2000 watt inverter

[AJMike]

I have been thinking about replacing the 1000 watt inverter that came with our Fuse with a 2000 watt inverter. That would give us the ability to run the microwave without running the generator when we are dry camping and that seems like a worthwhile thing to be able to do.

I started looking for a 2000 watt pure sine wave inverter on Amazon and realized that I did not know what brands were worth getting. I don't want garbage and, of course, I don't want to spend a lot of money if I don't have to so I thought I would ask for recommendations. Has anyone done this (upgraded your inverter)? And, if so and if you are happy with the new inverter, what brand did you buy?

[creativepart]

The major brands that I would look at are Magnum, Xantrex, Renergy and Victron. Another brand I've heard of but have no opinion of is Aims.

[DavidM]

This is my experience from the boating world:

Xantrex- used to be great when they were Freedom, now just ok.
Victron- first class
Magnum- ditto, offshoot from Freedom years ago.
Mastervolt- ditto

Be sure and upgrade the wire size and fusing at the battery if you go bigger.

David

[AJMike]

Originally Posted by DavidM

Be sure and upgrade the wire size and fusing at the battery if you go bigger.

Yes. I would not want to forgot to do that.

[Winterbagoal]

If you got the CSW1012 Magnum inverter from the factory (like I did), why not just upsize to the Magnum CSW2012 2000W model? You can probably swap it in place, and reuse the monitor and on/off remote control from the 1000W model. Or not??
https://www.invertersupply.com/index...oducts_id=6101

[AJMike]

Originally Posted by Winterbagoal

If you got the CSW1012 Magnum inverter from the factory (like I did), why not just upsize to the Magnum CSW2012 2000W model? You can probably swap it in place, and reuse the monitor and on/off remote control from the 1000W model. Or not??
https://www.invertersupply.com/index...oducts_id=6101

Thanks for the link. That is more than $200 less than on Amazon.

I wonder if the existing wired connection for the remote on/off switch would work on the 2000 watt version as well. If so that would seem to be the simplest upgrade.

[rx4fishing]

I am certainly not at expert, but if your microwave does not work with the 1000w inverter, just changing to a 2000w inverter will not make the microwave operate. The microwave would have to be wired in the inverter circuit for that to happen I believe.

[AJMike]

Originally Posted by rx4fishing

I am certainly not at expert, but if your microwave does not work with the 1000w inverter, just changing to a 2000w inverter will not make the microwave operate. The microwave would have to be wired in the inverter circuit for that to happen I believe.

The outlet for the microwave does not get power from the inverter, so in that sense you are right.

In our RV only 3 outlets get power from the inverter, the front TV, the rear TV and a single outlet in the bedroom. So, to solve the problem, I have run an extension cord from the inverter to the kitchen area and we use that to power the electric tea kettle and the toaster. I would just plug the microwave into it to power it. Of course I can only run one appliance at a time now.

I may solve the extension cord problem by running an electric line from the inverter to the kitchen area if I can figure out how to run the wire so as to not be visible and in the way but for the moment the extension cord works well enough and I keep it from being underfoot by running it underneath the rug that we use on the RV floor.

[CharlesMoore]

A 2KW inverter takes 167A from your battery. How many house 100AH batteries do you have? How big are the cables (4ga or larger)? If you only run the microwave for a few minutes it is ok if the cables are big enough to handle the load. I have a boat with 2KW inverter and 400 AH worth of batteries. In theory, I have 1 hour of microwave use plus normal household use for one day. I am at the lead acid limit of 50% in one single day ±.

[JoeC]

In short. Your entire electrical needs to be reengineered and or checked. You need to balance your equipment with your NEEDS. Not the other way around. Bigger load means bigger cables, more battery capacity, more charge capacity, including solar if present. The best way to shoot yourself in the foot (and probably paying more money in the long run) is looking at one component at a time. If I've posted this theme once, I've done it a hundred times. Please read up on this stuff before you act.

[AJMike]

Originally Posted by CharlesMoore

A 2KW inverter takes 167A from your battery. How many house 100AH batteries do you have? How big are the cables (4ga or larger)? If you only run the microwave for a few minutes it is ok if the cables are big enough to handle the load. I have a boat with 2KW inverter and 400 AH worth of batteries. In theory, I have 1 hour of microwave use plus normal household use for one day. I am at the lead acid limit of 50% in one single day ±.

