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Old 06-11-2008, 06:34 AM   #1
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Just an update on the ongoing basement ac problem, picked up my coach from Lodgemobile in Burbank yesterday, the final outcome on the AC was both temp sensors(small white wires with sensor ends attached to each condensor coil) were bad, plus the squirrel cage and bearings were also bad. He replace the cage with the new all in one plastic squirrel cage with no bearings , he told me that they have problems with almost all the metal ones that come in.
He showed me about 30 old basement AC's laying around and different problems they all had. I asked him about the seperated ducting and he told me the 2005 and newer models had a different design and never seem to be a problem and my checked out fine. He also went on to say in his opinion even thought they are not perfect, Winnebago is by far one of the best coaches he deals with when it comes to the poor basement AC design. In my opinion if you can find a smaller repair shop that deals with these you will be better off. The total repair bill was under 500.00 and I was happy!
I picked up the coach and it was 89 inside and out, turned on the ac down to 60 and went outside to hear the unit and was amazed how quiet it was compared the the battle tank sound that used to be. Drove the 5 miles home and kept the AC going for about a hour until it hit about 66 and that was about as good as it was going to get, 23 less and I was again happy, but then because I now can, I fired up the new roof ac I installed a few weeks ago before having this problem fixed and in 30 minutes more was at 58 and now I am ready for aging meat and Lake Havasu this summer, that is If I can Afford the fuel by then

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Old 06-11-2008, 06:34 AM   #2
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Just an update on the ongoing basement ac problem, picked up my coach from Lodgemobile in Burbank yesterday, the final outcome on the AC was both temp sensors(small white wires with sensor ends attached to each condensor coil) were bad, plus the squirrel cage and bearings were also bad. He replace the cage with the new all in one plastic squirrel cage with no bearings , he told me that they have problems with almost all the metal ones that come in.
He showed me about 30 old basement AC's laying around and different problems they all had. I asked him about the seperated ducting and he told me the 2005 and newer models had a different design and never seem to be a problem and my checked out fine. He also went on to say in his opinion even thought they are not perfect, Winnebago is by far one of the best coaches he deals with when it comes to the poor basement AC design. In my opinion if you can find a smaller repair shop that deals with these you will be better off. The total repair bill was under 500.00 and I was happy!
I picked up the coach and it was 89 inside and out, turned on the ac down to 60 and went outside to hear the unit and was amazed how quiet it was compared the the battle tank sound that used to be. Drove the 5 miles home and kept the AC going for about a hour until it hit about 66 and that was about as good as it was going to get, 23 less and I was again happy, but then because I now can, I fired up the new roof ac I installed a few weeks ago before having this problem fixed and in 30 minutes more was at 58 and now I am ready for aging meat and Lake Havasu this summer, that is If I can Afford the fuel by then

Thanks!
Ben
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Old 06-11-2008, 07:08 AM   #3
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Thanks for the follow up. Thrilled to hear the outcome!

Also THRILLED to hear that the duct seperating thing has been redesigned for '05 and up models.

I am surprised that BOTH Thermisters (wires with sensors) were bad.
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Old 06-11-2008, 10:29 AM   #4
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Ben - good to hear all is well

One thing with our new AC unit (replaced last summer) we noticed almost immediately was how much quieter it was, both outside and inside. The deep and resonating rumbling noise very noticeable in the bedroom with the original unit is gone.

We have never had a duct separation issue, so maybe it *was* primarily on <=2004 products.

When we were in Gila Bend two days ago, the ambient air temp climbed to over 110 (think it got up to 112) - the best we could cool the coach down to was 89. At that point it was a little uncomfortable, but that only lasted for about an hour or two. The addition of a roof air would make a huge difference (or an alternate will be to never be in Gila Bend in June )
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Old 06-11-2008, 10:55 AM   #5
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John how much is a new unit and how much should one expect to pay for the labor?


Thanks
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Old 06-11-2008, 01:58 PM   #6
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by peter griffin:
John how much is a new unit and how much should one expect to pay for the labor?
Thanks </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Peter - don't have a clue since this was a warranty repair in response to an intermittent cooling problem we had from almost the beginning.

Labor took about two-three hours and our tech was experienced in the procedure.

If I had to guess, I'd peg the unit cost at about $1500 and whatever the labor rate is - anywhere from $75 to $110+ an hour. Maybe somebody else has a better idea of what the thing costs.
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Old 06-11-2008, 03:15 PM   #7
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The labor charge to remove and replace the unit was just as John said $110.00 per hour and I was billed for 3.5 hours total labor but that also included the replacement of the squirrel cage and sensors!

