Allure Ultra Vinyl Laminate Install

[bmijudie]

This thread has been very helpful but I still have some questions. We recently paid a lot of money to have the Allure Ultra installed in our '07 Discovery. When we first picked it up from the shop the floor looked beautiful, until we took the rig out on a trip and the floor separated in the center in about 8 spots. We called the shop and took it back in to fix the floor. We picked it up and brought it home, the rig was home for about a week, no slides out or jacks down and the floor looked beautiful. We went on another trip, the next morning, the floor pulled apart again in about the same area and a small spot in the hall.
It is going in the shop again next week and I am obsessed with figuring this out so we can feel like we made the right decision to have the floors done.
Since we did not do the install, I'm not sure how the gaps are along the edges, however, I did look under the carpet that flaps over from the slide out and the flooring is screwed down to the floor. Is this correct, should it not be screwed or attached anywhere? Does the 1/4 round keep the floor together? If the flooring is not attached to the plywood next to the slides, will it stay put when the slide out comes in and out?
The flooring goes the entire length of the living area from under the dash to the small step up to the bedroom, the bedroom is carpet.
Thank you for your help!

[aauummm]

Originally Posted by bmijudie

This thread has been very helpful but I still have some questions. We recently paid a lot of money to have the Allure Ultra installed in our '07 Discovery. When we first picked it up from the shop the floor looked beautiful, until we took the rig out on a trip and the floor separated in the center in about 8 spots. We called the shop and took it back in to fix the floor. We picked it up and brought it home, the rig was home for about a week, no slides out or jacks down and the floor looked beautiful. We went on another trip, the next morning, the floor pulled apart again in about the same area and a small spot in the hall.
It is going in the shop again next week and I am obsessed with figuring this out so we can feel like we made the right decision to have the floors done.
Since we did not do the install, I'm not sure how the gaps are along the edges, however, I did look under the carpet that flaps over from the slide out and the flooring is screwed down to the floor. Is this correct, should it not be screwed or attached anywhere? Does the 1/4 round keep the floor together? If the flooring is not attached to the plywood next to the slides, will it stay put when the slide out comes in and out?
The flooring goes the entire length of the living area from under the dash to the small step up to the bedroom, the bedroom is carpet.
Thank you for your help!

A couple of things. Number one is that getting the joints tightly together is pretty tricky. I ended up using the Allure tapping block and examining each finished joint with a high powered spotlight. Numbers of times I was fooled into thinking I had gotten the joint tight and it was not.

Number two is that I did screw down the Allure on one side of the room only and that is only under one slideout. The other side of the room has the 1/4 inch gap for expansion/contraction and that is under an opposing slideout. I did not want the one slideout to push the flooring back and forth over the subfloor.

Another thing is to watch for the heat registers. They cannot be screwed down through the flooring. I used no quarter round as yet because it looks pretty good as it is. I did seal the 1/4 inch space where the flooring meets a wall with a flexible silicon sealant and then colored it black with a magic marker. Also, the subfloor must be clean, clean, and more clean and as level and smooth as possible.

I have had the slideouts in and out many times since the install and on two short trips and have had no problems. It should never separate at the joints. If installed properly the whole floor becomes like one solid wood floor. It's very stable and each plank is surprisingly heavy and sturdy. I've had a lot of compliments on how ours looks and feels to walk on.

[bmijudie]

Thanks! I was soooo hoping that the problem was because the floor was screwed down on the one side. We do not have any registers on the floor, they are in the wall. I'm still trying to figure out what's wrong and why it keeps separating.

[aauummm]

Originally Posted by bmijudie

Thanks! I was soooo hoping that the problem was because the floor was screwed down on the one side. We do not have any registers on the floor, they are in the wall. I'm still trying to figure out what's wrong and why it keeps separating.

OK, you've eliminated two things that could be the problem. That leaves: they are not getting the joints put together properly. To fix that they would have to remove all of the planks back to where the problem joints are and correct them and then proceed.

Next, get down on your knees and with your head as close to the floor as possible, shine a strong light on the floor. Look along the beam of light. The flooring should be absolutely smooth and flat with no bulges, humps, dips, etc. If there are, again they will have to remove the planks back to where the problems are and fix and/or clean the subfloor.