I am talking about using the microwave for very short times - often for 1 or 2 minutes - to defrost something or warm something up and, at the most, for perhaps 5 minutes. I am not talking about using it for an hour.

Even at your figure of 167 amps 5 minutes of use is 167/12 = about 14 amps and that seems more than reasonable considering 200 AH of battery power and the fact that we have 300 watts of solar, we don't boondock for extender periods of time without traveling between sites and having the ability to recharge the batteries.

[AJMike]

Originally Posted by JoeC

Bigger load means bigger cables, more battery capacity, more charge capacity, including solar if present. The best way to shoot yourself in the foot (and probably paying more money in the long run) is looking at one component at a time. If I've posted this theme once, I've done it a hundred times. Please read up on this stuff before you act.

Yes, of course. A larger inverter would mean upgrading the wiring but short use of the microwave should still be OK with a standard 15 amp extension cord. Provided we don't use the microwave for anything other than short periods and provided we don't try to run appliances simultaneously I would not think this would be a problem.

As it is now we run some small fans off of the inverter, a 700 watt electric tea kettle and a 900 watt toaster, but at separate times. That is, we never try to run the tea kettle and the toaster together and the fans draw little current - something less than 1/2 amp. We have not had any issues with running those small appliances while boondocking and always ended up with full batteries when we got to our next camping site. I would not think that the microwave, if I do this, would add much to the existing electrical burden.

If that is wrong I would appreciate knowing about it.

[CharlesMoore]

Taking a broad brush, an electric kettle and a 900±W microwave will both use approximately 1200W of 120VAC power. Generally speaking, both should be usable, one at a time, on the Xantrex 2000 for limited inverter periods but 100Amps from the battery is going to stress the whole system.



To be perfectly honest, every time the cook used the microwave on our boat's 2K Heart Freedom (Xantrex) Inverter I cringed and was at high alert for issues. This unit is the old big black box and is physically the same unit as in our Winnebago RV (Heart 1500). These are very reliable nearly bulletproof Inverter/Chargers and can be repaired for the most part.

[Winterbagoal]

Both AJMike and I have 2 X LiFePO4 100Ah batteries in our current banks. Our batteries can withstand deeper discharge than FLA, they recharge faster than FLA, and they have many more cycles in their lifespan with those two advantages taken into consideration. Their discharge voltages are more consistent during use, which would also be an advantage for a high current draw like a M/W, or a tea kettle, or a mechanical/electric motor.
Does that clear up any confusion about why he wants to do what he proposes?

AJMike: I asked Inverter Supply whether the CSW1012 and CSW2012 on/off remote switches are the same, and they said yes. They recommended either 0 AWG or 1/0 AWG cable for a run under 6 feet between batteries and inverter.

[HappiHenri]

There are a number of quality brands - GoPower,Victron, Magnum, etc.. Have heard that some of the models which Harbor Freight carries have worked well.

BUT - what is you battery capacity??? No point in upgrading if your batteries cannot support the amperage load. We have 400aH of Lithium batteries which powers our inverter & microwave just fine - but when running it pulls a lot of amps. If your battery voltage then drops too much inverters will automatically shut off to protect themselves.

I Know this because I have a Victron 712 Battery meter which tells all that - strongly suggest you get one of these as well. Also - if you pul more amps from your batteries how will you re-charge them?? Solar? Generator? Shore power?

[AJMike]

Originally Posted by CharlesMoore

Taking a broad brush, an electric kettle and a 900±W microwave will both use approximately 1200W of 120VAC power. Generally speaking, both should be usable, one at a time, on the Xantrex 2000 for limited inverter periods but 100Amps from the battery is going to stress the whole system.

The tea kettle is 700 watts, but it only runs for about 5 minutes so it only consumes about 60 watts. I have checked the power usage with the Victron Battery Monitor and it turns out to be about 5AH. My assumption is that the microwave, at about twice the power, would use about twice the amps so I am talking about using perhaps 20AH (tea kettle 3 times a day, microwave for 5 minutes 1 time a day). If I thought I was going to use 100AH with those 2 small appliances I would not use them.

[AJMike]

Originally Posted by Winterbagoal

AJMike: I asked Inverter Supply whether the CSW1012 and CSW2012 on/off remote switches are the same, and they said yes. They recommended either 0 AWG or 1/0 AWG cable for a run under 6 feet between batteries and inverter.

Thanks for the information.

