30amp to 50amp

[mbruce]

Inquiring about coach has 30 amp shore power plug and automatic line/generator switch rated 120/240 vac 50amp. does that mean coach is 50 amp with wrong plug?

[Goodspike]

It probably just means the line/generator switch is oversized.

Note that a 50 amp service would have four conductors rather than the three that a 30 amp service would have. So it wouldn't be just the plug.

You could look at the main breaker on the circuit breaker panel--if just a single 30 amp, then you just have a 30 amp system. Also I'm not the least bit familiar with the automatic switch you mention, but if you could look at the wires coming out of it, if only three (hot, neutral, ground) then likely your whole system is set up for 30 amp.

[Morich]

There may be confusion on rated versus what is actually used. Rating is the max amount considered safe for that design while what is actually used is almost always less than the rated safe amount.
So your switch may be rated safe to switch 50 but if it only has a 30 cord, it is only wired for 30.

[Goodspike]

There is one other possibility. The generator could be sized such that it needs a 50 amp service and breaker. I have no idea how likely that is. It would need to be a generator something in excess of 3,000-3,500 watts, again with a three conductor circuit (hot/neutral/ground).

Note that still would not necessarily be the same as 50 amp RV service, which is two 50 amp circuits (four conductor).

[BobC]

1. Even though your shore power cord is 30A, I think you'll find that your generator puts out 50 amps total on two circuits. On the generator itself there should be two breakers. One is 30A and one is 20A, for a total of 50A.

2. Your Automatic Transfer Switch (ATF), accordingly, is also rated for 50A.

[Goodspike]

Originally Posted by Goodspike

There is one other possibility. The generator could be sized such that it needs a 50 amp service and breaker. I have no idea how likely that is.

Originally Posted by BobC

1. Even though your shore power cord is 30A, I think you'll find that your generator puts out 50 amps total on two circuits. On the generator itself there should be two breakers. One is 30A and one is 20A, for a total of 50A.

That's a little different than what I was thinking, and the different limits seem odd to me. One would think the generator outputs would be equal, unless that's just an odd RV thing. Also I wonder how they power all the circuits when plugged in--must be something the transfer switch accomplishes.

[BobC]

I notice that the 2002 wiring diagrams show a couple of variations in wiring coming from the generator. In one case it shows two circuits, one 10-2 gauge and one 12-2 gauge, implying two different amp ratings. In another it shows two 10-2 gauge circuits, indicative of equal amp ratings.

http://www.winnebagoind.com/diagram/2000/131741.pdf

This may have to do with the model generator (5000 vs 6500). I suggest you check your generator manual. Your generator breakers (located on the generator) may also be labeled.

In any case, the 50A vs 30A rating isn't anything to be concerned about. If you're skilled in reading schematics, you can probably figure it all out, including how the transfer switch works, but if not, take comfort in that it does work. I had to change out my transfer switch and it was very confusing in terms of understanding it and I'd have to spend some time to refresh my knowledge in order to try to explain it all.

[Goodspike]

Originally Posted by BobC

I notice that the 2002 wiring diagrams show a couple of variations in wiring coming from the generator. In one case it shows two circuits, one 10-2 gauge and one 12-2 gauge, implying two different amp ratings. In another it shows two 10-2 gauge circuits, indicative of equal amp ratings.

http://www.winnebagoind.com/diagram/2000/131741.pdf.

Good find. I'm not seeing how you tell which of the semantics applies to what vehicle, but two of them do appear to have only a 30 amp shore cord and two appear to have 50 amp dual circuit shore cords. And the ones with 50 amp have the same size wire running from both generator circuits, so presumably that is a larger generator.

But in any case if the largest breaker in the load center is a 30, then the power cord should be a 30. It would be very unlikely someone downgraded both the power cord connector and the breakers.

