Cummins ISL overheating problem?

[powerboatr]

jonh
yep i typoed the 1200 into 2200

hope it all gets worked out, you got alot of tq pushing that rig,
actually very impressive numbers i was surprised to see it in a rv
see you in a campground sometime

[ajbjrvers]

To, ALL, RE; Cummins ISL 400 hp,,

My rig just hit 20k miles, a little over 4 yrs old. Never had anything but normal? engine temp.

I am always in the Economy mode on the Allison tranny and use cruise control 90% of the time.

Rig is on a Spartan chassis with a side radiator.

I have Transynd synthetic fluid in tranny, runs cooler, use only Rotella synthetic in engine, just changed oil and filters in April, Every diesel tech I've spoken to has said that the extra costs for the synthetics is justified because things run cooler, shift smoother, eliminating heat etc.

I don't know if over-heating will occur down the road but I've never had an over-heat problem on any engine, because of synthetics?

Engine revs at 1500 rpms at 60 mph.

Rig weighs 37k lbs, and I tow a 3,500 lb. toad

Tire inflation, very important, is kept at Michelins' specs for rig weight.

By using the economy mode and cruise, the computers are only delivering enough fuel to keep speed constant, if I have to speed up or slow down, I use the tap up or down on the cruise, I avoid using pedal, unless necessary.

Thanks=== Aime== = AJBJRVERS===

[John_Canfield]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ajbjrvers:
I have Transynd synthetic fluid in tranny, runs cooler, use only Rotella synthetic in engine, just changed oil and filters in April, Every diesel tech I've spoken to has said that the extra costs for the synthetics is justified because things run cooler, shift smoother, eliminating heat etc. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Aime - My chassis came with Transynd and I believe the engine is also running synthetic oil. I had a 1993 Corvette and it ran Mobil-1 synthetic oil right out of the factory - it was probably one of the first cars to do so as original equipment. That engine ran high compression and produced lots of heat, so the synthetic was a good choice.

I'm a fanatic about keeping the tires at proper pressure - I think we have weighed three times in the last six weeks to be sure we are at the right TP (we kept adding things to the coach which changed our weight.)

[ajbjrvers]

TO, John Canfield

Hi, John,

Have been reading your postings for some time now, keep them coming!!!

Re; Synthetics, My racing cousin started me on Mobil 1 when Mobil was sponsering him and I have used it in every 4 cycle engine I've owned since then.

I have never had an internal engine problem or over-heating and I used to push engines to their limits.

Synthetics are used in a-lot of new vehicles

[ajbjrvers]

To; John

Don't know why but screen went blank before I finished last posting.

I think people don't believe the differences synthetics make and can.t justify the added cost. I buy gallons of Rotella Synthetic at Wal-mart and carry with me and if servicing shop doesn't STOCK, synthetic ,they use my supply which I quickly replenish. Even the Quiet Diesel runs quieter and smoother on syn.

Proper tire pressure to weight;

I think a lot of these postings regarding bad ,rough ride is due to improper inflation to weight ratios, I went through it with my 2000 mountan aire.

My rig is loaded all the time except for frige, so I only weigh every couple mpnths, but check tires daily and inflation when taking on fuel, 150 gallon tank.

I know if we can educate other rver's on synthetics and weight to inflation ratios there would be many, many more HAPPY CAMPERS

Take care== Aime== AJBJRVERS====

[John_Canfield]

UPDATE: 5/24/06

We kept our service appointment today at Eddie's Trucks, a Freightliner Oasis dealer in Rapid City, South Dakota. We arrived here exactly at 09:30 which was our appointment time and we finally had the technician in our coach at 12:45. Oh how I miss the promptness and dependability of Winnie factory service.

Anyway...

He brought his laptop in the coach and I plugged his test interface into the OBDII connector which is under the dash. I then hit the road intending to take the very same route when we saw the temperature get to 222 degrees last week.

I started up the first fairly long grade and the temp only got to about 205 or 208. I'm now wondering if our situation didn't 'fix' itself somehow. Not to worry, plenty of long grades left. Started up the next very long 6% grade and sure enough the temp did climb, but as I recall it only got to about 215 or maybe 218 - I forgot the exact peak temp but it did NOT get to 222 degrees which we first saw a week ago.

