How to: Exceeding Hitch Limit on a 2019 Sunstar 29Ve

[dkoldman]

FYI, I received the new Hitch today. I believe I can see right away why it is going to be stronger and rated for 10,000lbs although I only need 6240lbs.

1. It does not mount on the extension of the frame from Ford's F-53 Chassis where the existing frame mounts today. It will actually go on the Ford F-53 OEM frame
2. To remove the OEM hitch; looks like some welding of OEM's hitch side to extension frame will have to removed in addition to the removal of the 6 bolts.
3. It will require 6 new holes drilled into the Ford F-53 frame (so confirmation I cannot do myself)
4. While the new Curt hitch is definitely welded solid and coated very good for rust, I may gain some weight relief when/if the OEM hitch is removed, I am guessing 30 - 40 lbs due to the side fenders on the OEM hitch.
5. It also looks as if the new hitch receiver will be about 2 - 3 inches lower than OEM, and that is good news just from my experience towing trailers and dollies with the RV. It may also reduce the need of me having to buy a receiver adaptor to get the two bar closer in line with the Navigator.

Problem I have now is finding someone who can do. The Installers they give you on the websites like Curt or e-trailer are useless. You call them and have to take 10 minutes before they even know what a baseplate or Curt hitch is. One guy asked "why would I want to take my hitch off if I already have one."

[1237dmctlc]

I always get a kick out of rationales why you can tow over mfg. Specs. Also those that have done but in the end if you get into an accident and it's found you were overloaded. None of this will help you because it boils down to what was OEM and what WBGO states on their plate. Those that preach there's safety margins built in doesn't mean you know what they are and in the end it doesn't matter. Be safe stay within the specifications of your vehicles not just for your family but others on the road that you might cross paths with. These forums IMHO aren't for bending the rules but helping those truly in need and have the desire to learn. Ironically I would've thought the first step would've been to weigh the toad. Dealer weights never seem to be accurate because options can add weight to base gvwr.

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by 1237dmctlc

I always get a kick out of rationales why you can tow over mfg. Specs. Also those that have done but in the end if you get into an accident and it's found you were overloaded. None of this will help you because it boils down to what was OEM and what WBGO states on their plate. Those that preach there's safety margins built in doesn't mean you know what they are and in the end it doesn't matter. Be safe stay within the specifications of your vehicles not just for your family but others on the road that you might cross paths with. These forums IMHO aren't for bending the rules but helping those truly in need and have the desire to learn. Ironically I would've thought the first step would've been to weigh the toad. Dealer weights never seem to be accurate because options can add weight to base gvwr.

You do realize it is not illegal to exceed the Mfg Suggested GCWR unless you have a CDL license ( I don't) with more than 26,000lbs load, or a 10,000 pound trailer. Of course you have the liability concern, but you have the liability concern if you drive RV with or without a tow. I do have liability insurance on both RV, and Navigator.

This thread is how to solve the problem as others have done so safely. Step 1 is to beef up the OEM hitch because exceeding the Hitch rated capacity is not an option. The solution is replacing with one that is well within the realm of a 6,240 lb Navigator.

[dkoldman]

I found a UHaul that is going to remove and install my Curt Hitch certified for fitment by E - Trailer for my 29VE RV this weekend. U haul confirm when connected to the main frame of Ford Chassis versus the extension to the frame by WBGO, I will have stronger hitching capacity over the OEM 5,000#. The 23,000# limitation still exist, but I now know my worse case is 1.8% (420#) over the GCWR. That number will improve while driving as gas burns off, or if I simply decide to drain fresh water tank, or keep the Navigator at 1/4 tank when being towed; I will drop under the GCWR of 23,000#

I also have Auto Collision tech that will install the baseplate on the Navigator this weekend. I am keeping my fingers crossed because Roadmaster assures me that I can put my front bumper fascia covers back on the front bumper without cutting holes in them. My goal is to have baseplate on Navigator, but it NOT be visible, unless I remove the covers to expose where the removable plates will go.

I have the Roadmaster Tow bar Nighthawk on order as well the RVi 3 Brake system.

The lighting and wiring is still TBD. I will get all of the mechanical done and finalized and have the wiring done last. Right now I just wish to get the baseplate and hitch installed without a hitch ( pun intended).

[corvetteSS]

So you are not alone, I am planning on swapping my class 3 hitch for a class V hitch on my 2017 29ve. The max capacity is 16000 lb towing, and 2400 lb tongue weight. I am not planning on attempting to tow anything more than I currently do, but I like the increased tongue weight, if I choose. Also like to think if I need to be pulled backwards by the hitch, I am not worried about bending it. Anyway, etrailer sells a Curt class V for a Vista 29ve. I have one coming, and will get it installed some time this summer.

