Automatic Transfer Switch

[Motts461]

My ATS quit working on shore power on my Minnie Winnie 31G. We came back from a ride and no power. I checked the pedastool from campground and the Progressive Industries EMS-PT30X surge protector I am using showed 123 volts and 0 amps with 0 errors.I unplugged the surge protector and plugged directly into the pedastool and still no power. I started my generator and I have power. There is a smell inside my electric compartment like something got hot.

I contacted Winnebago tech support and went through this and they felt the ATS is bad. So, any words of advice would be appreciated. Do I stay with the Surge Guard 41300 That Winnebago installed or is there something better out there?

Thanks

[Morich]

Age/year of the RV is always an important point as things change so much and so often especially when dealing with electronics. So we need to know what you have as a first step.
On the switch it may be bad but it may also be that a mouse has chewed the wiring, so I would want to check before going for new. Might just be a burned "crispy critter" laying in the floor??
The view on the surge guard is often a personal thing and it also changes almost weekly as new designs come out, so what one wants out of the item is often a personal type thing.

[Motts461]

2019 Minnie Winnie 31G, I took ownership on March 30th of 2018.

I opened the cover and found some burnt wires at the terminals, see the attached photo. I tried to unscrew the terminal screw and broke the plastic housing. I am out camping now and heading home tomorrow.
I got lucky that all I need to replace is the switch. I will add checking this to my annual checklist.

[Morich]

Yessir! It did get a little hot in there and no mouse involved! But looking closer, I'm wondering if there was a bit of bad work waiting to happen. If there was a loose lug screw in the empty hole, did it rattle loose and fall down to short out the hot black wire to ground before vaporizing and winding up on the wall of the switch?
That makes me look at how close they left the bare ground wire running really close to the hot side in other places! Or it might not be as close as the picture makes it look. But it is a good explanation of why connections should always have covers on them to keep all that hot stuff from spewing out on something else to start a fire!
But it does feel good to know for sure you have a problem spotted. If you put the new one in, tighten down all those unused lugs.

[Motts461]

Will do thanks

[Goodspike]

Originally Posted by Motts461

2019 Minnie Winnie 31G, I took ownership on March 30th of 2018.

I opened the cover and found some burnt wires at the terminals, see the attached photo. I tried to unscrew the terminal screw and broke the plastic housing. I am out camping now and heading home tomorrow.
I got lucky that all I need to replace is the switch. I will add checking this to my annual checklist.

To me it looks like that black (?) input line connected at the burnt lug above the white one might have been loose and the loose connection caused the wire to heat up and burn.

That could easily cause no power when plugged in, assuming that is the shore connection line. I had a loose connection in my breaker box at home and it caused the lights on that circuit to sometimes shut off, as if there were a power outage on only one leg of my house power.

[BobC]

Tighten all the lugs while you're at it. This should be an annual maintenance item.

[Jdhargis]

I had the same thing happen to my 2018 Vista LX . I CONTACTED. Winnebago and they got me in to service right away. There was a rolling recall they told me on mine. That some of the automatic transfer switches were not tightened down properly from the install and will arc causing this problem. Contact them immediately.

Originally Posted by Motts461

My ATS quit working on shore power on my Minnie Winnie 31G. We came back from a ride and no power. I checked the pedastool from campground and the Progressive Industries EMS-PT30X surge protector I am using showed 123 volts and 0 amps with 0 errors.I unplugged the surge protector and plugged directly into the pedastool and still no power. I started my generator and I have power. There is a smell inside my electric compartment like something got hot.

I contacted Winnebago tech support and went through this and they felt the ATS is bad. So, any words of advice would be appreciated. Do I stay with the Surge Guard 41300 That Winnebago installed or is there something better out there?

Thanks

[1237dmctlc]

Great Advice by jdhargis, and luck was on your side that was the extent of the damage. I heard similar recall. I'm not sure if it covers the 38W Forza's but it's going back to the dealer tomorrow for warranty repair so I've jotted it down to ask them to check it out. Thanks and let us know how you make out please and also good advice by BobC for annual maintenance, it's on my list of things to do for yearly maintenance. Thanks

[jerichorick]

Originally Posted by Motts461

2019 Minnie Winnie 31G, I took ownership on March 30th of 2018.

I opened the cover and found some burnt wires at the terminals, see the attached photo. I tried to unscrew the terminal screw and broke the plastic housing. I am out camping now and heading home tomorrow.
I got lucky that all I need to replace is the switch. I will add checking this to my annual checklist.

