Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 09-27-2012, 01:15 AM   #1
Winnebago Camper
 
capnqball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: NW OREGON
Posts: 24
Fiberglass thermal cracking on Win/Itasca

We were excited to find what seemed the perfect package (coach and toad) only to find thermal cracking in the darker colors on a 36G (2005). As I have read this was a Owens-Corning defect in f/g panels for several years. I had not read anything regarding Win/Itasca being affected. Can anyone enlighten me on this issue? I would like to know more if this cracking is somewhat "terminal"? When did Win/Itasca change their methods to eliminate this problem. Thermal cracking has been discussed on other forums before but I had not read it here.
capnqball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2012, 01:20 AM   #2
Winnebago Master
 
Mr_D's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Vancouver, WA
Posts: 560
Cure is to replace the whole side of the RV. On our DSDP that's an $18,000 cost per side.
__________________
2009 45' Magna 630 w/Cummins ISX 650 HP/1950 Lbs Ft
Charter Lifetime GS Member, SKP, FMCA,
RV'ing since 1957, NRA Benefactor Life, towing '14 CR-V
Mr_D is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2012, 03:04 AM   #3
Winnebago Owner
 
Tony Lee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Peru heading for Brasilia, Brazil
Posts: 55
Or if the price is right - very right - just accept it as a cosmetic thing
__________________
Tony Lee - International Grey Nomad. Picasa Album - Travel Map
RVs. USA - Airstream Cutter; in Australia - MC8 40' DIY Coach conversion & OKA 4x4 MH; in Germany - Hobby Class C; in S America - F350 with 2500 10.6 Bigfoot camper
Tony Lee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2012, 08:11 AM   #4
Winnebago Owner
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 111
I talked to Dave Nagel of CDI who does all painting for Winnie factory. He told me is is tiny cracks in the paint with dark colors showing it more. The fix is to do a paint job. He said they charge about $12,000 for a full body job. Mine has it and the dark colors have more cracking. Not noticeable except up real close.

I suspect the heat held by dark colors is a factor plus the white f the Fiberglas shows more against the dark color.

My rig is '05 Itasca Meridian 36G.
__________________
Doug and Cassi
'05 Itasca Meridian 36G
'99 Jeep Wrangler
OldChief7155 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2012, 09:27 AM   #5
Winnebago Master
 
FIRE UP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Out there, somewhere
Posts: 1,586
CapnQball,
We've seen this condition on multiple brands/styles of Class A coaches in a wide year range. It's been discussed several times and the majority of folks who've either had/have it, and or have dealt with it have called it: "Crazing". The condition, based on multiple testimonies, is in the fiberglass panels installed from the factory and manifests itself some time after the first sale of the coach, when new.

Some have been fortunate, if you call it fortunate, to have had this condition start to appear while the coach is under warranty. Those are the REALLY fortunate people because, as has been stated, the entire fiberglass panel/side of the coach, MUST BE REPLACED! It is NOT a paint condition. The manufacturers have admitted they received fiberglass panels of inferior quality and, while they SAY they didn't know it at the time of installation, they were forced to deal with it when the coach was under warranty.

Some folks who, were not so lucky and wanted to have the condition corrected, have paid very high prices for re-paint of the coach, only to have the condition, reappear some time later. Yes, you can "mask" the condition with a repaint, but, as I am lead to believe, and I'm certainly no expert here, it WILL return because, it's in the glass, not the paint and or prep.

We looked as several Meridians, Monaco's, Providences, Discoveries, Country Coaches that had/have that condition. Yep, it's true that the condition is more prevalent in the darker colors but, it does appear in the lighter ones too, from time to time. We walked away from many a-nice coach due to this condition. We certainly were not going to pay a high price and then, turn right around and pay another high price for repainting a coach, only to have it return at a later date. Here's one we almost made a deal on, during an inspection in a rain storm that masked the condition. We returned a week or two later to take a test drive and the sun was out and so was the condition. We walked.
Scott
__________________
2004 ITASCA HORIZON 36GD, 2011 GMC Sierra 1500 4x4 Toad '08 GL 1800 Gold Wing
Retired-29.5 yrs, SDFD, Ham - KI6OND
Me, Karla and the Sophie character, (mini Schnauzer)
FIRE UP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2012, 11:16 AM   #6
Winnie-Wise
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 354
Thermal cracking, great. I have poor clear coat that continues to flake away, some of it was covered under warranty in 2005. But now the clear coat flakes away on the back cap, and engine cover. I'm now getting small dots on one side the same that I can see in the picture. This RV is kept at my house, washed and waxed often. One positive, the roof of my RV has a great finish and looks like new.