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by corvetteSS

So you are not alone, I am planning on swapping my class 3 hitch for a class V hitch on my 2017 29ve. The max capacity is 16000 lb towing, and 2400 lb tongue weight. I am not planning on attempting to tow anything more than I currently do, but I like the increased tongue weight, if I choose. Also like to think if I need to be pulled backwards by the hitch, I am not worried about bending it. Anyway, etrailer sells a Curt class V for a Vista 29ve. I have one coming, and will get it installed some time this summer.

Exactly, WBGO said others were doing similar. When towing with the ball, I don't intend to tow anything more than the OEM hitch's rating of 500# on tongue & 5,000# weight, but my new hitch class IV when installed will have 1,000# tongue & 10,000# weight. Although Flat towing is rated to go to 10,000# capacity; I will only need 6,240#.

The irony is that we are actually beefing of the 29ve making them more safer. In my case, the new hitch is also substantially lighter, will sit lower (2 1/2"); which may save the added expense of buying yet another receiver adapter to lower the receiver ( this time for flat tow). Another pet peeve for me is my OEM hitch is rusted at only 4 years old. I am only too glad to have it replaced.

Out the box, the Curt Hitch is really impressive. I bought the Curt Trailer Hitch Receiver - Custom Fit - Class IV - 2" - C14082. If all goes well, by this time tomorrow, I will have it installed. I am having a large U - Haul facility install as an added measure in my favor to have it installed by National renown Professional Hitch Specialists.

[corvetteSS]

I am also thinking I want to transfer the skid plates off the original assembly. The new assembly does not look to have them. I am also going to relocate the rear propane gas line to a safer position. Right now the line is very exposed. Just a process..
Well good luck with yours.

[Airboss68]

This post is not a criticism, nor am I suggesting you will be illegal or unsafe.
You have obviously thought this through quite thoroughly and have a plan that sounds reasonable. I just have some thoughts to ponder.

The fact that someone at Winnebago says that others have done it doesn't mean it is safe or sound. 1240# over their suggested max towing weight is an overage of 24.8% thats quite a bit.

Curt and e trailer saying the hitch is compatible with your RV doesn't mean it is safe or sound.

we are actually beefing of the 29ve making them more safer. I

How do you know this? Has a mechanical engineer reviewed your plans.
There is the possibility that drilling and welding on the existing structure will make it weaker.

I am having a large U - Haul facility install as an added measure in my favor to have it installed by National renown Professional Hitch Specialists.

Is this national renowned hitch specialist employing a licensed, certified professional welder? Do they have a licensed professional engineer on staff?

Tell U haul you are planning to tow 1240# over the vehicle manufacturers max recommended towing weight of 5000# and ask them for a letter certifying that your tow vehicle is safe from damage.


Read the following thread in its entirety. Not exactly applicable to you in that you will not be exceeding tongue weight, but it demonstrates how things can go wrong.


https://www.irv2.com/forums/f103/str...re-605413.html

Good luck, I hope it all works out as planned.

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by Airboss68

This post is not a criticism, nor am I suggesting you will be illegal or unsafe.
You have obviously thought this through quite thoroughly and have a plan that sounds reasonable. I just have some thoughts to ponder.

The fact that someone at Winnebago says that others have done it doesn't mean it is safe or sound.

So what is it going to be? Call Winnebago to see what they say or not? I chose to call WBGO and they did not say what I was doing was unsafe nor not sound. In fact referenced other that had done it.



1240# over their suggested max towing weight is an overage of 24.8% thats quite a bit.

This statement is NOT true. The OEM hitch is rated for 5,000#, the new Curt hitch to be installed is rated is rated for 10,000#. I have chosen to upgrade the hitch with new higher quality hitch that has more beef so if you doi the engineering the Navigator which weighs 1,240# over the OEM hitch of 5,000# will actually be safer than most towing a towed under under 5,000# using the OEM 5,000 hitch. In fact, based on your same math 38% more safe cushion than I will ever need based on rating.

Curt and e trailer saying the hitch is compatible with your RV doesn't mean it is safe or sound.

And don't forget the professionals of U - haul. The Hitch has only one purpose. That is to not bend or break at it's rated capacity. This hitch rated at 10,000# is safer or more sound than any hitch rated for only 5,000#, plus it is designed to be mounted on Ford F-53 chassis not on a certified extension frame by WBGO. FWIW, "Doesn't mean it is safe or sound" No one has said it is unsafe or unsound

How do you know this? Has a mechanical engineer reviewed your plans.
There is the possibility that drilling and welding on the existing structure will make it weaker. Yes, and I specifically reference Curt design engineers. It is certified for the 29ve rigs. The hitch I am having installed is made for F-53 chassis.