I feel so bad for you. This is a common problem, unfortunately. In most cases it starts at the factory. After the electrical is installed, all connections in the service panel and the ATS are not re-torqued. My advise to all is to check the tightness of all your connections in this topic. Do not over tighten but make certain they are tight. For my first two years I do this. First soon after I get my coach and then about a hear later. After that, once ever 3 years just to be certain.
I use and recommend No-Ox compound on the plug luges after cleaning them. This is not dialectic compound. That is an insulator. You need a oxidation fighter that is conductive. https://www.homedepot.com/p/Ideal-No...-024/202276207 for example.
A ATS will defer to the generator.
Here are some ATS at Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/s?k=rv+automa...ss_ts-o-p_4_13
I have replaced several over the years. Fighting with the wire is the hard part. Just take a picture of the wiring before disconnect any leads. Of course your cord will be unplugged and your generator breaker will be off before you start replacing the ATS.
You just might luck out for a temporary fix. IF you can remove the allen screw on the burnt lead you might be able to reuse it after you remove the damaged section of wire. If the ATS works at this point don't trust it. Replace it in any case.
Rick Y

[Motts461]

I installed a new ATS yesterday. I wanted to stay with the same set up so I didn't have to mess too much with the wires. I purchased a Southwire 41300, the original was a TRC 41300.

I did put Noalox on all the connections and tried to route them a little better. My brother who was a union electrician for 30 some years gave me a hand. I will say that trying to manipulate 10 Gage solid wire is a pita, especially in the small compartment I had to work in. The other thing is torquing the terminal screws without breaking the damn thing. I also added another strap to the shore cable. That's the terminal that melted and I wasn't sure if pulling the cord in and out to setup may have caused my problem. Winnebago used a 1" strap and a self taper on their strap. I used two 3/4" straps and 1/4" stainless nuts and bolts.

I tested everything and it is working properly. I will be checking all the screws on a regular basis. I wish there was a way to let everyone else know about this issue.

Thanks everyone for your help.

[1237dmctlc]

Originally Posted by Motts461

I installed a new ATS yesterday. I wanted to stay with the same set up so I didn't have to mess too much with the wires. I purchased a Southwire 41300, the original was a TRC 41300.

I did put Noalox on all the connections and tried to route them a little better. My brother who was a union electrician for 30 some years gave me a hand. I will say that trying to manipulate 10 Gage solid wire is a pita, especially in the small compartment I had to work in. The other thing is torquing the terminal screws without breaking the damn thing. I also added another strap to the shore cable. That's the terminal that melted and I wasn't sure if pulling the cord in and out to setup may have caused my problem. Winnebago used a 1" strap and a self taper on their strap. I used two 3/4" straps and 1/4" stainless nuts and bolts.

I tested everything and it is working properly. I will be checking all the screws on a regular basis. I wish there was a way to let everyone else know about this issue.

Thanks everyone for your help.

Nice job and thanks for the update. Glad you had an experience electrician with you. The mod to secure it better was a smart idea. Have fun now that things are back together.

[Goodspike]

Originally Posted by Motts461

I installed a new ATS yesterday.. . .

I will say that trying to manipulate 10 Gage solid wire is a pita, especially in the small compartment I had to work in. . . ..

I wish there was a way to let everyone else know about this issue.

Thanks everyone for your help.

Great news.

Out of curiosity, did your relative indicate the cause of the issue in the first place? If it was just a loose nut then hopefully this was just a factory installation problem and not widespread.

[Motts461]

Yes, he felt it was a loose connection. It has about 9000 miles on it so it may have vibrated loose or not tight enough from the factory, I’ll never know.

[Goodspike]

Originally Posted by Motts461

Yes, he felt it was a loose connection. It has about 9000 miles on it so it may have vibrated loose or not tight enough from the factory, I’ll never know.

I think if there was a problem in only 9,000 miles it was almost certainly too loose from the factory. You won't know if it got looser over time, but it was too loose.

It's an easy mistake to make. This is a somewhat common problem in home circuit breaker boxes.

[1237dmctlc]

Originally Posted by Goodspike

I think if there was a problem in only 9,000 miles it was almost certainly too loose from the factory. You won't know if it got looser over time, but it was too loose.

It's an easy mistake to make. This is a somewhat common problem in home circuit breaker boxes.

I agree its a common mistake unfortunately its also, I think still the 3rd leading cause of residential fires in the United States behind cooking and heating systems. So IMHO its dangerous and these manufacturers need to be held to a higher standard than the already are...I see recalls on a variety of MHs, TTs, 5ers, etc. but this problem is more prevalent though I think is hidden by the fact there's so many opportunities, i.e. loose wires in switches, lights, fans, inside walls. Its almost a must for everyone not to take it for granted to check it out and if an issue drive it to ground to identify the root cause and fix it right. Just my 2 cents...

[Goodspike]

Originally Posted by 1237dmctlc

I agree its a common mistake unfortunately its also, I think still the 3rd leading cause of residential fires in the United States behind cooking and heating systems. So IMHO its dangerous and these manufacturers need to be held to a higher standard than the already are...I see recalls on a variety of MHs, TTs, 5ers, etc. but this problem is more prevalent though I think is hidden by the fact there's so many opportunities, i.e. loose wires in switches, lights, fans, inside walls. Its almost a must for everyone not to take it for granted to check it out and if an issue drive it to ground to identify the root cause and fix it right. Just my 2 cents...