The guy who did the initial installation appears to have left me with several issues. The wiring is probably 10 feet and should be 4 gauge, based on the tables. He did run 4 gauge from the starter battery to the connection block, but then used 6 gauge for the wiring to the charger and used a MAXI fuse holder with only 8 gauge wire. I am not an electrician but I assume when the table specifies 4 gauge wire it means for the entire length of the connection, regardless of connection blocks used. If that is wrong then my assumptions are wrong and it would be helpful if someone told me.

Anyway I had someone give me an estimate for upgrading the wire to 4 gauge for the entire length, and to replace the fuse holders, and while he was there I asked for an estimate for upgrading the inverter wiring. He suggested 2 gauge but perhaps I need something bigger than that. It is good to know that the remote switch will work with the larger inverter as well.

[AJMike]

Originally Posted by HappiHenri

There are a number of quality brands - GoPower,Victron, Magnum, etc.. Have heard that some of the models which Harbor Freight carries have worked well.

BUT - what is you battery capacity??? No point in upgrading if your batteries cannot support the amperage load. We have 400aH of Lithium batteries which powers our inverter & microwave just fine - but when running it pulls a lot of amps. If your battery voltage then drops too much inverters will automatically shut off to protect themselves.

I Know this because I have a Victron 712 Battery meter which tells all that - strongly suggest you get one of these as well. Also - if you pul more amps from your batteries how will you re-charge them?? Solar? Generator? Shore power?

I have 2 100AH Battle Born Lithium batteries so I expect that they could handle short use of the microwave (and I stress "short"). As it is my wife uses her kea kettle 3 times a day - breakfast, lunch and supper - and the toaster once a day for breakfast. She does not like the microwave and prefers to cook stuff on the stove top, but some things really need the microwave so it is something I am thinking about.

I also have a Victron 712 and that is why I know how much power the tea kettle and toaster are using. About 5 AH for the tea kettle and about the same for the toaster. As for recharging, we have 300 watts of solar and on a good sunny day that gives us somewhere north of 100AH if we stay in the sun in the summer. About half of that if we stay in the shade.

We also generally only dry camp for one or two days so we are then traveling from one place to another and the DC-DC charger usually has more than enough time to fully charge the batteries, even without the solar.

[CharlesMoore]

Originally Posted by AJMike

The tea kettle is 700 watts, but it only runs for about 5 minutes so it only consumes about 60 watts. I have checked the power usage with the Victron Battery Monitor and it turns out to be about 5AH. My assumption is that the microwave, at about twice the power, would use about twice the amps so I am talking about using perhaps 20AH (tea kettle 3 times a day, microwave for 5 minutes 1 time a day). If I thought I was going to use 100AH with those 2 small appliances I would not use them.

Just for clarification - the 100A was just that - 100A coming from the battery for what ever time the unit was active. This was based on 1200 Watts @ 120 VAC equals 10 Amps. This equates to, in battery terms, 1200 Watts @ 12 VDC equals 100 Amps. The stress is taking out 100Amps from the FLA. I apologize for not reading (LiFePO ₄) Battle Born batteries. Lithium changes everything! Pulling 100A from a 1C lithium battery is childs play so to speak. Also, a big point when using the Freedom 2000 with lithium is the charging current of 100+ Amps. Lithium takes a charge much better than FLA. I believe the Xantrex Freedom XC 2000 has a specific Lithium charge curve and that makes it even better. I have said enough and my contribution is in doubt. Cheers - If I could delete my comments I would since I muddied the waters.

[jimkamery]

Originally Posted by AJMike

I am talking about using the microwave for very short times - often for 1 or 2 minutes - to defrost something or warm something up and, at the most, for perhaps 5 minutes. I am not talking about using it for an hour.

Even at your figure of 167 amps 5 minutes of use is 167/12 = about 14 amps and that seems more than reasonable considering 200 AH of battery power and the fact that we have 300 watts of solar, we don't boondock for extender periods of time without traveling between sites and having the ability to recharge the batteries.

AJ, not sure your electrical theory is correct. A normal high power microwave is 1100 watts which is 9.2 amps on the 120V side, no matter how short of a time it is running for. Assuming 13.2V from the batteries, you will draw 83.3 amps from the batteries for however long the microwave is running. Most people in this thread are calling for 4AWG wire and that seems a little small to me unless the distance is very short. I have a 1200W PSW invertor 3' from my batteries and ran 4AWG wire for the 12V power. I run my residential refrigerator on it and have installed an accessory 120V plug on the kitchen wall that is available for making a cup of coffee or another small appliance use if needed.