Winter camping in the FLX

[jrg3170]

We're thinking about buying the FLX (2100BH) to camp at our local ski area during the winter (mid 30s during the day, teens overnight but sometimes as low as 0F). I'm interested to hear what experiences FLX owners have had with winter camping? We would be dry camping, but generators are allowed. My main concern is whether the tanks will be useable.

A few questions:

1. Does the FLX furnace ducting vent into/pass thru the underbelly, as with the regular model?
2. How many amps do the tank heaters draw? Somewhere I saw 5 amps each, 15 amps total?
3. Has anyone run the tank heaters off of the battery? How long can you run them for?

Lastly, a non-winter question - how long does it take to recharge the 320ah battery with a typical quiet generator, say 1800 running watts? Which I guess is really asking how many amps the battery charger will take...?

[RocknRoll]

Bring a lot of fuel because under those conditions, you'll be most likely running that generator 24/7.

MM's including the FLX are not 4 season trailers. Very few are.

[jrg3170]

To power the tank heaters you mean? My math shows I'd only need to run the generator a few hours a day, maybe less? Looking for validation of my assumptions, tell me if I'm wrong:

3x tank heaters draw 5 amps each, 15 amps total
80% depth of discharge on the 320ah battery = 256ah

Runtime = availability capacity / amp draw
256ah/15amps = ~17 hours

Given the tank heaters are 12V the inverter doesn't need to be on overnight. And of course some of the battery will go to lights, fridge, pump, etc... so the 17 hours is more of a theoretical maximum.

During the day, the battery will recharge some from the solar panels. But, let's just assume no solar for now.

The next question is how long the generator has to run to recharge the 320ah battery. This is the part I'm more unsure on. There's two parts to this:
1) How much power the battery can take / charging rate
2) How much power the generator can make

I think the limitation is #1? Most of the quieter RV type generators max out at 30amps, but that's at 120V (so 3600W). The Xantrex takes 150A (!) at 12V (?), or 1800W? So the generator can produce more power than the battery can take?

So to replenish the 256ah at 12V is 256/150 = 1.5 hours. There will be some charging losses and such, and the charging rate won't be 100% through the full curve, etc...

But, where this napkin math gets me to is:

1) I can run the tank heaters off the battery overnight, at least for a few hours
2) I can top off the battery at the end of the day with the generator as needed, for probably 1-3 hours

Am I thinking about this the right way?

[RocknRoll]

If it was me, I would be ultra-conservative so you wouldn't have to constantly worry about power management. Maybe perform a real time test with the generator powering everything you want it to do and then throw in a 20% fudge factor.

Remember, batteries do not hold a charge nor charge well in the cold, especially at freezing temps.

At best case, solar may give you 50% what you get in the summer. That does not include cloud cover and/or precipitation.

Another factor is the trailer heater itself. Not sure what the fan draws, but it can be substantial.

Insulation is your best friend. Plan on covering the windows, vents and possibly insulating the pass-thru for additional comfort. Good luck!

[Marine359]

We’ve camped in freezing weather in our plain vanilla 2108ds for up to a week with hookups, and 2 days with no hookups. There’s not a lot of volume inside, so it doesn’t take much to keep it warm, and it’s pretty well insulated; better than most TTs I think. However, when we boondocked we were too close to running out of power during the night. We’ve since added a 2Kwh powerstation, so, I think we’ll be ok now.

Micro Minnie’s have two tank heaters. Each one draws about 65 watts when they are on. So by my calculation, if you leave your tank heaters on for 10 hours, you will consume about 1,300wh. The Lithionics 300ah LFP in the FLX stores 3,600wh at 100% SOC. I don’t know exactly what the furnace uses, but it’s a lot. And don’t forget the 600wh/day the compressor fridge will use. We have 300w solar on the roof, 100w portable, and 170ah LFP, and when boondocking in ambients in the teens, with 100% SOC we could make it through the night with furnace on, tank heaters on, and fridge turned off. But we had to fire up the generator first thing in the morning. So during the night we went through over 1,800wh. The solar was enough to recharge, but not enough to service daytime loads of furnace, fridge, and tank heaters during daytime ambients in the thirties. We also have a thermostatically controlled tank heater on our battery, so that’s another load that can’t be dropped if we want to be able to recharge.

If you set the furnace thermostat to 65F at night, when you get up in the morning to make coffee with your kettle and French press, the range (with fan on) heats the interior to 70F before the dw gets out of bed. Biggest issue is getting moisture out. Opening windows and running a roof fan or the A/C fan makes cools down interior again.

[Marine359]

An add on how we managed to get through the night: turned off inverter, turned on tank heaters just before going to bed at 11pm, set thermostat to 65F. Up at 6:30am, battery SOC 5%, turned off tank heaters, started truck and hooked up 7-pin, started battery heater. Waited til battery heater turned itself off (40F) then started generator. Next night we turned thermostat down to 60F and added more blankets. Didn’t want to nearly run dry again, and not be able to heat the battery.

