Electrical Issue 120VAC 2002 Journey 36GD Slide

[CharlesMoore]

2002 Journey WKP36GD with Main Slide 120 AC failure. We have had this coach 5 years and never had a failure like this. I had the 1200W heater plugged into the 120VAC plugin just aft of the dining table. Woke up to click noise on slide outlet and slight heated plastic smell. No power is on the table ac outlet now. Also , coffee pot outlet not working on its outlet.



1. I checked all AC circuit breakers all are ok but I cycled them too.

2. All other ac power appear working OK on front, rear & Stbd side of coach (kitchen side). Rear stateroom ac power is OK.
3. Port (driver side) Lavatory GFIC tested & reset. Power is present.

4. Stbd (passenger side) Kitchen Counter GFIC tested & reset. Power is present.



Is the slide table outlet a GFIC plug-in? Any other ideas as to what could be wrong?

[creativepart]

I would be concerned that you overheated the inside of the receptacle. A 1200w portable heater can draw a LOT of power.

Turn off all the power, and unscrew the faceplate to see if you see any melting. Do you by chance have a plug in outlet tester?

I assume you tested the heater in other outlets to see that the problem is not the electric heater.

https://www.amazon.com/Receptacle-El.../dp/B08QW7K1JJ

[bigb]

I agree with Creativepart. the pressed together mobile home receptacles used in RVs don't do well with continuous, high loads. Something likely came apart either in the outlet you were plugged into or one upstream of the daisy chain. Often you can find the location of the bad connection by plugging in a test lamp then plugging something into the recep and the others upstream, anything will work as you are going to use it for a "handle" to wiggle the outlets. Then go around wiggling all the outlets on the circuit, when the test lamp lights up or flickers you have found your bad connection without having to open all of them. The bad connection can even be in an outlet that still works on that circuit.

If the outlet is in a slide there will also be connectors that join the Romex onto the flexible SO cord, these can overheat and separate as well.

[Morich]

There are two versions of that year/model of RV, a 50 and 30 amp but this section appears to be near the same, but the load center may not match what you have, so okay to ignore the breaker location if not what you see.
Click these snips to get a better view!
I'm unsure of which outlet but they both seem to lead to the same 4X4 box, so maybe I don't need to know!!
For location?
This type drawing can get messy to read so I do not fully see the path but I think what you may need is here?

For details of what is in that 4X4 box:


And the way they draw it out on schematics:


It is a bit of luck that there are not many outlets strung out along the path but one outlet on each Romax and tied together in the $X4 box?? Check that guess before trusting!

I'm guessing it will be in the outlet and the wire is just laid into a set of contacts where they let the metal pierce the insulation. Quicker than stripping but a terrible connection!

[CharlesMoore]

Creative Part / bigb (Brian) / Morich (Richard)


Thanks so much gentlemen. We are a 50 A setup and bot5h phase are present. The heater was set to 900W over night. I measure wattage with a KiloWatt meter and it is reasonably accurate. I also always measure the plug temperature with an infrared Thermometer and the ambient room temperature was 71°F and the plug temperature was 93°F or less. This is the same temperatures for the last 3 years in the winter. I did not measure the temperature the day before the failure so the load could have changed.

I did take the receptacle out and it was not melted or burnt. I think both receptacles shown by Morich were correct: one receptacle at the dinette and one overhead (for the permanent coffee maker installation). Both are unpowered still. I see the square box but it is behind the couch and almost impossible to access but is helpful to lay the couch down as far as ours will move. I have a lot of work to do. Does this receptacle have a GFI installed?

Still no resolution but I have more work to do on the subject. All your time is appreciated - Thank you. I will try to update this thread as I learn more.

[Morich]

Okay, slightly different drawing, so best to look if going further than what I posted. One biggie is the breaker will be different location and may be easier to recheck than getting to the couch box?
This drawing and sheet 3 is for the 50 amp that seems to match what you are seeing. https://www.winnebago.com/Files/File...ire_139438.pdf



Spot the color marked on the drawings at the load center? Those should also be labeled on Romax every three inches, so if you get into a bunch of them, checking the labels and matching for which breaker can assure you are turning off the correct one before too much work with the wire!
In this case, the smell makes us think it was near the outlet but if it was the breaker, it may be bad and may be easier to check at one of the other boxes along the path?
No GFCI on this specific leg, but several others in RV!

Can you get to the box in linen cabinet of compartment easier than behind the couch? Might look at that option or check the breaker for sure is good?

Not to point fingers, but you're not getting caught using the heater to test and it is really the thing that's gone bad?

I once worked for Charlie Moore and he said to look for the easy way!!

[CharlesMoore]

Morich, this diagram seems to fit better but not exact: I'll check for more details but my AC panel is left to right is 20, 50+50,20,30,15,20,20 pls two blanks

[Morich]

More details to consider! Sounds like you might be most close to the drawing on sheet 4?
Do you have a stand alone inverter breaker panel?
https://www.winnebago.com/Files/File...ire_139438.pdf

Maybe closer to this? Extra slots not shown and only one GFCI?
Looks like the same route to check but coming off the main load center to a second panel and then the same route to the suspect outlets.

