Managing Tongue Weight 2021 Micro Minnie 2108DS

[RedRockEngr]

I have a 2021 Micro-Minnie 2108DS and am struggling with keeping the tongue weight within reasonable limits. I have 2 propane tanks and 2 lead acid batteries in the front.
I have a tongue weight limit of 740 lbs and just loading it without regard to front/back distribution we have a tongue weight of ~1,000 lbs. When I move everything heavy as far back in the trailer as possible I get to 720 lbs. I have plenty of payload left in the truck (2015 Dodge Durango R/T 5.7L V8 with Tow Package) and the trailer. Here are my numbers from the CAT Scale:

Tow vehicle GVWR: 7,100 lbs
Tow vehicle front axle GVWR: 3,200 lbs
Tow vehicle rear axle GVWR: 3,900 lbs
Tow vehicle GCWR: 14,500 lbs
Tow vehicle maximum TWR: 7,400 lbs
Tow vehicle gross tongue rating: 740 lbs

Truck only loaded for travel
Gross Tow Veh Weight: 5,660 lbs
Tow vehicle front axle: 2,800 lbs
Tow vehicle rear axle: 2,860 lbs

Truck loaded With WDH
Gross Tow Veh Weight: 6,320 lbs
Tow vehicle front axle: 2,740 lbs
Tow vehicle rear axle: 3,580 lbs
Trailer: 4,680 lbs
Tongue weight: 720 lbs

Truck only loaded W/O WD
Gross Tow Veh Weight: 6,400 lbs
Tow vehicle front axle: 2,500 lbs
Tow vehicle rear axle: 3,900 lbs
Trailer: 4,600 lbs
Tongue weight: 1,040 lbs

GCVW actual 11,000 lbs
Tongue weight 15% with WDH
Tongue weight 23% w/0 WDH

Most days I am fine with the way the setup handles, and then there are other days I just don't feel right. I'm looking for a bigger truck, but in the meantime, should I stick with loading everything I can in the shower in the back of the trailer? Should I stiffen up the WDH and try to transfer more load to the front wheels and the trailer wheels? I have an 800 lb capacity Reese with friction sway control.

[Marine359]

Hmmmm….You must be carrying gold ingots in the pass thru.
My 2108DS was right at 600# wet tongue weight. To stay right at 600#, we traveled with 1/2 tank fresh water. I put all my heavy stuff in the pass thru, and light stuff in truck bed. Plastic enclosed bedding and a bin in the shower. Bottled water under the dinette. The big difference, I suppose, is I put a 170ah LiFePo in the pass thru, removing the lead acid altogether. In place of tongue batteries, I mounted a narrow tool chest to carry ground tackle. This setup handled beautifully, towing with my Canyon.

Your tongue mounted lead acid batteries are killing you. Get rid of them and put one or more LiFePo4 in the pass thru, and all will be golden. And you’ll be much happier with the LFP anyway. One 100ah LFP equivilent to two marine deep cycle lead acid capacity-wise. If you have solar, or a dc to dc charger, you don’t need to change your controller. It’s possible that you may have a programmable converter/charger. You’ll have to check it.

When coupler is on the ball before engaging WDH, you should have no more than 2” squat and trailer should be level. If it isn’t, you need to move the ball up. When engaging the WDH, it should be very difficult to pry up the bars unless you first jack up the tongue. After WDH is engaged squat should be about 1”. Now, all is good.

[Bcborn]

Originally Posted by RedRockEngr

I have a 2021 Micro-Minnie 2108DS and am struggling with keeping the tongue weight within reasonable limits. I have 2 propane tanks and 2 lead acid batteries in the front.
I have a tongue weight limit of 740 lbs and just loading it without regard to front/back distribution we have a tongue weight of ~1,000 lbs. When I move everything heavy as far back in the trailer as possible I get to 720 lbs. I have plenty of payload left in the truck (2015 Dodge Durango R/T 5.7L V8 with Tow Package) and the trailer. Here are my numbers from the CAT Scale:

Tow vehicle GVWR: 7,100 lbs
Tow vehicle front axle GVWR: 3,200 lbs
Tow vehicle rear axle GVWR: 3,900 lbs
Tow vehicle GCWR: 14,500 lbs
Tow vehicle maximum TWR: 7,400 lbs
Tow vehicle gross tongue rating: 740 lbs

Truck only loaded for travel
Gross Tow Veh Weight: 5,660 lbs
Tow vehicle front axle: 2,800 lbs
Tow vehicle rear axle: 2,860 lbs

Truck loaded With WDH
Gross Tow Veh Weight: 6,320 lbs
Tow vehicle front axle: 2,740 lbs
Tow vehicle rear axle: 3,580 lbs
Trailer: 4,680 lbs
Tongue weight: 720 lbs

Truck only loaded W/O WD
Gross Tow Veh Weight: 6,400 lbs
Tow vehicle front axle: 2,500 lbs
Tow vehicle rear axle: 3,900 lbs
Trailer: 4,600 lbs
Tongue weight: 1,040 lbs

GCVW actual 11,000 lbs
Tongue weight 15% with WDH
Tongue weight 23% w/0 WDH

Most days I am fine with the way the setup handles, and then there are other days I just don't feel right. I'm looking for a bigger truck, but in the meantime, should I stick with loading everything I can in the shower in the back of the trailer? Should I stiffen up the WDH and try to transfer more load to the front wheels and the trailer wheels? I have an 800 lb capacity Reese with friction sway control.