I would agree that would be prudent, and thank your for the stat.

Unfortunately RVs are so compact checking things can be hard. The connection for my power inlet is behind the shower, although maybe it disconnects and pulls out, I've never looked. I was just looking at my breaker box yesterday. I've never opened it up, but it doesn't look that easy to open (but in fairness I was also trying to scope out other components like the charging system, which I suspect are hidden behind the box and accessible by removing a panel. But that equipment is surrounded by the furnace to the right and the refrigerator above. The OP's situation looked relatively accessible, but note the relative to helped with the install complained about the cramped spaces.

I think there are a fair amount of RV fires and I suspect most have electrical origins, although perhaps not 120 volt. Some seem to happen when towing. But not trusting RV electrical systems is why I don't like things like 50 to 30 dogbones.

[jerichorick]

Originally Posted by Motts461

I installed a new ATS yesterday. I wanted to stay with the same set up so I didn't have to mess too much with the wires. I purchased a Southwire 41300, the original was a TRC 41300.

I did put Noalox on all the connections and tried to route them a little better. My brother who was a union electrician for 30 some years gave me a hand. I will say that trying to manipulate 10 Gage solid wire is a pita, especially in the small compartment I had to work in. The other thing is torquing the terminal screws without breaking the damn thing. I also added another strap to the shore cable. That's the terminal that melted and I wasn't sure if pulling the cord in and out to setup may have caused my problem. Winnebago used a 1" strap and a self taper on their strap. I used two 3/4" straps and 1/4" stainless nuts and bolts.

I tested everything and it is working properly. I will be checking all the screws on a regular basis. I wish there was a way to let everyone else know about this issue.

Thanks everyone for your help.

Great! I'm glad you had your brother helping out. I feel comfortable for you and I know the connections will stay put. I have developed the practice of checking the connections a bout a year after replacing the ATS. I often find them a tad bit loose. I think the wire compresses more from heating and cooling with the weather but has a limit that this can happen. Just my observation and opinion, Yes. That space is tight and the wire has a mid of its own.

Happy and safe trails. Safe travels when they happen. I hope you are able to recover from the storm damage quickly.
Rick Y.

[1237dmctlc]

Originally Posted by Goodspike

I would agree that would be prudent, and thank your for the stat.

Unfortunately RVs are so compact checking things can be hard. The connection for my power inlet is behind the shower, although maybe it disconnects and pulls out, I've never looked. I was just looking at my breaker box yesterday. I've never opened it up, but it doesn't look that easy to open (but in fairness I was also trying to scope out other components like the charging system, which I suspect are hidden behind the box and accessible by removing a panel. But that equipment is surrounded by the furnace to the right and the refrigerator above. The OP's situation looked relatively accessible, but note the relative to helped with the install complained about the cramped spaces.

I think there are a fair amount of RV fires and I suspect most have electrical origins, although perhaps not 120 volt. Some seem to happen when towing. But not trusting RV electrical systems is why I don't like things like 50 to 30 dogbones.

I agree the compactness and the locations make it tough to check most connections. I would like to add that I do not recall anyone mentioning the use of "loctite" when checking connection. Rather what I heard mostly is tightening them down and in some cases torquing them. Loctite makes a green loctite for electrical contacts, heck they even have a conductive adhesive that should resolve anything loosening up. I use the green loctite just in case I need to remove or replace anything I'm not sure how the adhesive stuff would work in breaking the bond. Well again glad the OP had professional help and he can put this behind him and enjoy his rig.

[jerichorick]

Originally Posted by 1237dmctlc

I agree the compactness and the locations make it tough to check most connections. I would like to add that I do not recall anyone mentioning the use of "loctite" when checking connection. Rather what I heard mostly is tightening them down and in some cases torquing them. Loctite makes a green loctite for electrical contacts, heck they even have a conductive adhesive that should resolve anything loosening up. I use the green loctite just in case I need to remove or replace anything I'm not sure how the adhesive stuff would work in breaking the bond. Well again glad the OP had professional help and he can put this behind him and enjoy his rig.

I don't know if using Locktite for RV electrical is a good idea. RV's are subject to a wide range of temperatures. True, the Locktite would prevent mechanical loosing of the screws but it would not compensate for the annealing of the wire in the connections due to expansion and contraction. Just my opinion.

When I install a service panel or add a circuit to one I always go back and re-tighten the terminals. Most of the time I find that the wire has relaxed a bit and I can tighten the connection just a bit more. Locktite might mask detection of this happening. I am certain this product has great piratical uses, There would not be a market for it. I just don't trust that I would have trusting success with it.
Happy trails,
Rick Y