Brad the tech was a little concerned about the temp, but certainly not alarmed at all. We headed back to the shop and he wanted to check the fan controller and then talk things over with Freightliner.

He unplugged the fan controller plug and he verified that the fan came up to almost full speed. On the side-radiator ISL, the fan is driven by a hydraulic variable speed motor. When the electrical control is unplugged from the control box, the fan should start. I think he said the fan speed will be 100% of rated speed at about 1700 rpm.

After his chat with Freightliner, the bottom line is that everything is normal as far as Freightliner is concerned ... There was no code set (check engine) in the Cummins software indicating anything was wrong as far as Cummins was concerned. FTL also said these engines will run a little hotter.

It is still very disconcerting to see the FTL info center flashing with a temperature warning - if this is no big deal then why call my attention to it???

So - worry mode is: OFF

[Lug_Nut]

John, I think keeping the engine around 2000 RPM is the best cooling while climbing advise. I drove an '06 MADP with the 400 ISL and was surprised how warm they run. I wasn't climbing any grades or riding it hard. The outside temp was about 75 degrees. I used the TripTek to observe the engine temerature. It stayed around the 202 area. This surprised me as my ISC 350 '02 model would be 176.

This being correct, your temperatures sound reasonable. Engines run much hotter now and RPM is needed to maintain the cooling properly.

You mentioned your '93 Corvette. I got another surprise when I noticed my '03 Corvette Z06 pushing the temperature envolope when idling. I took it in to the dealer and had it checked out. It has two electric fans in the rad. The first one is set to start at 226 degrees while the second one is set to cut in at 232 degrees. Sounds awful high to me, but apparently that's what it's suppose to be.

Live and learn I guess.

[John_Canfield]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I got another surprise when I noticed my '03 Corvette Z06 pushing the temperature envolope when idling. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>ZO6 - now you have me drooling of my goals is to own a ZO6 C5. Jane wants a Miata if we get another sports car. I keep trying to tell her that the Miata while a great little sports car is still a 'girley' car.

[Lug_Nut]

I've got an '04 S2000 Honda for the slower days. 5,000 miles on the Corvette and 3,000 miles on the S2000.

[Poki]

We used to have an overheating problem with our rear radiator Beaver. Several things completely solved the problem and most were just learning how to drive it!
1. Per Allison's recommendation at a ralley, Mode is easy....if in hills/mounains..turn it OFF.
2. Downshift manually sooner to keep RPMs up
3. Turbo/engine will run cooler if you lift your foot off the floor a few inches on long grades and no loss of power will be noticed (Per Cat dealer).
4. Keep the radiator clean.

[gunny]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by powerboatr:
May I weigh in as an old engine tech

1500 rpm, heavy load, i do not know your rear gear ratio but I seculate its around a 4.30 or numerically lower maybe 5.30 .
anyway
1500 rpm is not really in the ISB power band, its just inside the low range, still has a good amount of tq, but its working harder than it should to maintain that tq, that is why power came up and temps dropped when you down shifted and let it run up in the 2k range

the engine was lugging and like was mentioned creating a ton of heat in teh combustion process,(pouring fuel, with not enough fresh air coming in) you mentioned Exhaust temps but i dont know if you have an exhaust gauge, if you do, a good rule of thumb is to drive using it as a reference stick , 1250 F is a good point to start watching it, 1350 start pulling back the throttle or down shift and get rpms up so more AIR can get in and out of the engine to expell the heat.
1400F and above can be detrimental to piston life , transinet through 1400 even 1500 wont necassarly hurt the pistons, but more than a transient could start the burn a hole process which will leave you stopped by the road
so when your running down the road and you start slowing down and increasing throttle and rpms fall off , dont be afraid to down shift, you wil burn more fuel at a lower rpm LUGGING than downshifting and gettign back into teh powerband
aslo I am sure the ISB engine has the latest electronics and it will start shutting off fuel if you exceeed some parameters like boost or exhaust temps, but if you dont have a boost and exhaust temp guage you might want to consider getting them, I have seen the plug and play screens that will display all of your engine readings under way, if you dont want guages.
hope the tech can shed some more light on your situation.
see you down the road

also with simple green, and aluminum radiators,
ensure its all rinsed off, even rinse several times to ensure its all gone,
the chemical di-limolene will react with the alum and cause corrosin issue if left to dry . </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Where did you come up with those EGT numbers?