So to figure furnace consumption,
Tank heaters running for 7.5 hours = 975wh
Subtract from the 1,860wh we used overnight means furnace used somewhere in the neighborhood of 850Wh allowing for some lighting, and phantom loads.

[Marine359]

Re: Battery charging. Math is simple.
Assuming your charger can be programmed via Bluetooth for charge amperage:
Charging at 50 amps for one hour, puts 50amphrs into the battery.
So, if you charge a 300ah LFP at 50amps, it will take 6 hours to charge fro zero to 100% SOC. Or, 3 hours charging at 100 amps.
Make sure you don’t exceed the max amperage input for your battery, and it’s not a good idea to charge at or near the battery’s max input all the time. My battery has a max input of 80amps. But I charge at 50 amps when using generator (to conserve gen run time), and 20amps when on a pedestal. Only charge at 80amps when we’re in a hurry to leave.

[AandPB]

We have a 2108TB FLX and happen to be using it in our driveway due to a water issue that extended to both bathroom’s. First we sleep very comfortably in the RV at night with Gas heating on average set at 60 degrees as the gas heat is so warm. Our average daytime temps are 30-40 degrees with evening getting down to the teens. We added a RV 30 amp outlet to our garage because we knew we had to draw the batteries down and be them back to bulk every two weeks. With that we use our small infer red heater set between 55-60’ during the day as we are in and out for the house but using the potty. We had already winterized our trailer before our water issue so we use the potty and gallon jugs of water to flush the tank so no water is running through our lines. With this protocol we empty our black tank weekly 2 people, propane tank lasts just over a week (1 per week) . We have been very pleased with our FLX and have over 6k miles traveling from temps over 100 to well below zero.

[dms7479]

2022 Micro Minnie FLX 2108TB

I am currently going through weather the teens here in TX. Full-timer and first-timer winter living. I am at a full hookup site did all the recommended preps that I did research on and felt comfortable I was ready.

I let the faucet drip into a 2 1/2 ga tub that drained into another one and would just dump them so I could keep grey tank 1/2 full (I have heaters).

4am water dripping, 7am not dripping. Went out side and ice all around bib and hose. I had them all encased in foam. I have a feeling it was because I was using a regulator (no gauge). I unhook, bib was froze but hose had water. Dumped water on bib and water shot out. Hooked up and good to go. I am just temporarily regulated with the nozzle on bib. I did enclose it in a bin with a cut out and stuffed in with towels.

Now the fun started. I decided to check my fresh water just in case. Turned on pump and struggle. Waited a second and same result.

I pulled up the flooring under the sink where the pump was and used a hair dryer to heat for a good amount of time and tried again.

It started and then just stopped. I assume I probably caused a piece of ice to get lodged in there and burnt it up. Not expensive so I will deal with that.

Still needed to find out how they got frozen.

I won't go into detail about me removing just about every logical panel but I'll tell you what I found.

At least in mine the feed line for the pump runs into the bay under the range and then splits into hot and cold lines. The wheel well runs through both of these bays and the lines ran right up against it the whole way.

The wheel well is probably .032 sheet metal. So the only thing in between these lines in an area that gets little if any heat and a 3deg 15mph win, is .032" sheet metal. It is a poor design but an easy fix.

In addition to that there are 2 T-connectors with a steady drip. They crimp clamp and put on very poorly. Not something I can just adjust.

For the time being I pulled the lines away from the well and put stuff in between and have been pumping heat in the sink area. I put the drawer back in to contain heat. I also put a tarp up on the outside to block the well area.

As for the leaks I am just letting them drip into wads of paper towel and changed out as needed. I can't really fix anything until after this freeze breaks. And then make excuses to put it off lol.

I will be insulated the well and the lines in there.

I learned so much ripping apart my camper and actually thankful for the experience. I came across so many things that could be easily fixed and upgraded. Other than tight access they all should be pretty easy and inexpensive but prove valuable.

Other than the obvious tools the things that were invaluable to me today and I think a must have if winter camping if you don't have them:

1. Hairdryer--I am single and just happened to buy one last week for something else I wanted to repair. I wouldn't use a heat gun for stuff like this.

2. Headband Flashlight

3. Infrared Thermometer--I used the daylights out of mine and one with a laser was incredibly distance for unreachable areas. If you have a Micro and a dog...Make sure they don't see the laser. Micro small/Dog big.

Hope this helps and I actually encourage everyone at some point rip into every panel of your RV. Hopefully not during a major freeze but you know when you get time. I found so many easy upgrades it's crazy.

UPDATE: Sorry for all the errors. Hopefully you can get the idea but I am not going correcting all that lol

[Marine359]

This may have been averted if you had not connected the fresh water bib when temperature dropped, or if you had a heated hose. If you’re not connected to fresh water, letting the faucet drip, using tank water and pump will normally keep things from freezing. You should also open lower cabinet doors most of the time, and use a 12v rechargeable usb fan to circulate warm air into the cabinets where there is plumbing.

