Kicked out of a Vermont State Park

[DavidM]

A few days ago I was denied entry to a Vermont state park. Apparently Vermont has new restrictions and one has to self quarantine at home (if allowed, see below) or self quarantine in Vermont for 14 days before you can enter a state park.

The check in guy had an online map that showed all of the counties in my state of Connecticut and presumably other states. Connecticut is a rather good state for Covid 19, and was I thought in a group of New England states that had common policies. Well Vermont is not in that group and sets their own (draconian) rules.

There were yellow counties and red counties. I live in a yellow county which lets me self quarantine at home in order to meet Vermont's requirements. If you live in a red county, apparently you can only quarantine in Vermont or maybe you can't come at all.

The check in guy didn't try to help me a bit. After I said we stayed at home and didn't socialize he asked if we had been to a grocery store and we said yes, once during the last two weeks. That was enough to disqualify our "self quarantining".

So my advice is to stay away from Vermont for the time being. FWIW after driving many hours back home we booked a place in Massachusetts and one in our home state both of which which worked fine.

David

[Morich]

With no leadership and national policy, we are each left to make due the best we can and if a state doesn't set the policy, it often gets pushed down to county or even city levels to try to set some sort of policy.
Here in Texas, the decision was avoided by the state and left to cities but when cities set rules that the state did not agree with, the state then decided after the fact to tell the cities they were wrong, leaving everybody totally in the dark and confused. One sure way to get the body count up is to not have any consistent rule and nobody knowing who to ask.
We are no longer fifty united states but a group of fifty wishing we were someplace else but we are such low life that even the Bahamas do not want us to travel there!

[Goodspike]

Originally Posted by Morich

We are no longer fifty united states but a group of fifty wishing we were someplace else but we are such low life that even the Bahamas do not want us to travel there!

I think it makes sense to leave it to the states. We are a large country and situations vary widely.

But in a sense it really doesn't matter because we don't have the guts to do what is necessary--shut down passenger air travel entirely, or at a minimum somehow restrict who can travel by air. We do that for other countries, but not within the country even for areas that have had huge outbreaks (e.g. NYC/NJ).

[Topsail]

Originally Posted by Goodspike

I think it makes sense to leave it to the states. We are a large country and situations vary widely.

But in a sense it really doesn't matter because we don't have the guts to do what is necessary--shut down passenger air travel entirely, or at a minimum somehow restrict who can travel by air. We do that for other countries, but not within the country even for areas that have had huge outbreaks (e.g. NYC/NJ).

Yep, have to agree with you Goodspike. I don't get it when people want the same guidelines (restrictions) for every state and area. We don't need the same rules that NYC needs.

[Blastvalve]

I’m sorry you had this experience here, VT is a very tourism dependent state so it’s disheartening to hear this was your experience.

Vt enacted these rules back in June, we personally changed our summer camping plans to remain in state as to not be caught by surprise at that last minute if a neighboring state county changed. In effect, if the county you are coming from has a higher number per million then VT does, then you need to quarantine. The map is updated on a weekly basis every Friday around 11am (to line up with the Gov’s weekly news update)

For anyone looking to visit, this is the online map that was referenced, lots here on the “rules”:

https://accd.vermont.gov/covid-19/re...s-state-travel

And the State parks have the rules posted on their site as well:

https://vtstateparks.blogspot.com/20...9-updates.html

All the private parks I’ve stayed at this summer in VT have had similar rules as the state parks, I would speculate they are just following their lead rather then trying to craft their own rules.

Again, I’m really sorry to hear this happened to you, I can’t imagine how frustrating it must have been to get turned around like that and have to leave.

[DavidM]

Blastvalve:

Thanks for your kind words. It was frustrating and felt like Big Brother had just grabbed me, spun me around and kicked my butt out of the state. Also thanks for the link. I note that the two SW counties in Vermont are in the same case rate catagory as my Connecticut county in the NW of the state. I wonder if someone from those Vermont counties gets kicked out like I did.

David

[Blastvalve]

My pleasure and I’m really sorry it went down the way it did. Our state is having enough budget issues with the loss in tourism, we can’t afford to go around upsetting those that are coming! (And from a hospitality standpoint it sounds like it could have been handled a lot better)

I actually was just looking at those maps on Friday, we were supposed to visit family in upper NW CT but with the change in color we passed, the kids started school this week and the forms I needed to sign for that had very similar rules as the campground. What was frustrating is our family is very near the MA and NY borders, (within 5 miles in fact) and those two neighboring counties would have been ok.

[Goodspike]

FWIW, Washington State Parks just extended the reservation period for a number of parks, further into fall.

I think Oregon started charging out of state people more to stay, but that probably is budget related, not Covid-19. I can sort of see that since taxes pay for at least part of the parks.

[Morich]

Originally Posted by Goodspike

I think it makes sense to leave it to the states. We are a large country and situations vary widely.

But in a sense it really doesn't matter because we don't have the guts to do what is necessary--shut down passenger air travel entirely, or at a minimum somehow restrict who can travel by air. We do that for other countries, but not within the country even for areas that have had huge outbreaks (e.g. NYC/NJ).