Don't forget the expoy joints continue to loosen I wonder what is next. That said, the Freightliner power train is the best; strong and dependable. The "House" portion has been consistently good.

It's nice of Dave Nagel offering to repaint a poor initial paint job for $12,000. Too bad it wasn't done right the first time. How many poor paint jobs are on the road and he still has the contract!

Four years ago I was at a Winnebago rally and told the West Coast Winnebago Rep about my paint, he said "Sorry it's out of warranty." I thought I paid once for a good paint job!

I have had two other motorhomes, six trucks, numerous cars and of the paint jobs aged well with no disappointments. Compare that with the poorest paint job I have on the most expensive vehicle I have purchased.

When people ask me about the overall product, I reply honestly. Referrals to Winnebago, be honest? Hope you got good fiberglass and a good paint job!
Gary CA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2012, 07:06 PM   #7
Winnebago Camper
 
capnqball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: NW OREGON
Posts: 24
The big question I have now is when did Winnebago change their FG panels to eliminate the issue? 2006? 2007? The '05 owner I talked to didn't know anything about this issue. I felt bad for having to tell him his coach has a 'pox' and it's not likely to get better.
capnqball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2012, 07:12 PM   #8
Winnebago Camper
 
capnqball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: NW OREGON
Posts: 24
Another question: Has anyone definitively stated whether this crazing will or will not migrate deep enough to cause delam in some forseeable future?
capnqball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2012, 12:23 AM   #9
Winnebago Master
 
FIRE UP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Out there, somewhere
Posts: 1,586
capnqball,
To my knowledge, and based on the amount of reading and research I've done on this "Crazing" thing, I've seen no evidence, reported or otherwise eluding to the fact that crazing will eventually lead to delamination of the paneling to the coach structure. Also, the best of my knowledge, it's primarily a surface issue and doesn't go very deep but, sure causes enough damage to wreak havoc on paint jobs of very nice looking motor homes.

We almost made a commitment on a Mountain Air about 400 miles away from us. We looked at a zillion pictures from the dealer and it looked really nice. But, when I finally got a sales person on the phone, I asked him to go out and make sure, this rig had ABSOLUTELY NO CRAZING on it prior to our driving such a long distance to do a more serious inspection and test drive. He came back to the phone and said, yep, it's got crazing and, he was embarrassed that it was not reported in the ad.
Scott
__________________
2004 ITASCA HORIZON 36GD, 2011 GMC Sierra 1500 4x4 Toad '08 GL 1800 Gold Wing
Retired-29.5 yrs, SDFD, Ham - KI6OND
Me, Karla and the Sophie character, (mini Schnauzer)
FIRE UP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2012, 03:15 AM   #10
Winnebago Camper
 
capnqball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: NW OREGON
Posts: 24
Thank you all for your replies on my questions. We have pretty much decided to not pursue the '05 36G due to the crazing in the darker colors. I'm pretty picky on stuff like this and I know it would bug me to no end as I watched our "baby" get progressively worse. We have now found an '07 which so far on initial inspection didn't have the crazing. I wish I knew when the factory changed things to alleviate the issue. If I call the factory I'm not sure what they would tell me, if anything, as I'm not yet an owner. I might try tomorrow anyway. More to come, maybe..........
capnqball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2012, 04:45 AM   #11
Winnebago Owner
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: chokoloskee, fl 34138
Posts: 126
paint job will not fix it. I had mine done at precision painting in bremen, ind and the cracks can be seen under the paint, just a matter of time before it comes through the paint
__________________
2016 Dynamax DX3
USCG Ret BMCM
ron55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2012, 05:20 AM   #12
Winnebago Camper
 
woodburner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Mentor Ohio
Posts: 6
Implied Warranty of Merchantability Law & Legal Definition



