Converter repair or replace? 2012 Access Chalet 31C

[Chief deputy]

Hello all,

We just returned from a week long trip. While we were out I noticed our refrigerator would only run on LP and not electric. We got home yesterday and today I started troubleshooting. I unplugged the fridge and tested the outlet and discovered no power to it. I went in and checked the breaker to discover it was tripped. I reset it and when I did it arched and sparked so I flipped it back off. I’ll attempt to post a photo or two. There is a circuit board under the breakers and fuses. I believe this is part of the power converter. Not sure if I can replace the circuit board or the whole converter. Anyone know if this is the power converter? If so, what’s your opinion? If not, what is it and what do I need to do?
Thanks in advance for your help!

[Chief deputy]

I forgot to add that everything else works on all other breakers. Only the 15 amp refrigerator breaker is inoperable. This makes me question my thought of a bad converter.
Also, the photos are not the best but where the black wire plugs in on the right side of the circuit board, there is a burn mark and one of the yellow resistors is burnt.

[bigb]

That circuit board is indeed your power converter.
If you remove the screws on the bottom the whole converter just pulls out. It is very easy to replace, just 2 wires go to the fuse board, and possibly a Molex connector if you have the Charge Wizard feature, and the AC power which is spliced into the refrigerator circuit.

But first lets see if it's the converter or the fridge tripping the circuit breaker.

Remove the circuit breaker cover "deadfront" (unplug your shore power first!)
You can then remove the "pin" from the circuit breaker which is the converter power plus a pigtail that the fridge is wire nutted to. Untwist the wire nut and put the remaining wire for the fridge on the breaker, if it no longer trips you have proved that the converter is the problem. If it still trips you have a short in the fridge circuit.

Finally, if the converter needs to come out, disconnect the converter's white wire from the neutral bus and slide the whole thing out as you feed the wires thru the knockouts.

Progressive Dynamics, who made your converter under the Parallax name, sells drop in replacements, you might want to go with a Lithium compatible one if you think you might ever go to LiFePO4 batteries.

I have the same load center, I recently pulled it out and decided to replace the entire load center with a WFCO because I could get a Li compatible converter and more breaker space for $229. I wanted more breaker space because I never liked sharing the converter with the fridge as I could never shut off just one if I wanted to.

Be sure to unplug your RV before removing the breaker cover (deadfront) to get to the AC power connections.

[Chief deputy]

Thanks Brian. Working with electrical components is a weak area for me. That said I’m willing to get in and figure things out if I can.
How is it that everything else works if the converter is bad? Is that circuit board part of the converter itself? And, I just replaced my batteries last year but would be interested in lithium in the future. Will the converter you have work with my marine batteries until I replace them?

[bigb]

Originally Posted by Chief deputy

Thanks Brian. Working with electrical components is a weak area for me. That said I’m willing to get in and figure things out if I can.
How is it that everything else works if the converter is bad? Is that circuit board part of the converter itself? And, I just replaced my batteries last year but would be interested in lithium in the future. Will the converter you have work with my marine batteries until I replace them?

I edited my post to offer more details. We need to first see which item is tripping the breaker, converter or fridge.
If you need a new converter but you are not changing the entire load center as I did you don't want the converter I have as it won't fit your load center. You will want a Progressive Dynamics. I will look for the one I was planning to get before I decided to replace the entire load center, yes it will work for all battery types and it will also prevent over charging of your present deep cycle batteries like some of the older converters tend to do.
If the converter is off or bad things will continue to work as long as your batteries are charged. Every time you drive they charge off the engine and when you plug into shore power they are supposed to charge off the converter.

[Morich]

Ok, sounds like you've got us a lot of the info we need to do a closer look!
But we need to be careful which breaker and where to avoid confusion.
Is the frig to run on 12VDC or was it looking for 110 AC? Different frigs get put in here and there, so wanting to check!

But you are looking in the right place, so we need to clear what you have where.
On your year and model, they were using a combo of things built together and one of them is the converter, kind of on the bottom under a set of two groups of breakers and fuses.
I turned your picture so it will look more like what I found in the drawings.
What you have is the ac breakers at upper left with the 12VDC fuses more to the right. Under it all is part of the converter.
Your picture

And matching what the drawings show!


What you are seeing if the 110AC comes from the shore power to the breakers on left on the main breaker which then passes power to the smaller breakers for the 110aC outlets, microwave, etc.
It also connects 110 AC to the the input side of the converter which "makes" 12VDC and passes it to the fuses at right and they feed the 12VDC things in the RV. Lights, vent fans, water pump?

We get 110AC schematics for your year but not 12VDc. So if you want to look at a drawing of where all the AC things get power look here:
https://www.winnebago.com/Files/File...ire_178385.pdf Kind of like a road map with lots of weird things?

But it doesn't show the connection for the converter but we know it has to get there! If it's humming, it's getting AC power.

But when you say you flipped the breaker, I have to assume you mean the 110AC breaker tot he frig?
There is also a fuse to the frig controls as well but that comes AFTER the converter.

Part of your drawing for the AC is this, showing the power from cord comes into the main breaker, goes to the breaker for frig. to feed AC power to frig. That is the one you mean?


If that is what is tripping, it leads away from the converter as it goes straight AC power to the frig. Not the DC power coming out of the converter!

