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08-07-2007, 04:09 AM
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#21
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I helped | retired moderator
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Newark, DE
Posts: 285
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I think Newmar is now equipping the Comfort Drive on the Dutch Star and maybe the Kountry Star </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Starting with the '08 models, Newmar has Comfort Drive on ALL diesel pushers.
The '07 models had Comfort Drive on Mountain Aire and above. I missed out.
__________________
Adios, Dirk - '84 Real Lite Truck Camper, '86 Wilderness Cimarron TT, previously 4 years as a fulltimer in a '07 DSDP
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08-07-2007, 05:35 PM
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#22
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Winnie-Wise
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Vancouver, Washington
Posts: 383
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You would think Winnie would hold some kind of product development forum that at least includes senior WIT officers from around the country for 'user' feedback before they make a lame decision like this. They could always use a non-disclosure agreement approach to keep the trade secrets in-house.
I guess the proof will be in the sales which I suspect will be soft for 2008 anyway due to both supply problems and a certain avoidance to be an early adopter of 2007 DP emissions.
__________________
Vicki & Jon Pritchard
05 Journey 34H - CAT C7 - Toyota RAV4
3 doxies, 1 chihuahua - WIT, Escapees, FMCA
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10-10-2007, 07:09 PM
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#23
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Winnebago Owner
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 193
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I have also noted the air intake on the 2008 not to be close to the roof line, but down behind the left duals. I have a 99, with that side location, and a dusty road can plug the filter quickly with that pickup behind the duals.
Was there a problem with the air pickup on the back corner.
__________________
2008 Winnebago Vectra 40TD
1999-2008 traded in Suncruiser 90,000 miles
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10-11-2007, 12:40 AM
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#24
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Winnebago Owner
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Frederick Md.
Posts: 89
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I drove the Tour and Vectra. Loved the floor plans but the side Radiator made me LOOK.. I drove many Tiffen,Newmar, Monaco, Even a Fred. We ended up buying a Monaco. I loved my winny buy when you want a higher end product.. Winny is far behind in many areas. I hope it changed as I enjoyed our WIT group and would have loved to buy a Vectra. But for the price the quality is not there.
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2007 Monaco Camelot 40 PAQ
2007 JK 4Door Jeep
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10-11-2007, 03:10 AM
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#25
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Winnebago Master
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Back at the ranch
Posts: 2,041
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Randy Martin:
I have also noted the air intake on the 2008 not to be close to the roof line, but down behind the left duals. I have a 99, with that side location, and a dusty road can plug the filter quickly with that pickup behind the duals.
Was there a problem with the air pickup on the back corner. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Surprisingly, our filter was only 50% packed up according to the gauge when we returned from Alaska and this was with about 20K miles already on the filter before we left for up there. My brother-in-law's 2007 Dutch Star (Spartan/ISL) has a well designed engine area. His filter is more easily accessible than mine.
UPS34 - very glad you are happy with your choice. I think Monaco makes a fine product. We toured their Elkhart plant this summer where they make the lower-end models and they seem to have a decent manufacturing process.
However, based on what I observed then and when coach shopping, there is no way in the world I would claim Monaco is better quality than Winnie, ____ or fill in the blank. I'm sure Monaco does well in certain attributes and maybe not as well in others. Also, experience with a particular coach could be a disaster as some have reported, or a delight as others usually DON'T report.
Monaco was never on my "A" list when shopping because NONE of their models offered IFS.
Bottom line for my opinion - Monaco makes a good product. Winnie makes a good product. Tiffen makes a good product. Travel Supreme makes a good product. Newmar makes a good product....... I'm very happy with my Horizon.
__________________
--John
2005 Horizon 40AD, 2005 Jeep Liberty CRD
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10-11-2007, 04:04 AM
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#26
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Winnebago Owner
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Frederick Md.
Posts: 89
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John:
I Think the 05 and 07 are Different. I don't think for the most part Better. I did also want IFS but after driving the 8 air bag system not sure IFS would do anything to improve the handleing and ride. I also was at the Factory in Indiana. I went to almost all of them. Winny makes a good product. But lacks in the handleing,steering and woodwork. Love the space on the new improved frame but not with a side radiator. If I had an 05 Vectra I would still have it. I went up from a Journey. 04 ..