As Jim mentioned my first question would relate to squat before equalization and where does everything sit after equalization.

Have you weighed the loaded trailer (I like to disconnect and place the trailer and trailer jack on one pad, the rear axles of the truck on the second pad and the front truck axles on the first pad). I have read you can place the trailer axles on the pad and disconnect the W/D and this will give you the trailer weight. I have not done this as I worry the supporting hitch might play a slight factor.

From the numbers above you have room to increase the tension on the W/D and move more weight to the front axles. You have room in the truck (rear axles) to move gear from the trailer to the box to take weight away from the trailer if it was to exceed the trailers GVWR (7000lbs), which your not even close. Adding tension to the W/D will transfer weight from the tongue to the trailer and truck, as noted above. You have room to do that, but make sure the tow vehicle ride heights measured at the tow vehicle wheel wells are near those measured before you started this exercise. Trailer frame should be level or lower in front when measured from the frame to the ground.

If trailer tongue is higher in front than in rear you will not like the feel and if the tow vehicle front is pointing to the sky or the rear of the truck bottomed out you wont like the feel. The front fender wheel well distance must be at least halfway back to the unloaded measurement with W/D engaged. I have mine within 1/8" of unloaded.

As Jim said, I too need to lift the connected trailer with the tongue jack to get the spring bars engaged. When completed, my truck and trailer are pretty much level front to rear.

[RedRockEngr]

Originally Posted by Marine359

Hmmmm….You must be carrying gold ingots in the pass thru.
My 2108DS was right at 600# wet tongue weight. To stay right at 600#, we traveled with 1/2 tank fresh water. I put all my heavy stuff in the pass thru, and light stuff in truck bed. Plastic enclosed bedding and a bin in the shower. Bottled water under the dinette. The big difference, I suppose, is I put a 170ah LiFePo in the pass thru, removing the lead acid altogether. In place of tongue batteries, I mounted a narrow tool chest to carry ground tackle. This setup handled beautifully, towing with my Canyon.

Your tongue mounted lead acid batteries are killing you. Get rid of them and put one or more LiFePo4 in the pass thru, and all will be golden. And you’ll be much happier with the LFP anyway. One 100ah LFP equivilent to two marine deep cycle lead acid capacity-wise. If you have solar, or a dc to dc charger, you don’t need to change your controller. It’s possible that you may have a programmable converter/charger. You’ll have to check it.

When coupler is on the ball before engaging WDH, you should have no more than 2” squat and trailer should be level. If it isn’t, you need to move the ball up. When engaging the WDH, it should be very difficult to pry up the bars unless you first jack up the tongue. After WDH is engaged squat should be about 1”. Now, all is good.

Marine359, thanks for the info on the LiFePo4 batteries, I will look into how that changes the weight and balance. If I'm moving and rewiring, I may as well see what happens if I move it all the way back to the bathroom in the back of the trailer.

The magnetic self-leveling shocks complicate the setup because as soon as you start driving down the road the back of the truck levels up and takes weight off of the WDH. I can see how it looks with and without the WDH engaged at least as a baseline. Good idea.

[RedRockEngr]

Originally Posted by Bcborn

As Jim mentioned my first question would relate to squat before equalization and where does everything sit after equalization.

Have you weighed the loaded trailer (I like to disconnect and place the trailer and trailer jack on one pad, the rear axles of the truck on the second pad and the front truck axles on the first pad). I have read you can place the trailer axles on the pad and disconnect the W/D and this will give you the trailer weight. I have not done this as I worry the supporting hitch might play a slight factor.

From the numbers above you have room to increase the tension on the W/D and move more weight to the front axles. You have room in the truck (rear axles) to move gear from the trailer to the box to take weight away from the trailer if it was to exceed the trailers GVWR (7000lbs), which your not even close. Adding tension to the W/D will transfer weight from the tongue to the trailer and truck, as noted above. You have room to do that, but make sure the tow vehicle ride heights measured at the tow vehicle wheel wells are near those measured before you started this exercise. Trailer frame should be level or lower in front when measured from the frame to the ground.

If trailer tongue is higher in front than in rear you will not like the feel and if the tow vehicle front is pointing to the sky or the rear of the truck bottomed out you wont like the feel. The front fender wheel well distance must be at least halfway back to the unloaded measurement with W/D engaged. I have mine within 1/8" of unloaded.

As Jim said, I too need to lift the connected trailer with the tongue jack to get the spring bars engaged. When completed, my truck and trailer are pretty much level front to rear.

Bcborn, thank you. I've measured the tongue weight both directly with a bathroom scale and a lever and on the CAT scales, they agree very well.

I too have to lift the ball to engage the WDH. I agree with your analysis, I have to unload the tingue some more. I don't want to exceed the 800 pound limit of the hitch either.