[Morich]

Knowing which year, make, model, and serial number or build date is often critical to looking for info on the drawings as we often think an RV is built the same because it is the same year and model but beyond that it is often true that different dealers order different options and those options are listed on the info we get with new Winnebago, so we need to keep that info for when it becomes critical for repairs.
When looking at these drawings as Winnebago uses them, we need to look at lots of details before we can feel we have the right info. Top left breaks it down into each model by size and letter code like H or N model for a start, then we need to look at what I call bubbles and triangles for more fine detail. Bubbles (lower right) are like the picture I've marked up here and give info like when this drawing was first used and what code for each "bubble" of info. If your sheet doesn't list option 23T, you may need to act different than if it is on your RV! Need parts for the genset? Might be nice to know if you have 40N or 52G!
Then while reading the drawing, look at the triangles and decode them in the lower left side so that you know whether it is info for you to use or ignore!
Like looking for new cars or RV, the more we know to look for details, the better decisions we can make. The low ball price of one may be due to it lacking lots of options that another dealer offers. Built for Canada or US build? Different standards means different RV.

[jerichorick]

Originally Posted by mbruce

Inquiring about coach has 30 amp shore power plug and automatic line/generator switch rated 120/240 vac 50amp. does that mean coach is 50 amp with wrong plug?

50A is a option. Take a look at your brochure: https://winnebago.com/brochure-archi...del=Adventurer
Which cord plug do you have? 3 or 4 prong? 4 prong is 50A.

[1237dmctlc]

Not sure of your Camper but some provide options like that for a 2nd AC unit. They could go as far a putting a larger 50A since it may not cost anymore than a 30A.... of course I doubt the industry would think like that.... IMHO

[BigA]

I just bought a 2000 Adventurer 35B with the 30 amp cord and completed the 50 amp upgrade. There are lots of threads on upgrading and I also found directions posted on Youtube. You need to understand that 50 amp is actually two 50 amp 120 volt circuits as opposed to 30 amp which is only one 120 volt circuit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UkkSPkv0Yo

for the 37U.

The key to the upgrade is the 50 amp was an option, so on mine the transfer switch was already 50 amp. Likewise the circuit breaker panel can be converted by removing a jumper between the two phases and putting in a dual 20/50 50/20 amp breaker which was less than $30. Your big expenses are a 50 amp shore cord and the 6 -3 with ground wire from the transfer switch to the breaker panel.

It is a pain to run the 6 -3 wire / with ground from the transfer switch to the circuit breaker panel because the wire is so thick. People mention that the hardest part is running the neutral through the current sense toroid (donut) on the EMS board.

If you don't understand electricity hire someone to do it as there is no margin for error.

Alex C.

[Goodspike]

Originally Posted by BigA

You need to understand that 50 amp is actually two 50 amp 120 volt circuits as opposed to 30 amp which is only one 120 volt circuit.

. . .

The key to the upgrade is the 50 amp was an option, so on mine the transfer switch was already 50 amp. Likewise the circuit breaker panel can be converted by removing a jumper between the two phases and putting in a dual 20/50 50/20 amp breaker which was less than $30.

I like the idea of upgrading the electrical, but how do you pick which circuits get power when you use a 30 to 50 dogbone? Don't most 50 systems just run one A/C off the second circuit? So when you only have 30 amp power everything works but the one A/C?

I'm not seeing the point of using both circuits of power on an RV that doesn't have that much electrical demand, as opposed to merely upgrading the one of the circuits. That would still require upgrading the gauge of wire, but if your ATS and breaker box are both rated for 50 amp, why add the second circuit?

[jerichorick]

Originally Posted by Goodspike

I like the idea of upgrading the electrical, but how do you pick which circuits get power when you use a 30 to 50 dogbone? Don't most 50 systems just run one A/C off the second circuit? So when you only have 30 amp power everything works but the one A/C?

I'm not seeing the point of using both circuits of power on an RV that doesn't have that much electrical demand, as opposed to merely upgrading the one of the circuits. That would still require upgrading the gauge of wire, but if your ATS and breaker box are both rated for 50 amp, why add the second circuit?

I don't know if what follows will help or muddy the waters.
Question: What is your requirement for upgrading to 50A? Do you not have enough power for your appliances to run all at the same time?
To upgrade, you will have to change the power cord to a #6 3 wire with ground, add a new power receiver in the side wall of the trailer, option the transfer switch for 50A and option the service panel for 240/120V service. Is all of this expense and effort needed by you? (Once the service panel is optioned for 240V the circuit distribution take care of themselves.)