Think John has a Cummins "L" engine, not a "B".

[jimandsue60]

I posted this over at Yahoo FCOC also.

My 07 side radiator vectra will start to get hot if I allow it to. Downshifting is the only way to keep it from overheating (when climbing long and steep grades). Looking at how the
airconditioning and engine radiator are stacked on top of one another shows why (possibly) this heating issue is there.

Is the fan sucking in or blowing out air?

The airconditioning radiator is held on by 4 bolts, I am wondering if longer bolts were used
and I put spacers in between a/c radiator and the engine radiator, if that would allow more
air to enter or exit the engine radiator. The only drawback I can see would be less performance of the airconditioning system (or maybe more performance). It would be very
easy to move the a/c radiator out a couple of inches. Any thoughts?

Jim

[John_Canfield]

Jim - Since that post of mine over a year ago, I have learned how manage the engine temperature by down shifting and it's really not a big deal any longer. We have been up and down some 'interesting' grades and managing the engine temp is almost second nature now.

Apparently the engines are running hotter now due to emissions standards so that's the way it is I suppose.

Don't have any idea about which way the fan blows

[jimandsue60]

Thanks for the response John. The people with the spartan chassis with the same engine/transmison don't seem to have heating issues.

I have the downshifting figured out and can keep it below 217 even on the steepest grades. It seems that if a car can be built to just drive without monitoring gauges it would be a bit easier. A slightly larger radiator with an unobstructed air flow would solve the problem. I wonder it this heat situation has something to do with the new rear radiator in the 08 Vectra/tour, Horizon/Ellipse?

Jim

[tom wilson]

dont use the economy mode. ever.

[Arv]

I have the same problem. Had the system checked out in Grand Junction and found that the fan speed was low, should be 1 to 1 with engine RPM. Freightline shop there changed out the pump and fan motor, this corrected the fan speed, but still have heating problems. By the way the fan sucks air through the radiator. I have been working with Freightliner Custom Chassis and have an appointment with a shop at home to check out the system further to get to the bottom of the heating problem when I get back in two weeks.

[jimandsue60]

Thanks Arv, keep us posted on your experiences.

Jim

[RickO]

Just to add my $.02 to help validate many of the responses already posted:

On the shakedown cruise of my 07 Ellipse 400 ISL, I had to be towed to the Cummins dealer in Bakersfield, Ca after getting a "Stop Engine!" warning while headed up the Grapevine on I5 near L.A. I documented this debacle in an earlier post, but the point is that the Cummins tech told me to always shift to keep the engine at 2000 rpm when making hard climbs.

I've just completed a 6,000 mile 15 state loop which included the climb up I70 west of Denver to over 11,100 feet towing a Grand Cherokee. I made sure to "drive the temp guage" when making long climbs and adjusted my gear selection and speed to stay at 2K rpm. I never saw temperatures exceed 208 the entire trip. I probably could have been a bit more aggressive and let it climb a bit higher but saw no need.

[Flyer]

Just another $.02. I had a Journey and I now have an HR Endeavor with the ISL. I went up the Grapevine towing a Toyota pickup, with the cruise engaged, in economy mode, with the outside temp at near 100 F. Temp gauge never exceeded 200 F. I attribute this to the fact that Monaco stacks the charge air cooler on top of the radiator. Not sure why Winne can't do this also. Makes sense to me.

[Erik & Anne]

We have just recently experienced the overheating problem everyone has been chatting about. We overheated going up I-70 out of Denver (high altitude, really long, steep climb) in 93 degree heat, towing nothing.

Freightliner and Cummins reps both checked it out and concluded the radiator fan had malfunctioned and was running constantly, sucking dust into the radiator. They took the radiator out and cleaned it, reset the fan, reset the computer, and told me to keep my RPM's up.

Its better now, but still overheats.

How do we check what "mode" our Allison is running in (and how do we change it)?

Anne & Erik