An implied warranty is a contract law term for certain assurances that are presumed in the sale of products or real property. It arises from a transaction. It is the inherent understanding by the buyer, rather than from the express representations of the seller. There are implied warranties in every sales transaction that the goods sold are fit for the ordinary purposes for which such goods are used. This is called the implied warranty of merchantability. Implied warranty of merchantability is an unwritten and unspoken guarantee to the buyer that goods purchased conform to ordinary standards of care. Under such warranty of merchantability, the goods sold: are fit for the ordinary purposes for which such goods are used, would pass without objection in the trade, is adequately packaged, labeled, and conforms to the promises made in the label. The policy behind the implied warranty of merchantability is to motivate the seller to ensure the product's proper performance before placing it on the market.


I would pursue this vigorously in the event I had the problem stated.
__________________
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
2012 Tiffin Allegro 34TGA
2013 Jeep Wrangler Sport
woodburner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2012, 12:45 PM   #13
Winnebago Master
 
FIRE UP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Out there, somewhere
Posts: 1,586
Quote:
Originally Posted by capnqball View Post
Thank you all for your replies on my questions. We have pretty much decided to not pursue the '05 36G due to the crazing in the darker colors. I'm pretty picky on stuff like this and I know it would bug me to no end as I watched our "baby" get progressively worse. We have now found an '07 which so far on initial inspection didn't have the crazing. I wish I knew when the factory changed things to alleviate the issue. If I call the factory I'm not sure what they would tell me, if anything, as I'm not yet an owner. I might try tomorrow anyway. More to come, maybe..........
capnqball,
Well Sir, I think you're wise for walking away from a unit that has crazing on it. As previously stated, we walked away from a few that otherwise would have been pretty much what we wanted. But, in paying as much as we did and you will, we too could not walk out and see, EVERY DAY, the effects of that crazing and knowing it will NEVER get better. I have no idea when any of the manufacturers changed requirements and or chemical makeup of the FG panels that are on their coaches now. I'm not sure anyone does, with the exception of the management of those firms.

All you can do is continue to pursue the rig of your dreams and if you find one, and it has no crazing, that will not develop any in the near or distant future. Good luck.
Scott

Quote:
Originally Posted by ron55 View Post
paint job will not fix it. I had mine done at precision painting in bremen, ind and the cracks can be seen under the paint, just a matter of time before it comes through the paint
ron55,
Yes Sir, roger that. As I stated in an earlier responce, it's not in the paint, it's in the glass. You can have your rig painted every day if you like, and it will still re-appear. Painting simply "maskes" the issues, for a short while. Then, just about when you've made your last payment ON THE PAINT JOB, the crazing starts to reappear. Many people have reported that exact scenario, time and time again.
Scott
__________________
2004 ITASCA HORIZON 36GD, 2011 GMC Sierra 1500 4x4 Toad '08 GL 1800 Gold Wing
Retired-29.5 yrs, SDFD, Ham - KI6OND
Me, Karla and the Sophie character, (mini Schnauzer)
FIRE UP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2012, 01:07 PM   #14
Winnebago Master
 
Mr_D's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Vancouver, WA
Posts: 560
Quote:
Originally Posted by FIRE UP View Post
CapnQball,
We've seen this condition on multiple brands/styles of Class A coaches in a wide year range. It's been discussed several times and the majority of folks who've either had/have it, and or have dealt with it have called it: "Crazing". The condition, based on multiple testimonies, is in the fiberglass panels installed from the factory and manifests itself some time after the first sale of the coach, when new.

Some have been fortunate, if you call it fortunate, to have had this condition start to appear while the coach is under warranty. Those are the REALLY fortunate people because, as has been stated, the entire fiberglass panel/side of the coach, MUST BE REPLACED! It is NOT a paint condition. The manufacturers have admitted they received fiberglass panels of inferior quality and, while they SAY they didn't know it at the time of installation, they were forced to deal with it when the coach was under warranty.