If you were in a larger unit or using space heater and electric frying pan at the same time with other 120V appliances than it might be worth the expense and effort.
I am willing to help you through the process. Let me know.
Rick Y

[BobC]

My only interest in upgrading to 50A is our basement A/C. It will run on 30A, but with little "head room" for anything else. On the other hand, we don't often stay at big, commercial RV parks so I don't remember noticing that many 50A shore power pedestals in our travels.

[Goodspike]

Originally Posted by jerichorick

I don't know if what follows will help or muddy the waters.
Question: What is your requirement for upgrading to 50A? Do you not have enough power for your appliances to run all at the same time?
To upgrade, you will have to change the power cord to a #6 3 wire with ground, add a new power receiver in the side wall of the trailer, option the transfer switch for 50A and option the service panel for 240/120V service. Is all of this expense and effort needed by you? (Once the service panel is optioned for 240V the circuit distribution take care of themselves.)
Rick Y

My point was slightly different. They could upgrade to only one 50 amp circuit and not two. To do that they would only need to run new cable and upgrade the main breaker since the transfer switch is already rated for 50 amp, and I believe the breaker box is too (although both would need to be verified).

The reason to do that would be that it is relatively easy to trip a main breaker in a 30 amp system. There was a thread here on that happening when running the A/C and a hair dryer, but there are lots of other combinations since 30 amps isn't that much power. In those scenarios neither branch circuit would be overloaded, but the main would trip. If you upgraded the cord and other wiring all the way to the breaker box, and installed a 50 amp main breaker that wouldn't happen.

If you were going to do that I'd might still use four conductor wire, just in case you wanted to upgrade later, but depending on the RV that might be totally unnecessary. Unless you could have a second A/C I doubt you'd ever need more than a single 50 amp circuit.

[Goodspike]

Originally Posted by Goodspike

My point was slightly different. They could upgrade to only one 50 amp circuit and not two. To do that they would only need to run new cable and upgrade the main breaker since the transfer switch is already rated for 50 amp, and I believe the breaker box is too (although both would need to be verified).

BTW, a minor secondary benefit of doing this is the use of a 50 to 30 amp dogbone adapter when no 50 amp outlet is available would be perfectly safe. It would be much better than having to use a 50 amp outlet when no 30 is available.

[jerichorick]

Originally Posted by Goodspike

My point was slightly different. They could upgrade to only one 50 amp circuit and not two. To do that they would only need to run new cable and upgrade the main breaker since the transfer switch is already rated for 50 amp, and I believe the breaker box is too (although both would need to be verified).

The reason to do that would be that it is relatively easy to trip a main breaker in a 30 amp system. There was a thread here on that happening when running the A/C and a hair dryer, but there are lots of other combinations since 30 amps isn't that much power. In those scenarios neither branch circuit would be overloaded, but the main would trip. If you upgraded the cord and other wiring all the way to the breaker box, and installed a 50 amp main breaker that wouldn't happen.

If you were going to do that I'd might still use four conductor wire, just in case you wanted to upgrade later, but depending on the RV that might be totally unnecessary. Unless you could have a second A/C I doubt you'd ever need more than a single 50 amp circuit.

Your idea, though possible to do, is not in code and could produce unforeseen or predictable results. Not a good way to go at all.

[jerichorick]

Originally Posted by BobC

My only interest in upgrading to 50A is our basement A/C. It will run on 30A, but with little "head room" for anything else. On the other hand, we don't often stay at big, commercial RV parks so I don't remember noticing that many 50A shore power pedestals in our travels.

That is a good plan in your case.

http://www.winnebagoind.com/diagram/...ire_137068.pdf
If you look at the second diagram you see the power cord is 6/3 and the feed to the service panel is also 6/3. Not a bad way to go. Pulling the wire in may be the biggest challenge.

[Goodspike]

Originally Posted by jerichorick

Your idea, though possible to do, is not in code and could produce unforeseen or predictable results. Not a good way to go at all.

In what way would it not be code or lead to unforeseen and unpredictable results?

As long as all the wiring to the breaker box was upgraded and both the ATS and breaker box were rated for 50 amps, it would be no different than a 2 circuit 50 amp system that only has a 2nd A/C connected to the second circuit when that 2nd A/C is either not installed or not running.