The reason for me to think it silly to leave it to each state is the amount of traffic across state lines. Think of how many major metro areas are actually in two or more states where folks live in one and work in another? I'm sure it is even more problem in the crowded parts like the NE but just think of the problems for Illinois to control the spread if the only thing between them and Missouri is a river and 1/4 of the metro population crosses the river to work every day. Texas did attempt in a kind of half hearted way to shut down traffic from La. and New Orleans once it became obvious that it was setting a fire but it was not at all effective when so many people work on the other side of the line.
Money and greed killed lots of sailors because we would not shut off the lights along the coasts during WWII and now lots of people will die because we were not willing to shut down in most of the country. South Dakota and the Northern rim will be paying a heavy price as the weather goes downhill and they have not made any provisions for safety.
It's all a hoax up until it's your family that is dying! So far it has mostly been in the crowded low income groups that had to continue to work but now that colleges are open, it's going to get into the middle and upper group much quicker.

[Goodspike]

Yeah, NJ probably has had so many cases/deaths due to proximity to NYC. Only the federal government could totally shut down Interstate traffic, but I think there's little risk at the Washington/Idaho border.

So regardless of who is in control, it needs to be different rules in different places. Nothing is more evident of that than K-12 education, where many areas should be remote only and some can be nearly normal. It would be a real disservice to the kids in the latter area to make them learn remotely.

[AJMike]

Originally Posted by Morich

The reason for me to think it silly to leave it to each state is the amount of traffic across state lines.

I am (thankfully) not a lawyer but I am pretty sure the Federal government does not have the authority to set those kind of rules. The constitution limits what the central government can do and so it is up to the states.

Freedom of travel is guaranteed by the constitution and early attempts by some states to prevent visitors from other states crossing the border were stopped because of the freedom of travel.

[partisan political content removed - please refrain form discussing candidates and election politics]

[scottrose]

For those wishing to travel to Vermont, it's best to call ahead as not all campgrounds enforce the quarantine rule. We recently camped through New England, calling ahead and had no issue in Vt and NY.

[jerilo]

Like everything else in these times all of our views on issues are governed by our politics. We all want the freedom to go where we want when we want but that is not going to happen for now. My gripe is that masks are required in bathrooms in all state parks I have been to. In northern PA, it is rare to find anyone wearing a mask. In southern PA, there is much more compliance, same as New York State. In PA I waited ten minutes for kids to leave the bathroom and had to finally do a "get off my lawn" which they found funny. I didn't appreciate that. While it is great to travel with your own bathroom and sink, when I dry camp I appreciate and should be able to use the facilities in accordance with the law. But people...

[Noah4448]

The president has a lot of authority. He should have mandated masks for all federal facilities and military personel in February 2020. He should have recommended masks for everyone when ever indoors. He should have gotten the Governors together with scientists to come up with regional plans like NE did. He should have followed science not politics. He should have told the truth in Feb 2020 when he knew it. He should be setting the example for indoor and outdoor masking based on local laws. Masks should be manadatory in the White House. Setting example is one of the biggest powers the "Bully Pulpit" has. Gernamny did these things. If the USA had done them and people had died at the same ratio as Germany approximately 150,000 Americans would be alive that are now dead from COVID. So wear your mask and be safe be healthy.

[Morich]

BUT my name is KAREN !

[highfeather]

I live in NM and love our state parks. They have been open to day use only, and then to day use only by NM residents since March. I had an annual pass that was good through June, not inexpensive, and it has now expired and there's not rebate. But I'm dealing with the loss of the pass and our parks if it keeps the reckless and fleckless out of our State. We are managing very well because our Gov. has put and kept restrictions in place. Sadly it is on the heads of State and Local Govts to bare the brunt of criticisms for doing the right thing right. NO NATIONAL LEADERSHIP has put us #1 in the world for infections and deaths and no, a herd mentality, is not going to make it go away.

[AJMike]

Originally Posted by Noah4448

Gernamny did these things.

The President did have the authority to require masks of parts of the Federal government but not of the states, and perhaps he should have done that. But I think it is worth commenting that the WHO has stated that it does not think that masks are an effective preventative when it comes to COVID-19 so I am not so sure the evidence is quite as clear cut as you suggest. I wear a mask and gloves when I go shopping and when I use facilities like filling stations, and I would encourage others to do the same, but I understand that not everyone thinks that they are effective in stopping the virus. Personally I don't think that we are going to get out of this until there is an effective vaccine without serious side effects.

As for Germany, the US is not Germany and the US government does not have the authority to order the kinds of things the German government can.

[golden13]

I guess I don't see how things "vary wildly." The precautions are universal, the disease is what it is. All it does is rationalize certain areas refusing to use reasonable precautions, usually for silly political "reasons." That sheriff in FL who said he'd fire his deputies if they wore a mask is a good example.

Originally Posted by Goodspike

I think it makes sense to leave it to the states. We are a large country and situations vary widely.

But in a sense it really doesn't matter because we don't have the guts to do what is necessary--shut down passenger air travel entirely, or at a minimum somehow restrict who can travel by air. We do that for other countries, but not within the country even for areas that have had huge outbreaks (e.g. NYC/NJ).

[Morich]

Anybody much past ten will know that the worst thing you can do on a health issue is ignore it, so all the rest is just politics and trying to rationalize what has been done.

[Santara]

Originally Posted by Noah4448

The president has a lot of authority. He should have mandated masks for all federal facilities and military personel in February 2020. He should have recommended masks for everyone when ever indoors. He should have gotten the Governors together with scientists to come up with regional plans like NE did. He should have followed science not politics. He should have told the truth in Feb 2020 when he knew it. He should be setting the example for indoor and outdoor masking based on local laws. Masks should be manadatory in the White House. Setting example is one of the biggest powers the "Bully Pulpit" has. Gernamny did these things. If the USA had done them and people had died at the same ratio as Germany approximately 150,000 Americans would be alive that are now dead from COVID. So wear your mask and be safe be healthy.

Get off yout poltic speech, dosnt belong on here