__________________
2007 Monaco Camelot 40 PAQ
2007 JK 4Door Jeep
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10-11-2007, 04:10 AM
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#27
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Winnie-Wise
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Sheboygan, WI
Posts: 306
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I'm pretty sure that Winnebago had little to say about the radiator placement. Freightliner chose that for the new Maxxum chassis. FL had a number of issues with cooling on the side radiator XC chassis with the 400 ISL engine on many brands of coaches. Basically, it was too small. It had 1,050 sq in of area and the CAC, radiator, and engine oil cooler are all stacked in front of each other so that the CAC preheats the radiator ratherthan getting it cool clean air. Just for refernce, Spartan uses a 1,326 sq in radiator and everything is stacked vertically so that it all gets cool air. My 2004 Allegro Bus with 400 ISL had "issues" in hot temps when climbing serious grades on the Freightliner. My 2007 Bus with 400 ISL (tag axle - 10,000 lbs heavier) is on a Spartan and the temp gauge never even thinks about getting close to overheating.
FL knew they had a problem regarding cooling. From what I've heard, FL went to the larger rear radiator and added dual fans to improve their cooling. In that aspect, it's a good thing but it would have been better if they would have just improved their side radiator cooling package. Like many of the previous posts, I too would not consider a rear radiator. I love my side radiator for all of the reasons previously mentioned.
As to picking up 1 MPG just by moving the radiator - if you buy that, I have a bridge I'd like to sell you.
It's true that hydraulic systems require horsepower to operate. However, so do mechanical fan drives. Whenever the fan is turning, it'll consume horsepower regardless of the fan drive system. The difference is that when it's not turning, a mechanical system consumes zero HP while a hydraulic system still consumes power. But, this is a minimal amount of power because the oil is pumped in bypass mode and is not under pressure. Think of an air compressor that labors near it's peak RPM. Then think of that same air compressor that has zero PSI in the tank and an open valve. You can hear the difference in how hard the motor works. The same holds true for a hydraulic pump.
The Allegro Bus now is offered on 3 chassis - Freightliner, Spartan, or Tiffin's own Powerglide chassis. Virtually no one is buying the Freightliner version. The Spartan is the hot ticket but Tiffin's Powerglide, which is new, is coming on strong. One thing they have done is gone to a 1,200 sq in side radiator but added a mechanical drive, similar to the system that Spartan uses on the K2 chassis with 500 ISM engine. They do claim an increase in fuel economy but it's not the 1 MPG claim. ACtually, tests have shown that 1 MPG is the difference between a 100% full time mechanical fan versus a mechanical fan with the thermostatic clutch. If you are comparing a mechanical fan clutch system to a hydraulic system the best you're going to see is a tenth or two of a mile per gallon, depending on how hot the ambient temperature is.
__________________
Mark & Leann Quasius
2016 Cornerstone 45A
2007 Allegro Bus 42QRP (Sold)
2012 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited - Rubicon
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10-11-2007, 05:49 PM
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#28
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Winnebago Master
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Northern Oklahoma
Posts: 871
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Without a side radiator that certainly takes Winnebago off my future shopping list. Glad to know this ahead of time.
Wagonmaster2
2004 Meridian 36G
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08-25-2008, 07:10 PM
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#29
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Winnie-Wise
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Vancouver, Washington
Posts: 383
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I just received an email (a year after the question) with a response from Freightliner Customer Chassis as the as to why Winnebago switched to rear radiator on Vectra/Horizon.
There are some valid reasons for Winnebago's switch from side radiators to rear radiators. The technical reason is that with the implementation of the EPA 2007 engines, FCCC released "As standard equipment" a fan clutch on all rear radiator cooling systems. So the fuel economy and performance benefits of disengaging the that fan when full cooling capability is not required. The side radiator cooling systems that FCCC has provided have always been a variable speed fan that is controlled by the engine computer. So now the benefits of a side radiator verses rear radiator are negligible and it becomes more of a cost savings opportunity.
Thanks,
Tony Sippel - FCCC RV Account Manager
__________________
Vicki & Jon Pritchard
05 Journey 34H - CAT C7 - Toyota RAV4
3 doxies, 1 chihuahua - WIT, Escapees, FMCA
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08-26-2008, 02:31 AM
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#30
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I helped | retired moderator
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Newark, DE
Posts: 285
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">it becomes more of a cost savings opportunity. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
At the expense of convenient engine access.
__________________
Adios, Dirk - '84 Real Lite Truck Camper, '86 Wilderness Cimarron TT, previously 4 years as a fulltimer in a '07 DSDP
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08-26-2008, 03:35 AM
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#31
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Winnebago Master
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Back at the ranch
Posts: 2,041
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Route 66:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">it becomes more of a cost savings opportunity. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
At the expense of convenient engine access. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Exactly!
__________________
--John
2005 Horizon 40AD, 2005 Jeep Liberty CRD
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