I'm not sure how anyone could make any money at installing the floor. It literally took me days to remove the old vinyl, clean up the mess, remove old glue and staples (tons of staples), sweep and vacuum, sweep and vacuum, carefully measure twice and cut once, get the joints right, redo planks that hadn't seated properly, etc., etc.

My guess is that they didn't get the joints absolutely, perfectly tight or they laid it over some contaminant such as a splinter of wood, a staple or leftover glue.

[CJ7ole]

Sorry for all of your problems. Your installer sure didn't make any money on this one and I can guarantee he won't be doing another install of this product. Are the separations at the end joints or on the long side of the plank? Either way it points to improper joint design and/or installation. Allure is difficult with regard to that aspect of the installation. I had separation of some end joints largely to large temperature fluctuations. Doing it again, I would super glue them. No, doing it again I would use a product with a better joint design. My floor floats everywhere and I still have problems. As far as registers, just let them float, they don't need to be screwed down.

[aauummm]

Originally Posted by bmijudie

Thanks! I was soooo hoping that the problem was because the floor was screwed down on the one side. We do not have any registers on the floor, they are in the wall. I'm still trying to figure out what's wrong and why it keeps separating.

Just for the heck of it I did a little demo last night with two pieces of the Allure Ultra that I had left over. I properly joined them together and then lifted them by the edge of one of them. The unsupported other piece is supported by the joint only. As you can see in the photo, the joint will not separate if done correctly and if the edge of the unsupported plank is not lifted at all.

By lifting the edge of the unsupported plank just a 1/2 inch or so, the two planks instantly separate and the assembly falls apart.

To give you an idea of how critical the butting together of the joints is, I was about half way through the flooring when I noticed an end joint that didn't look quite right. I got out the spotlight and a magnifying glass and saw that there was about a 1/32 of an inch gap between the two planks. A gap will show up as light grey. I removed six or seven planks back to the bad joint and relaid them. I then went back and examined every joint in the same manner and they were all OK. From that point on every joint was examined closely with the spotlight prior to going on to the next one.

The first picture is of the two pieces held by me by one edge of the assembly with the 2nd plank supported only by the joint. The second picture shows an improperly done joint and the third shows the same spot with a properly done joint. An improperly done joint may not be visible from eye level or in normal lighting.

[bmijudie]

Thank you guys for your responses and aauummm, for taking the time with the pictures. It is greatly appreciated. Our separation is on the butt ends, the sides stay together perfectly and it is in the same area both times that it happened. I am also wondering, when we camp, we are boondocking, which means that we are putting the jacks down on dirt, that is not always level. Do you think that possible that the center of the floor is the frame 'tweak" spot and floor is being pulled because of the way the jacks are down? Gosh, I hope that made sense! But then again, if the floor is free floating, it should just float, right? I just don't want to have to pay to redo this floor with something else, the cost has been unbelievable.

[aauummm]

Originally Posted by bmijudie

Thank you guys for your responses and aauummm, for taking the time with the pictures. It is greatly appreciated. Our separation is on the butt ends, the sides stay together perfectly and it is in the same area both times that it happened. I am also wondering, when we camp, we are boondocking, which means that we are putting the jacks down on dirt, that is not always level. Do you think that possible that the center of the floor is the frame 'tweak" spot and floor is being pulled because of the way the jacks are down? Gosh, I hope that made sense! But then again, if the floor is free floating, it should just float, right? I just don't want to have to pay to redo this floor with something else, the cost has been unbelievable.

I don't think that flexing of the frame would have any effect on the flooring. As you say, the flooring is free-floating and you can see in my first picture in my previous post that the joint can be curved vertically and it still holds together.

I have had my MH in and out of my driveway numerous times since the install. My driveway from the street up to the sidewalk is one of those "rock you back and forth" driveway entrances with the sidewalk probably 1 1/2 foot higher than the gutter. That has presented absolutely no problem for the flooring.

With due care on installation, the flooring is first class. It is waterproof, stain proof and tough as nails. It will outlast the motorhome. It has beautiful color and the detailed texture is very life-like.