Is this national renowned hitch specialist employing a licensed, certified professional welder? Do they have a licensed professional engineer on staff?
I don't know locally. But I do know no welding is required for the install and that the national renowned hitch specialist would have licensed professional engineers at corporate and have policy against allowing any of their local entities to perform an unsafe or unsound install

Tell U haul you are planning to tow 1240# over the vehicle manufacturers max recommended towing weight of 5000# and ask them for a letter certifying that your tow vehicle is safe from damage. See above, you don't understand as I will never EVER exceed hitch weight by 1240#. In fact I will be under by 3,800.


Read the following thread in its entirety. Not exactly applicable to you in that you will not be exceeding tongue weight, but it demonstrates how things can go wrong.

There is no tongue weight involved in my intended application of flat towing with 4 wheels down. But if tongue weight is ever needed, I will have 1,000# versus the current 500#


https://www.irv2.com/forums/f103/str...re-605413.html

Good luck, I hope it all works out as planned.

I hope it works out as planned as well and appreciate the well wishes. I am hoping all of this is done today so I won't crow about it until it is done. Pictures most certainly to follow.

[dkoldman]

I have finished the install of the Roadmaster Baseplate on the Navigator.

I am able to confirm that there was no cutting required on the fascia front bumper covers. A major relief because I did not want my Navigator to look like a toad permanently

You can see one side has the cover on; while the other has cover off. Unless I am towing it, no one will ever know it has a baseplate for flat towing. I spent a lot of time with Roadmaster and e-trailer about this. I was worried that the bars for the safety chains would stick out.

Total Cost Parts & Labor $773.00

[dkoldman]

I have finished the install of the Curt Hitch Upgrade on the RV.

You will see the new bolts are on the Ford F-53 chassis frame, NOT the WBGO extended frame. The receiver is now about 3" lower; which U-Haul says is the normal preferred height. WBGO had to have higher to use the extended frame. This should make for straight-line hook up with U Haul trailers and my Nighthawk tow bar to the Navigator as Toad.

U-Haul provided me with a new connector that has 7 pin and 4 pin. It was nice touch to not use the old one plus gaining the 4 pin. I am sure they wanted to be sure I can hook up to all of their equipment with no adapters needed

The new hitch is 12lbs lighter and has hitch rating of 10,000lbs & tongue weight of 1,000lbs. I don't expect to exceed 6,240lbs on this hitch.

A side bonus is that whenever I am towing anything in the future, there will be no more stresses on the WBGO welds from the extended frame to Ford's chassis main frame.





Below you will see the weld for the extension, and the OEM hitch connected to it, not to mention the rust.




Total Cost Parts & Labor $442.69

[dkoldman]

After talking with no less than 12 possible techs / vendors, I finally found a professional certified dealer with Blue Ox & Roadmaster products that actually works on those products to do my wiring. I have been very particular about price and the qualifications of Tech to do anything with the wiring in the Navigator especially the variable LED lights and the installation of new dedicated 12v socket.

I have an appointment next week; so if all goes well, I should have everything ready to go to test it out and get another weigh.

What is left:

1. Mounting of 6 pin tow bar receptacle / wiring to lights
2. Charge line with resettable breaker from Amazon that I got from a tip from fellow RV'er
3. RVI Breakaway switch mounting and wiring inside the Navigator for the RVI brake unit
4. Dedicated 12vdc socket on driver side near floor to provide power for RVI brake unit
5. The return of my Mfg Refurbished RVI Brake 3 Unit from RVI Brake in Castle Rock CO. I could get as early as tomorrow

FWIW, I have trip this weekend and another trip next weekend, but no toad will be taken even if it is ready to go.

[dkoldman]

So today I finally get a chance to hook up Navigator to Sunstar.

Confirmed all of the parts fit, all lights worked with the RV, the charge line had steady output. It was a snap putting the Nighthawk together with all of the safety chains and breakaway.

I then added the RVI Brake and it too was a snap working the 1st time. The drama, if any; was putting the Navigator's highly electronic system in Neutral Tow mode. The fail safe is such that it is impossible to put into Flat Tow mode unless you deliberately want to and know how to do it. It tells you when it is enabled and it will also tell you if you missed any precondition steps.

When I was finally ready, I towed one feet having my wife stand outside to watch the wheels. They rolled nicely so she got in RV and we were off to our Cat Scale ( 30 min drive) It drove easier than I thought, almost like pulling our boat. I was driving slower than normal, but I couldn't feel it back there? It stopped with ease. I didn't tinker with the RVI Brake setting today opting to just tow it with the standard out of the box settings. I think there is a setting for a large SUV that I should probably program to, but I may have to call RVi for that. Breaking was a none issue. I didn't buy a command tablet; so I can only go by if I hit the breaks could I stop and the answer is yes. In fact, I may actually be stopping better with Navigator.