Good and bad there as it likely means the converter is okay but the frig needs a look!

So what frig do you have? does it run three ways, propane, 12Volt or 11AC?
Does it work on the others but not just on 110AC?

Lots of different frigs and they can get changed over the years, so we may need to know more about the frig?

[bigb]

Richard, the fridge and the converter share the same circuit breaker. In my instructions I have explained how to temporarily separate them to see which one is tripping the breaker.

Shane, if it's unclear what I mean about the pin in the circuit breaker I will take a picture, I still have my old setup out in the garage. Basically a black wire comes off the converter, goes thru a knockout and then to a pin on the end with a second wire crimped under the pin which is wire nutted to the fridge circuit and tucked away under the circuit breakers. By either removing the pin and or wirenut and only putting one of the items back on the breaker you can isolate whichever is the problem.

[Chief deputy]

To clarify, I have a Norcold 2 way (110 ac or LP). It works on LP but not on 110 ac. Power from the converter to every other component both ac and dc works fine.
Monday I will go through the steps Brian detailed.

[bigb]

BTW a shorted fridge heating element is not uncommon and will trip a breaker so I wouldn't be surprised if that's the whole issue. To quickly check that simply unplug the fridge and see if the breaker holds. If it holds, plug fridge back in and try to start it on 120, if it now trips there you go, no converter swap needed.

Wait, in your first post did the breaker trip while the fridge was unplugged? If so then it's either the fridge circuit got damaged or the converter is shorted. When a breaker arcs and sparks that is a short circuit, and it will trip internally as you are trying to reset it.

(It is also advisable to replace any circuit breaker that has been operated into a short circuit once the problem is fixed)

[Chief deputy]

The fridge was unplugged when the breaker arced and sparked. That’s one reason I’m confused about what happened. And since part of the circuit board is burned and possibly a resistor burned, how will I know if it’s the fridge, circuit board or breaker?

[Morich]

Yes, I see I got caught trusting the drawings more than I should.
If I look at the pictures closer, I can't see they have labeled that breaker as feeding two things but I can't read what!

So yet again, yes wired something as important as the converter but do not show it on the drawing the give us but do at least mark it on the breakers.

You really have to thank them for being so helpful, right? Just about the time I get into thinking they do a good job, they come up with something this dumb!

[Chief deputy]

The breaker is labeled fridge. I don’t believe there is anything else on that circuit. The photos I posted don’t show the breakers but it is the same as the breaker in the schematics.

[bigb]

If you look closer you will see that breaker is labeled REFRIG/CONV. It's identical to my setup (that I replaced). That's why the first step needs to be separating the splice, to see which is the culprit. Pic below is mine. It was always a nuisance that I couldn't switch off the converter without also losing the fridge. That's why I decided to replace the entire load center so I could gain more breaker space. Since I am a retired electrician is was a no brainer.

[Chief deputy]

Yes sir, exactly the same. I just checked mine and it IS labeled exactly like yours.

[Morich]

To me, that is the missing piece that is critical to know but they don't show it on the drawings!
We have two items that we are thinking one is failing as the breaker is tripping. So the questions has to be what?
Is it the frig or is it the converter? I would lean toward it being the frig as the more frequent one to go bad but we have to look at each of those and still keep in mind that it may be either or neither!

We have to separate the two feeds and find which, if either, is the cause but keep in mind it may be as simple as the wiring going to one is breaking down from rubbing, etc.!
Jumping to the assumption that it has to be the high dollar part is one way to waste a lot of time and money!

In this case it looks like it takes a lot to get to the converter, so why not go with disconnecting the frig as the easy one to get to and test?

When faced with these odds, I go for testing the easy before sweating to do the hard.
I would first disconnect the frig at the back of the frig where we can get to the wiring . Usually pretty easy.
If the problem is still there and the breaker still trips, I might next pull the cover on the load center and look for where they combined the wiring to frig and converter.
Did they do what is normally a code violation in house wiring and double the wires at the breaker?
I might even go far enough to swap in a known good breaker to try to assure myself it was not just a faulty breaker. Maybe the wires are rubbed bare in the clamp at the back of the load center?

Lots of easy stuff before doing the trauma of cutting a hole for access to the converter which we find fail far less often than frigs and breakers!

Most of us have heard of boards going bad on frigs?

[Chief deputy]

Just wanted to follow up with this thread so if anyone else has a similar experience they will at least know the outcome.

First, bigb (Brian) was spot on with his diagnosis and process to determine the problem. I was able to follow his procedure to determine the problem was my converter and not the refrigerator. Second he shared info on what his replacement convertor was as well as how he determined the correct replacement through Progressive Dynamics.
I followed his lead and contacted Progressive Dynamics. I learned the replacement model for my old model 7345 is the model 4645. I was able to make the swap fairly easy.

This is why this site and the people sharing their knowledge and experience are so valuable. I would venture to say they saved me at least a few hundred dollars. May God bless you! And thank you!

[bigb]

Glad you were able to get it done. I can't imagine having to pay people to fix things on my RV, especially these days where the work can be shoddy, the wait times long and the cost very expensive. The chassis is another issue, I can do a lot there but if anything major happened like a new engine I'd have to pay someone.

[Chief deputy]

I’m getting there. I’ll try most anything to learn along the way. I even started an auto repair class at my local community college. Learning a lot and able to work on all my vehicles there.