Ben!
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Old 06-11-2008, 07:23 PM   #8
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So what was the noise improvement from? Just the new squirrel cage blower? Ours has never really been quiet, and the out of phase drone noise is pretty bad sometimes.
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Old 06-11-2008, 09:18 PM   #9
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Regarding the blower bearings, I learned that on the roof top units, these bearings are supposed to get 2 drops of 30 wt oil once a year. That's what RVP has in their roof mounted service manual. The same bearings are used in the basement units as well, at least in the '04 and earlier.

On the gas engine chassis where the generator is in the rear just a few feet away, the ambient air temp is a whole lot hotter down under. When you're running off the generator in the high heat, and your parked on blacktop, and the breeze is in the right direction, the bearing for the outside air blower is going to have a much shorter life expectancy. I was inside my basement unit yesterday to replace the bearings. RVP should have used a sealed ball bearing, instead of an open brass bushing in the basement units where you don't have easy access to oil the brass ones.

In the Grainger catalog the brass bushing is $10.32 ( Dayton 2X567). The sealed ball bearing equivalent is $14.41 (Dayton 2X897). This morning I ordered 2 brass bearings for delivery tomorrow. Now 12 hours later I realize I should have implemented a design improvement and bought the ball bearing version. The reason I bought two is to have a spare. Oh well.

After reading this post, I hope the RVP sends the repair shop the new plastic blower. They're supposed to order the blower for me tomorrow.
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Old 06-11-2008, 09:56 PM   #10
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I forgot all about Lodgemobile, there is a LOT of history with that outfit. He was talking to Bob up at Mobile Home Supply about selling a few years ago. Guess it didn't happen.
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Old 06-12-2008, 05:35 AM   #11
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by tderonne:
So what was the noise improvement from? Just the new squirrel cage blower? Ours has never really been quiet, and the out of phase drone noise is pretty bad sometimes. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Good question - I'm not sure what the differences are. Now I'm not sure if we have a plastic or a metal blower.

Bill - is it too late to get the sealed ball bearings? Thanks for the investigation - I think I should print out your research results and file away for future use.
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Old 06-12-2008, 06:13 AM   #12
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by John_Canfield:
Bill - is it too late to get the sealed ball bearings? Thanks for the investigation - I think I should print out your research results and file away for future use. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No it's not to late. For around $40 I could have one here tomorrow. But I don't think I'll need it now. I'm planning to get the new plastic squirel cage installed -- it doesn't need this bearing. The inside blower with the same brass bearing is running in the ice cold air, and having a much smaller squirel cage to support, should last many years.

I wonder what they did to get rid of the droning compressors' sound? If you can keep both compressors running at exactly the same rpm, there would be no drone (beat frequency = 0 hz).
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Old 06-12-2008, 07:20 PM   #13
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Duner:
Regarding the blower bearings, I learned that on the roof top units, these bearings are supposed to get 2 drops of 30 wt oil once a year. That's what RVP has in their roof mounted service manual. The same bearings are used in the basement units as well, at least in the '04 and earlier.

On the gas engine chassis where the generator is in the rear just a few feet away, the ambient air temp is a whole lot hotter down under. When you're running off the generator in the high heat, and your parked on blacktop, and the breeze is in the right direction, the bearing for the outside air blower is going to have a much shorter life expectancy. I was inside my basement unit yesterday to replace the bearings. RVP should have used a sealed ball bearing, instead of an open brass bushing in the basement units where you don't have easy access to oil the brass ones.

In the Grainger catalog the brass bushing is $10.32 ( Dayton 2X567). The sealed ball bearing equivalent is $14.41 (Dayton 2X897). This morning I ordered 2 brass bearings for delivery tomorrow. Now 12 hours later I realize I should have implemented a design improvement and bought the ball bearing version. The reason I bought two is to have a spare. Oh well.

After reading this post, I hope the RVP sends the repair shop the new plastic blower. They're supposed to order the blower for me tomorrow. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Duner, anything you can share that will enable me to find those bearings adn drop a little oil on them?
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Old 06-13-2008, 01:35 AM   #14
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JWatkins:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Duner:
Regarding the blower bearings, I learned that on the roof top units, these bearings are supposed to get 2 drops of 30 wt oil once a year. That's what RVP has in their roof mounted service manual. The same bearings are used in the basement units as well, at least in the '04 and earlier.

On the gas engine chassis where the generator is in the rear just a few feet away, the ambient air temp is a whole lot hotter down under. When you're running off the generator in the high heat, and your parked on blacktop, and the breeze is in the right direction, the bearing for the outside air blower is going to have a much shorter life expectancy. I was inside my basement unit yesterday to replace the bearings. RVP should have used a sealed ball bearing, instead of an open brass bushing in the basement units where you don't have easy access to oil the brass ones.

In the Grainger catalog the brass bushing is $10.32 ( Dayton 2X567). The sealed ball bearing equivalent is $14.41 (Dayton 2X897). This morning I ordered 2 brass bearings for delivery tomorrow. Now 12 hours later I realize I should have implemented a design improvement and bought the ball bearing version. The reason I bought two is to have a spare. Oh well.