So we make it to the Cat Scale and my official travel weight is 23,280 lbs. I had 3/4 tank of gas in RV and 1/4 tank in Navigator. I had 1/3 tank of freshwater (25.9 gallons). Gray & Black were empty. My wife and I and some clothing, all my tools, chairs and Makita air compressor. My usual stash of bottled water, beer & bourbon.

[lenore]

awsome.....safe travels.

[liveaboard74]

Originally Posted by dkoldman

So it looks like I am on my own here?

I assume no one is towing more than 5,000# with a WBGO RV that from factory had a hitch rated for 5,000#?

Your a light weight. Just so you will know.

I just upgraded my hitch to pull 9000 pounds.
Have a 4x4 Tahoe lifted with 33s on it fixed up for the Beach.
Bought the RV to go to the beach only. Actually name it Beach Front Condo.
Had a welder add a extra bar in the rear and bring a support over to the factor hitch. Welded the hitch itself to the frame in several spots.
Bought a used 16 foot car hauler cleaned it up, repainted it that Tahoe can't be pulled has to be towed. Tahoe 7400 pounds. Trailer 1700.
I"m all flat land from Elizabeth City 75 to 150 miles to where we spend some weekends little further down if I pull the boat behind the RV but you get the idea.
Boats about 7500 pounds.
Fab shop or welder can beef that hitch up where it can pull more.


Heres my towing toys.

[liveaboard74]

Bought a 24 foot food trailer motorcycle goes in the front enclosed part , can am in the rear for our western NC vacation weeks. Motorcycle riding and trail riding.
The Tahoe fits on the 16 foot trailer to go to the beach behind the motorhome. I was just finishing it up painting it new lights being the dodge 3500.
Got to look good to you know.

Visit a old farm welder. Grew up on a farm. Anything can be beefed up to support more.
Just get your tongue weight down to around 500 to 600 pounds or use a motor toad. Doally.
I"ll get a picture of what he did under the back end of the RV.
Just makes sure you can watch those transmission temps. Thats the important thing when towing.
Most of our RV is done on flat land. Third week of fall we go to Covington VA trail riding and motorcycle riding with that food trailer/ toy hauler I converted. Boat and Tahoe are the two heaviest. Tahoe with the trailer is 9000. Boat is about 7000.

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by liveaboard74

Bought a 24 foot food trailer motorcycle goes in the front enclosed part , can am in the rear for our western NC vacation weeks. Motorcycle riding and trail riding.
The Tahoe fits on the 16 foot trailer to go to the beach behind the motorhome. I was just finishing it up painting it new lights being the dodge 3500.
Got to look good to you know.

Visit a old farm welder. Grew up on a farm. Anything can be beefed up to support more.
Just get your tongue weight down to around 500 to 600 pounds or use a motor toad. Doally.
I"ll get a picture of what he did under the back end of the RV.
Just makes sure you can watch those transmission temps. Thats the important thing when towing.
Most of our RV is done on flat land. Third week of fall we go to Covington VA trail riding and motorcycle riding with that food trailer/ toy hauler I converted. Boat and Tahoe are the two heaviest. Tahoe with the trailer is 9000. Boat is about 7000.

This is awesome and reassuring. I have a trip coming up next weekend where I want to drive my Navigator to an event, but wish to stay in the RV.

What is your GVWR and GCVWR?
I am curious to know how much overweight you exceed that GCVWR in worse case?

I like the fact that my new Curt Hitch bolted on Ford Frame not the holes WBGO put on the extension part of frame. My Receiver is now about 3 1/2 inches lower so no adapter is required to level the draw bar with the Navigator

[liveaboard74]

Originally Posted by dkoldman

This is awesome and reassuring. I have a trip coming up next weekend where I want to drive my Navigator to an event, but wish to stay in the RV.

What is your GVWR and GCVWR?
I am curious to know how much overweight you exceed that GCVWR in worse case?

I like the fact that my new Curt Hitch bolted on Ford Frame not the holes WBGO put on the extension part of frame. My Receiver is now about 3 1/2 inches lower so no adapter is required to level the draw bar with the Navigator

2000 35c I have not scaled it yet but think it says its 20,000. Adding the 16 foot car trailer and Tahoe 29,000 but thats just a guess. Just put new tires on the 16 foot car trailer today. Beefing up for good trips not horrable ones.
I"m a little different than you guys the motor home is basicly to head to the beach with 75 to 150 miles away. Flat country only. Coastal.
It replaced a lance 1191 slide in camper I pulled everything under the sun with using a real dolley. The bigger 31 foot Fountain is gone down to a 24 foot walk around in the picture but the 4 camera system I installed in the 35c makes life easy to back the toys in.
Thats the slide in with the Fountain behind it. Lot of good times RVing and fishing together. .