Some folks who, were not so lucky and wanted to have the condition corrected, have paid very high prices for re-paint of the coach, only to have the condition, reappear some time later. Yes, you can "mask" the condition with a repaint, but, as I am lead to believe, and I'm certainly no expert here, it WILL return because, it's in the glass, not the paint and or prep.

We looked as several Meridians, Monaco's, Providences, Discoveries, Country Coaches that had/have that condition. Yep, it's true that the condition is more prevalent in the darker colors but, it does appear in the lighter ones too, from time to time. We walked away from many a-nice coach due to this condition. We certainly were not going to pay a high price and then, turn right around and pay another high price for repainting a coach, only to have it return at a later date. Here's one we almost made a deal on, during an inspection in a rain storm that masked the condition. We returned a week or two later to take a test drive and the sun was out and so was the condition. We walked.
Scott
Yep, that's what ours looks like. The rig is 10 years old now so it's not really worth spending $36,000 to have two new sides put on and repainted now. The condition did start showing up during the warranty period but Newmar said they would "buff it out" and it'd be fine. Well, it isn't and I'm not sure any of the paperwork from 2004 shows that I brought it up during the warranty period. If it does I suppose I could pursue it further but my wife may have liver/pancreas cancer so that's taking precedence right now!
__________________
2009 45' Magna 630 w/Cummins ISX 650 HP/1950 Lbs Ft
Charter Lifetime GS Member, SKP, FMCA,
RV'ing since 1957, NRA Benefactor Life, towing '14 CR-V
Mr_D is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2012, 12:21 AM   #15
Winnebago Camper
 
capnqball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: NW OREGON
Posts: 24
Well folks, this afternoon I called Winnebago Industries Customer Service. They did ask for a VIN but I explained we were looking hard at a couple coaches and needed to have something explained. I simply asked, since I knew the '05's were falling victim to the crazing, if he knew when the company changed panel vendor/material to alleviate the problem. His answer was sobering, stating that there were "some" coaches even in '09 that may have had those panels used. I left it at that as he seemed like he didn't want to carry the conversation further. So I pretty much received my answer as to when the problem would be unlikely, now to decide what the next move will be.
capnqball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2012, 06:58 AM   #16
Winnebago Master
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: North East Indiana
Posts: 762
WOODBURNER: Very good advice. I got my motor home completely re-bodied from using this approach. No I never had to hire an attorney, although it was clear that I would if necessary.
Izzyblueye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2012, 04:57 AM   #17
Winnebago Owner
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 111
Izzy,


Can you send me an e-mail of how I can contact you regarding the paint/side panel replacement issue? I've had a senior moment and can't remember how to PM.

My e-mail is [email protected]


Thanks,

DOUG
__________________
Doug and Cassi
'05 Itasca Meridian 36G
'99 Jeep Wrangler
OldChief7155 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2012, 05:05 AM   #18
Winnebago Owner
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 111
Izzy,


Brain cell re-generated. I sent you a p.m.
__________________
Doug and Cassi
'05 Itasca Meridian 36G
'99 Jeep Wrangler
OldChief7155 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2012, 02:09 PM   #19
Winnebago Owner
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by capnqball View Post
Thank you all for your replies on my questions. We have pretty much decided to not pursue the '05 36G due to the crazing in the darker colors. I'm pretty picky on stuff like this and I know it would bug me to no end as I watched our "baby" get progressively worse. We have now found an '07 which so far on initial inspection didn't have the crazing. I wish I knew when the factory changed things to alleviate the issue. If I call the factory I'm not sure what they would tell me, if anything, as I'm not yet an owner. I might try tomorrow anyway. More to come, maybe..........
Our 2006 has it. Gets a bit worse each year. We really notice it when we hand wax the coach.
__________________
NoMoreAZ

2006 Itasca Horizon 40KD, 2004 Honda CR-V
NoMoreAZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Fiberglass sidewall cracking JoeCastor General Maintenance and Repair 16 08-22-2014 08:58 PM
AC Workhorse/WIN-A Bagal Trek-Cyclist Electrical | Charging, Solar and Electronics 14 04-02-2005 04:33 PM

» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Winnebago Industries or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:08 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
×