ALL RV are not the same!!

[CharlesMoore]

We are stationary near my son's home in College Station, TX for the next month. Cannot do much work this weekend due to family obligations. However, no matter what it is difficult to access the square box behind the couch. I have not found any other junction boxes YET. This thread is still considered active by myself. More to come in next few days. Thanks for all.

[jerichorick]

Originally Posted by CharlesMoore

2002 Journey WKP36GD with Main Slide 120 AC failure. We have had this coach 5 years and never had a failure like this. I had the 1200W heater plugged into the 120VAC plugin just aft of the dining table. Woke up to click noise on slide outlet and slight heated plastic smell. No power is on the table ac outlet now. Also , coffee pot outlet not working on its outlet.



1. I checked all AC circuit breakers all are ok but I cycled them too.

2. All other ac power appear working OK on front, rear & Stbd side of coach (kitchen side). Rear stateroom ac power is OK.
3. Port (driver side) Lavatory GFIC tested & reset. Power is present.

4. Stbd (passenger side) Kitchen Counter GFIC tested & reset. Power is present.



Is the slide table outlet a GFIC plug-in? Any other ideas as to what could be wrong?

I had the outlet behind my microwave fail. Here is a link that gives a good view of what can happen and how to fix it: https://www.bing.com/videos/rivervie...1253&FORM=VIRE
Outlets are mechanical. The contacts stress out over time with heavy use. Also the quality is not always great. Try replacing the outlet first. The replacement will probably be made to a higher standard. If the replacement doesn't work then dig in deeper.
Rick

[CharlesMoore]

Thanks for your response to my issue.


1. I did check the receptacle and took the back off so I could see inside. Everything looked normal and there was no sign of melting or discoloration.

2. The receptacle is mounted in the wall of the slide and is so thin that Winnebago added a 3/4"+ wood plate to increase depth. Therefore adding more depth for a receptacle box is not really feasible.
3. I will order a replacement receptacle at some point but feel this is not the issue since two non working outlets exist.
4. using a non-contact voltage tester there is no voltage at either coffee pot outlet nor the wall outlet but there is voltage at two other junction boxes associated with these two outlets.
5. Based on elimination, it appears as if the square junction box behind the sofa may be indicated as a failure point. Unless you have very long arms and are relatively thin it is extremely difficult to access this box. I have neither long arms nor am I thin, so it will necessitate moving the sofa away from the wall ( this is not easy as it is bolted down).
6. Since I will be leaving this area in a few weeks, I will wait to tackle the sofa issue until I arrive at my February over-winter location so I am not pushed for time.

[CharlesMoore]

Thanks for your response to my issue.


1. I did check the receptacle and took the back off so I could see inside. Everything looked normal and there was no sign of melting or discoloration.

2. The receptacle is mounted in the wall of the slide and is so thin that Winnebago added a 3/4"+ wood plate to increase depth. Therefore adding more depth for a receptacle box is not really feasible.
3. I will order a replacement receptacle at some point but feel this is not the issue since two non working outlets exist.
4. using a non-contact voltage tester there is no voltage at either coffee pot outlet nor the wall outlet but there is voltage at two other junction boxes associated with these two outlets.
5. Based on elimination, it appears as if the square junction box behind the sofa may be indicated as a failure point. Unless you have very long arms and are relatively thin it is extremely difficult to access this box. I have neither long arms nor am I thin, so it will necessitate moving the sofa away from the wall ( this is not easy as it is bolted down).
6. Since I will be leaving this area in a few weeks, I will wait to tackle the sofa issue until I arrive at my February over-winter location so I am not pushed for time.

[Morich]

Not wanting to press the issue on when and what you do but when I look at this, there seems to be some info missing or I'm not understanding!!!
Open to either being true!
But I am seeing what I 'feel" is a second box besides the one behind the couch.
When I look at the installation drawings, which are more line diagram of the physical location of electrical parts, there seems to be something missing that doesn't quite match the other parts of the drawings??
They use dashed lines and those lines look a lot like the dashed lines they use to show furniture like the dinette. Not quite the same line but gets really messy really quickly!

So I find a what appears to be a line for electrical wire that drops from the box behind the couch to a spot under the floor but has nothing on it?
Wonder if a guy who got really bored would want to look in the compartment just below the couch for a 4X4 box there? Maybe it is mounted high and on the inside of the outer wall where we would have to nearly crawl in to spot the box?

If I have the floorline marked in black correct, I might think there is a box both above and behind the couch as well as one under the floor in the compartment!

No pressure from me to check or fix but I thought this might be a "missing link" and could be critical to finding the problem!

I have a deal where folks call me intermittently and I do this sort of chase, make suggestions and then it pays for me to wait while they drive out somewhere in the boonies to check to see if my guess is right!!