I will measure the wheel well distance to the ground, at least on the front this should be very informative. The magnetic self-leveling shocks complicate the setup because as soon as you start driving down the road the back of the truck levels up and takes weight off of the WDH. But measuring the front should be helpful.

Thanks, Pete

[Marine359]

Originally Posted by RedRockEngr

Marine359, thanks for the info on the LiFePo4 batteries, I will look into how that changes the weight and balance. If I'm moving and rewiring, I may as well see what happens if I move it all the way back to the bathroom in the back of the trailer.

2x marine deep cycles weigh over 120# almost all of it goes to tongue weight. One 100ah LiFePo4 weighs 30# and if mounted in pass through about 1/2 of that goes to tongue weight. So there is a 100# swing there. Note that mounting in pass through is so much easier because all the wiring is right there, just take the wires from tongue mount battery box and run them up through the wire loom in the pass thru that goes to the disconnect switch. I mounted mine in the space under the bedside cabinet, which mostly was unused anyway. Of course, I recommend that you install bus bars and a Bluetooth negative shunt battery monitor while you’re at it. Makes future mods much easier. Strap down the battery and you’re done. Moving it to the back of the trailer will be daunting. You’ll have to do all new wiring from there to the distribution panel, and then more wiring to redo the fuse box under the tongue. Not impossible, but Could get complicated without a wiring diagram from WBGO.

[RedRockEngr]

Marine359 "I recommend that you install bus bars and a Bluetooth negative shunt battery monitor"

Excellent advice to not move it further back, I do tend to complicate my projects. Also good points to look forward and make future updates easier.

[Marine359]

Originally Posted by RedRockEngr

Marine359 "I recommend that you install bus bars and a Bluetooth negative shunt battery monitor"

Excellent advice to not move it further back, I do tend to complicate my projects. Also good points to look forward and make future updates easier.

May help to take a peek at my photo album for mods:
https://www.winnieowners.com/forums/...albums376.html

[RedRockEngr]

Originally Posted by Marine359

May help to take a peek at my photo album for mods:
https://www.winnieowners.com/forums/...albums376.html

Marine359, you've done some serious work there. I have more questions, but I'll ask them elsewhere. I do see though that you have the old square handles on the cabinet in the bathroom. They have recalled those and have much nicer rounded handles. You may have gotten them replaced since the pictures were taken.

[Fasttimes]

Originally Posted by RedRockEngr

I have a 2021 Micro-Minnie 2108DS and am struggling with keeping the tongue weight within reasonable limits. I have 2 propane tanks and 2 lead acid batteries in the front.
I have a tongue weight limit of 740 lbs and just loading it without regard to front/back distribution we have a tongue weight of ~1,000 lbs. When I move everything heavy as far back in the trailer as possible I get to 720 lbs. I have plenty of payload left in the truck (2015 Dodge Durango R/T 5.7L V8 with Tow Package) and the trailer. Here are my numbers from the CAT Scale:

Tow vehicle GVWR: 7,100 lbs
Tow vehicle front axle GVWR: 3,200 lbs
Tow vehicle rear axle GVWR: 3,900 lbs
Tow vehicle GCWR: 14,500 lbs
Tow vehicle maximum TWR: 7,400 lbs
Tow vehicle gross tongue rating: 740 lbs

Truck only loaded for travel
Gross Tow Veh Weight: 5,660 lbs
Tow vehicle front axle: 2,800 lbs
Tow vehicle rear axle: 2,860 lbs

Truck loaded With WDH
Gross Tow Veh Weight: 6,320 lbs
Tow vehicle front axle: 2,740 lbs
Tow vehicle rear axle: 3,580 lbs
Trailer: 4,680 lbs
Tongue weight: 720 lbs

Truck only loaded W/O WD
Gross Tow Veh Weight: 6,400 lbs
Tow vehicle front axle: 2,500 lbs
Tow vehicle rear axle: 3,900 lbs
Trailer: 4,600 lbs
Tongue weight: 1,040 lbs

GCVW actual 11,000 lbs
Tongue weight 15% with WDH
Tongue weight 23% w/0 WDH

Most days I am fine with the way the setup handles, and then there are other days I just don't feel right. I'm looking for a bigger truck, but in the meantime, should I stick with loading everything I can in the shower in the back of the trailer? Should I stiffen up the WDH and try to transfer more load to the front wheels and the trailer wheels? I have an 800 lb capacity Reese with friction sway control.

Do you do a lot of boondocking? I put my trailer on a diet. One group 27 battery, one 20lb propane tank that's it. No need for the extra weight of the two 30lb tanks I had, nor a dual battery hook up. I also stopped storing heavy items in my front storage compartment. Tool box kit moved to storage in the rear bathroom. Camp chairs now ride over the rear axles under the dining table. Stopped bringing an extra camp table. Stopped bringing a heavyweight Coleman tailgater grill and just bring a cheap super light $30 propane grill from Amazon.

All this added up to considerable weight savings.

My trailers tongue weight on the sticker is 760. I generally have it around 800ish. My WDH is dialed in as well.