After reading this post, I hope the RVP sends the repair shop the new plastic blower. They're supposed to order the blower for me tomorrow. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Duner, anything you can share that will enable me to find those bearings adn drop a little oil on them?
Joe </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I believe that onec you pull the unit out from under the coach and remove the access panel it will become quite obvious. Check out page 185 and 186 of your parts manual which can be found at the link below. See parts 28, 29 and 34.

http://www.winnebagoind.com/service/...04/4wpg37b.pdf
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Old 06-13-2008, 04:28 PM   #15
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by John_Canfield:
the best we could cool the coach down to was 89. At that point it was a little uncomfortable, but that only lasted for about an hour or two. The addition of a roof air would make a huge difference </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

John, I hope Winnebago will give us some better R-values on future units (at least as an option) in the future, as I don't consider this acceptable.....it certainly isn't in a Monoco/HR or a Newmar unit.
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Old 06-14-2008, 05:34 AM   #16
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That is a wonderful idea but it might require some dramatic engineering and production changes and a mind-set revolution by Winnebago.

When we toured the Travel Supreme factory (sorry to see them out of business), they told us each coach was essentially custom built - they manufactured very few units for dealer stock. In a production environment like this (and at this price point), it is easy to change things.

Newmar will entertain changes if you have the money and probably other manufacturers as well.

When we ordered our coach, we tried to get a simple change like substituting a Splendide 2100 in place of the standard 2000 - no way would they do this. Both units are almost identical in size and interestingly Winnebago started using the 2100 in the next model year.

We never liked our pilot/copilot seats from the moment we sat in them. For one thing, the lumbar support was way, way misplaced. It is doubtful to me that the seat frame designer actually tested the design - otherwise it would be different. We replaced the seats last summer and never once regretted the expense.

It would be nice for Winnebago to give customers the option of ordering upgraded Flexsteel furniture.

Oops - this is turning into a bit of a rant...
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Old 06-14-2008, 06:12 AM   #17
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JWatkins:
Duner, anything you can share that will enable me to find those bearings adn drop a little oil on them?
Joe </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Joe, I see you have a 2004 Adventurer. If you go thru the work to pull the unit, and you have a lot of hours on the a/c and heat pump, I think I would replace with the ball bearing version. If you were oiling the bearing every year, then there may not be much, if any, wear on the bearing. But with no oil added for 4 years, then the condition of the bearing could already be compromised.

I think there are two major contributing factors in my bearing going out sooner than others. #1, for 4 years we dry camp a lot at the sand dunes. Running the generator and a/c in 100+ temps puts that bearing in a very high ambient temperature, and heat kills things much faster. #2, we've been fulltiming for 10 months straight and have put many hours running the a/c last fall, heat pump all thru the winter, and some more a/c this spring.

I called RV Products yesterday and ordered a new blower motor $171, and squirrel cage $47, and $20 shipping. Keith in RVP service, who took my order, said the new plastic squirrel cage still uses the brass bearing (they call it a brass sleeve). He said the new motor is the same as the one used in 2004.

If you wait a couple of weeks, I will post instructions and pictures of the a/c unit removal, the brass bearings, the blower motor replacement, and the new plastic squirrel cage replacement. This is not a complicated job. It's just a pita messing with the output duct work the first time. Now that I have my ducting all re-taped, it will be real easy the next time I touch it. With the help of the neighbor, we slid the unit out on the campground picnic table seat. You pull about 20 screws on the lid, and everything is exposed. None of the electrical is touched so you can fire the unit up with the lid off and see/hear what's going on. It is a little tricky pulling out the blower assy because it is restricted by the cooling lines and you end up folding up some of the delicate alum fins on the condenser coils. I had to use a small screwdriver to bend each fin back in place a little time consuming but you can't see any damage when it's all back together again.

In the 1000 Trails system of RV parks, a lot of folks are fulltimers. With the sudden heat here in the east coast, there were a lot of a/c units going out. When you do a project like this in the cg, everybody has to come over and see what's going on. Then they tell you about their a/c problem. I've heard a lot of stories by now.
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Old 06-14-2008, 07:59 AM   #18
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Here is a link to pictures of the replacement of our entire AC unit.
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Old 06-14-2008, 08:47 AM   #19
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I thought the unit was slide out. From the pictures it looks like it was lowered.
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Old 06-14-2008, 09:20 AM   #20
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jdsr:
I thought the unit was slide out. From the pictures it looks like it was lowered. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, they do slide out on the front gas engine chassis. The intake vent is on the back side of a/c unit.

The intake venting is from the top on rear diesel since the engine is in the way for a back side venting.
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