For those just now following this thread the flooring that I installed is this:

TrafficMASTER Allure Ultra 7.5 in. x 47.6 in. Sawcut Dakota Resilient Vinyl Plank Flooring (19.8 sq. ft. / case)-54112 - The Home Depot

[aauummm]

Originally Posted by bmijudie

Thank you guys for your responses and aauummm, for taking the time with the pictures. It is greatly appreciated. Our separation is on the butt ends, the sides stay together perfectly and it is in the same area both times that it happened. I am also wondering, when we camp, we are boondocking, which means that we are putting the jacks down on dirt, that is not always level. Do you think that possible that the center of the floor is the frame 'tweak" spot and floor is being pulled because of the way the jacks are down? Gosh, I hope that made sense! But then again, if the floor is free floating, it should just float, right? I just don't want to have to pay to redo this floor with something else, the cost has been unbelievable.

I might add, the butt ends are the same joint design, construction and procedure as the long-side joints. No difference. The butt end joints need a bit of extra care in that they are slid into place and then the long side is joined together. Then you go back and tap and lock in the butt end joint and then the long-side joint. As the long-side joint is finally tapped in, the plank will snap flat against the subfloor.

[LibbyLA]

The Allure should NOT be screwed down anywhere. It needs to float. As me how I know <sigh>. That Allure has to be able to expand and contract as a unit, and that's both lengthwise and crosswise. If it's screwed down anywhere, it can't to that as a unit.

At some point, we will probably have to redo ours (remove and reinstall using what we have now, but being careful to get all the joints joined properly and no screws or nails anywhere) but it's not high on the priority list right now.

[bmijudie]

Ok, I'm going out and check with the extra box we have and try to "click" the end pieces together.


I've also looked at Ole's suggestion of super gluing the butt ends, but what pops into my mind is if they ever come apart, the super glue will be so hard on the edges, the plank will be unusable again.

[aauummm]

There is no problem with screwing down one edge of the flooring on one side of the room and leaving the opposite side of the room free to accommodate the expansion and contraction. That works both lengthwise and crosswise in the room.

In fact it is preferable to have one side screwed down as bringing the slideout in or out will slide the flooring over the subfloor. I tested this out before I started by having my wife stand on a small section of flooring placed in front of one slideout. As I brought the slideout in it pushed the flooring across the subfloor with her standing on it. The down side of the planks are smooth and slick and won't resist sideways movement.

What you wouldn't want to do is screw it down along one side of the room and then again in the middle of the room or worse, at both sides of the room and the ends.

I might add that the one side of the room in front of the slide is only about five feet long. The expansion/contraction in five feet lengthwise is insignificant. Everywhere else there are no screws used anywhere. So going down the hallway both sides have expansion areas and there are no screws in either end of the floor at the captain's chairs or at the bedroom.

[aauummm]

I didn't think that this would get this detailed but here goes. Initially when laying down the floor I screwed down the first row of planks under the carpet of the slideout. I did this because I wanted a small gap between the flooring and the ramp that the slideout slides up and over. In order to maintain that small gap while tapping all of the following planks I screwed five foot of the first row down. This would assure me of keeping the rows straight all of the way down through the kitchen and the hallway to the bedroom after tapping and walking on the flooring.

After completion of the project and sealing the edges with silicon, I came back and removed the extra screw and left only one screw under the short slideout. This prevents the floor from sliding sideways while putting the slideout in or out. It also allows expansion/contraction in the long direction.

Normally expansion/contraction in five feet of length will not be significant but I am dealing with a temperature differential from -20 F or lower, to 105 F. It was installed at 75 F. With those temperature differences, the maximum amount of contraction would be 0.09 inches at -20 or 0.03 inches of expansion at 105 F. Thus I went with just one screw under the slideout.

I should have mentioned this detail in the beginning to be more clear about screwing the flooring down. I agree with Libby that you would not want to screw down the whole length of one wall (say all the way from the captain' chairs to the bedroom) as that would cause problems with expansion/contraction in the lengthwise direction.

If more than one screw were needed for some reason, the screw hole could be slotted lengthwise by about an 1/8 inch (and don't screw the screw in too tightly) to allow for lengthwise expansion but still keep the flooring from sliding when the slideout is put in or out.

Whew, this gets long and detailed.