[Jfergus7]

Great post with ton’s of great info! So glad that I found this one. I am actually in the process right now of trading in my 2021 1708FB for a 2023 2108DS FLX for the purpose of doing more boondocking and camping more in the winter months! In addition to the already 300 watts of panels the camper is coming with one of my first tasks will be to add an additional 200 watt panel to the roof. Between that and my external Jackery 2000 I am hoping that it might give me more then enough power to run for a few extended weekend trips next winter. I will also take a gas generator with for backup with hopes of not having to use it at all!

[Marine359]

Curious about how you plan on adding two more 100w panels on the roof.
Even if the new panels are voltage matched with the existing panels, hope you’re aware that it will be a difficult/impossible solution electrically.

Assuming here that the trailer will come with a 100/30 solar charge controller.
Five panels is an ugly number.

If you install all 5 panels in serial, you’ll exceed the max voltage input (100v) of the controller. Each panel probably has a Voc of 22-24 volts. So, multiply that Voc by the number of panels.

If you install all 5 in parallel, you’ll likely exceed the maximum ampacity of the 10awg cable Winnebago uses from the gland to the interior of the trailer. You’ll also likely exceed the controller’s maximum input wattage (400w).

Four or six panel are workable electrically. An even number of panels allows you to rig them series/parallel. Pairs in series, and pair strings in parallel. I don’t believe there’s enough real estate on the roof of a 2108 to install six panels.

If you’re dead set on adding more than one panel, consider adding a 75/15 controller, a sidewall port, and up to three 100w portable panels in serial. This would give you the ability to place the portable array 30ft away from the camper., to get away from any shading the camper may be in. And, another benefit is you don’t have to make additional holes in the roof. You could also opt instead for a 200w portable, as they’re getting pretty inexpensive now. The 75/15 controller costs only $125. Install takes far less time than mounting a roof panel.

We’ve done a fair amount of cold weather camping in our 2108DS. Some of it boondocking, which is not fun. Perfectly ok if you have hookups. 400w of solar is not enough to fully recharge house battery and a 2kWh powerstation. In cold weather, we averaged about 1kWh daily production. So, not possible to run a ceramic heater very long. With no hookups you’ll use more than 2 gal of propane per day, making for multiple trips to Tractor Supply to refill. We carried 3x 20# tanks, so fewer refill runs. If boondocking you will have to run generator frequently. With hookups, using a ceramic heater to supplement furnace will cut propane consumption in half.

[dms7479]

Originally Posted by Marine359

Curious about how you plan on adding two more 100w panels on the roof.
Even if the new panels are voltage matched with the existing panels, hope you’re aware that it will be a difficult/impossible solution electrically.

The FLX comes standard with 2ea 200W Solar Panels (400W) and a 600W Controller. If I understand correctly, OP wants to add one more 200W panel. Which, according to the dealer, is completely possible.

Personally, instead of mounting a third panel, I would get a 200W portable panel. That way: 1. You do not have to mount it, you can just plug it in on the forward driver side. 2. You have at least one panel you can position to constantly receive full sun provided it is sunny.

Only negative I can think of is that you probably wouldn't want to leave it out if you are planning on being away from your rig.

[Marine359]

OP stated the FLX he was looking at has 300w solar, which I presumed to be 3x 100. If that is the case, then my comments about electrical issues do apply. If the FLx he’s looking at has 2x 200 and a 600w controller, then it would be possible to add another 200w panel. Could be he’s not looking at a new FLX. Older ones do not have 2x 200. Let’s see how OP responds.

Of course, I do recommend skipping additional roof mounts and going with 200w portable wired to a 75/15 controller.

[eatSleepWoof]

Unless you are on shore power, I would not bother with attempting to use the plumbing system in the winter. Trying to keep everything from freezing, you'll run out of electricity very quickly, and pipes will then freeze in any case. The simple solution is to have jerry cans with potable water, drain the used water into a portable basin, and dump it outside. With previous trailers we've done this many times in temperatures lower than -20c with great success. On a few occasions we did dump water down into the gray water tank, and yes, it did freeze, but did not cause any issues in the small volume of water we used.

These winnebagos, even with heated water tanks, are still a 3-season trailer.

[Marine359]

That approach is a good one, but only if you first winterize. Otherwise water will remain in your pipes, and could freeze if not properly heated. We’ve never had a problem with freeze up. The heating mats work well, and we circulate water through the HWH so it won’t freeze. Add fresh water to the fill, and use the pump for fresh water. The only issue that could have arisen is the dump valves freezing up. And I’m sure that could happen, but didn’t. Probably should have lubricated them beforehand with some grease. We kept lower cabinet doors open and circulated warm air into them with a 12v usb fan. Our only real problem was getting rid of condensation.

[eatSleepWoof]

Great point about winterizing and/or thawing after. Our trailer fit in the garage, so I never bothered winterizing it - forgot all about that detail.