So bottom line is that I spend lots of time waiting and you folks provide me with mental exercise during coffee breaks which may last minutes or hours!

[CharlesMoore]

Richard, Yes there is a second box. It looks like the square box A (behind the couch ) makes a 90° turn and goes straight through the floor ( in a not elegant manner ) immediately behind the driver side forward bin. It then follows the bracing across the coach to the passenger side through a hole directly into a galvanized box that is in the far forward corner in the passenger forward bin. from this box it joins a wire bundle that looks like it heads rearward. I will try to add a url for some pictures: Journey 36GD pics re: slide issue

[Ray,IN]

Keep in mind if there is just one GFCI receptacle in a circuit, it is usually the closest one to the main breaker panel, and it protects every receptacle downstream as well..
So, start at the main panel, make sure that breaker is actually on and passing power; then continue to follow that circuit, testing each receptacle as you trace it to the end.
A non-contact voltage tester is great for this test.

[jerichorick]

Originally Posted by CharlesMoore

Thanks for your response to my issue.


1. I did check the receptacle and took the back off so I could see inside. Everything looked normal and there was no sign of melting or discoloration.

2. The receptacle is mounted in the wall of the slide and is so thin that Winnebago added a 3/4"+ wood plate to increase depth. Therefore adding more depth for a receptacle box is not really feasible.
3. I will order a replacement receptacle at some point but feel this is not the issue since two non working outlets exist.
4. using a non-contact voltage tester there is no voltage at either coffee pot outlet nor the wall outlet but there is voltage at two other junction boxes associated with these two outlets.
5. Based on elimination, it appears as if the square junction box behind the sofa may be indicated as a failure point. Unless you have very long arms and are relatively thin it is extremely difficult to access this box. I have neither long arms nor am I thin, so it will necessitate moving the sofa away from the wall ( this is not easy as it is bolted down).
6. Since I will be leaving this area in a few weeks, I will wait to tackle the sofa issue until I arrive at my February over-winter location so I am not pushed for time.

Have you been using the Winnebago resources center to look up you wiring diagrams? Here is your 120V installation diagram: https://www.winnebago.com/Files/File...ire_137994.pdf
I think you will find removing the couch is not as hard as you might think. See if you can gain access to the floor under the couch. Usually there are a few bolts through the frame into the floor. Once removed the couch can be pulled out. (Good time to clean that hard to reach area.)
Your troubleshooting logic is solid. I think you are on the right track. I look forward to seeing the fix. I think replacing the outlet is a wast of time from what you have published so far. No voltage on the back of the outlet is a big flag.
Rick

[Morich]

Sorry about my slow response to your last post. It seems my posts show for a bit and then disappear??

[Morich]

What I think we are finding is that the drawings are helpful but not always fully correct? There seems to be indications of the wire going through the floor behind the couch but then they leave off where and how the second box is located.
If you find it wire going down and across under the floor, I would have to go with that as they seem to have just shown wire going down and left open !

Disclaimer?
Go with what you see in person as my drawings are not always correct!

I might pass along some info on how the Winnebago romax wiring is labeled for ID as it could help if trying to sort them.
This site and down about 8 pages for full info:
https://www.winnebago.com/Files/File...agram/Help.pdf
You may be dealing only with the white Romex but knowing where to look for labels may help? Labeled every three inches sounds good if you do have to get into that bundle of wires!

Click for better view or go direct for full big picture!


Use of this Romex, how long the wire in MM, and then direction of current flow?? I assume that would mean left being power source and going to the field to the right? I've not needed to deal with the current flow marking, so untested info!

[Jim_HiTek]

I have the twin to your RV. I didn't read all the posts.

In my LR slide, the power comes from an umbilical cable strapped under the slide on an articulated steel channel, near the front of the slide (drivers side) comes up to inside the wall behind the couch. There's a steel 4 square electrical box there. I would pull the couch (4 bolt to the floor) and check voltage there. If it's not there, then it's from the source, CB? from the power panel in the bedroom. And of course the entire run should be checked if there's no voltage at the 4-square.

What I do is set my floor heater to LO when it's on that side of the RV and so far, after 8 years, works fine. Also have my computers and assundry electronic devices on it. Probably running 5 amp max. As others have said, never plug in a floor heater in a slide and set it on high. Better to have 3 small heaters all set on LO.

That umbilical has been exposed to road salts in the past and the occasional foul weather when driving and I've had to zip tie the cable to the channel, but the electrical, 12V and 120V, is still working fine after 21 years since the RV was manufactured.

[tim myers]

[QUOTE=

That umbilical has been exposed to road salts in the past and the occasional foul weather when driving and I've had to zip tie the cable to the channel, but the electrical, 12V and 120V, is still working fine after 21 years since the RV was manufactured.[/QUOTE]


Wow, 21 years, I have a 2007 Journey, really happy to be back in the Winnebago Camp again.