[bmijudie]

Ha Ha! I'm keeping you busy, aren't I! Thank you again, I'm understanding all this and now to explain what you said to my installer. As I see it, the length of our slide that is screwed down is about 14', guessing, and it is screwed down about every 8 inches. I will show him what you wrote.


Thank you again so much for all your time and efforts.

[aauummm]

Originally Posted by bmijudie

Ha Ha! I'm keeping you busy, aren't I! Thank you again, I'm understanding all this and now to explain what you said to my installer. As I see it, the length of our slide that is screwed down is about 14', guessing, and it is screwed down about every 8 inches. I will show him what you wrote.


Thank you again so much for all your time and efforts.

You're welcome! Oh..Oh... now 14' screwed down would be a problem lengthwise. We can thank Libby for motivating me go back and explain things further! And to double check myself I went out to the MH just to make sure that I had taken out the extra screws!

If the installer just has to have some way of keeping the whole floor from sliding across the room because of the slideout coming in or out, the screw holes could be slotted in the lengthwise direction. If that's the case I would slot the hole at least 1/8 inch on each side of the screw in the lengthwise direction. Good luck!

[aauummm]

Originally Posted by bmijudie

This thread has been very helpful but I still have some questions. We recently paid a lot of money to have the Allure Ultra installed in our '07 Discovery. When we first picked it up from the shop the floor looked beautiful, until we took the rig out on a trip and the floor separated in the center in about 8 spots. We called the shop and took it back in to fix the floor. We picked it up and brought it home, the rig was home for about a week, no slides out or jacks down and the floor looked beautiful. We went on another trip, the next morning, the floor pulled apart again in about the same area and a small spot in the hall.
It is going in the shop again next week and I am obsessed with figuring this out so we can feel like we made the right decision to have the floors done.
Since we did not do the install, I'm not sure how the gaps are along the edges, however, I did look under the carpet that flaps over from the slide out and the flooring is screwed down to the floor. Is this correct, should it not be screwed or attached anywhere? Does the 1/4 round keep the floor together? If the flooring is not attached to the plywood next to the slides, will it stay put when the slide out comes in and out?
The flooring goes the entire length of the living area from under the dash to the small step up to the bedroom, the bedroom is carpet.
Thank you for your help!

Any update on how you're doing with the flooring? Hope that it's good news!

[bmijudie]

Sorry I took so long to get back to you, bet we've been gone...not in the moho.
Ok, we are day 3 on our current trip and the floor is starting to separate in a few different places. The shop replaced quite a bit of the flooring, at their expense, in case the little locking grooves were defective. No such luck, I discussed with them what you said that there can not be any screws and such, but the planks that butt up to the drivers side slide are still screwed down about every 8 inches.
This is a very reputable, big RV business that rigs go to when they have been wrecked, fires and such. Everyone is scratching their heads on why this floor won't stay together. I'm almost to the point that I will have them recarpet it! OR I'm driving it to Iowa to have you look at it since yours in beautiful.

[aauummm]

Originally Posted by bmijudie

Sorry I took so long to get back to you, bet we've been gone...not in the moho.
Ok, we are day 3 on our current trip and the floor is starting to separate in a few different places. The shop replaced quite a bit of the flooring, at their expense, in case the little locking grooves were defective. No such luck, I discussed with them what you said that there can not be any screws and such, but the planks that butt up to the drivers side slide are still screwed down about every 8 inches.
This is a very reputable, big RV business that rigs go to when they have been wrecked, fires and such. Everyone is scratching their heads on why this floor won't stay together. I'm almost to the point that I will have them recarpet it! OR I'm driving it to Iowa to have you look at it since yours in beautiful.

Thanks for the update! I was wondering how you were getting along with the flooring. This is a real stumper as it's the first I've heard of anyone having major troubles with the Allure Ultra. If the guys at the RV restoration business couldn't figure it out, then I probably couldn't either!

There is a flooring expert that posts in these forums quite a bit and he travels around installing floors in RV's for people. I'll see if I can dig up his username.

[aauummm]

Here's the flooring expert:

iRV2 Forums - View Profile: Ernie Ekberg

Maybe he has some ideas? I'm surprised that he didn't chime in on the thread somewhere along the way.

[bmijudie]

Thank you, I PM'ed Ernie. I'll let you know what he says.