Xantrex RS2000 reporting wrong charge state

[John_Canfield]

(Gary/Don - you might want to cross-post this)

I'm starting a thread about the RS2000 since we were wandering off-topic in the recent Dimensions thread.

Apparently I'm not the only one that has experienced the RS2000 control panel reporting the wrong stage of the three stage state (i.e., the panel is reporting acceptance and not float even though the batteries are fully charged.)

I don't remember the exact scenario since we haven't had the problem happen in a long time and it seems to be very sporadic.

The main issue for me at least is how this affects the auto gen start - on several occasions we have had the genny start on a DCVoltLow trigger (or whatever the panel called it) when the battery bank was fully charged and I *think* the panel was reporting float. (We have also had the genny auto-start on a genuine low battery condition when our bridging solenoid failed and the inverter was pulling the batteries down after several hours on the road.)

Oddly this has happened on two different RS2000 units (but the same control panel and same AGS.) This spring we replaced our RS2000 under the three-year warranty due to noisy fans.

My firmware is the latest (at least as of spring/08) at:

RS2000: 1.04.00
System panel: 1.06
AGS: 1.03.00

RS2000/3000 owners, please chime in here

 

[John_Canfield]

(Gary/Don - you might want to cross-post this)

I'm starting a thread about the RS2000 since we were wandering off-topic in the recent Dimensions thread.

Apparently I'm not the only one that has experienced the RS2000 control panel reporting the wrong stage of the three stage state (i.e., the panel is reporting acceptance and not float even though the batteries are fully charged.)

I don't remember the exact scenario since we haven't had the problem happen in a long time and it seems to be very sporadic.

The main issue for me at least is how this affects the auto gen start - on several occasions we have had the genny start on a DCVoltLow trigger (or whatever the panel called it) when the battery bank was fully charged and I *think* the panel was reporting float. (We have also had the genny auto-start on a genuine low battery condition when our bridging solenoid failed and the inverter was pulling the batteries down after several hours on the road.)

Oddly this has happened on two different RS2000 units (but the same control panel and same AGS.) This spring we replaced our RS2000 under the three-year warranty due to noisy fans.

My firmware is the latest (at least as of spring/08) at:

RS2000: 1.04.00
System panel: 1.06
AGS: 1.03.00

RS2000/3000 owners, please chime in here

 

[Petro]

John;

I have a Freedom 2000. I keep it plugged in all winter. Unfortunately for me, our winter temperatures here are a lot colder than yours. I go out and exercises my generator & coach engine once a month. I may skip a couple of weeks in the coldest part of the winter when temps are below 0.

Last December when I went out to check out the coach I found my panel on the acceptance stage. I did not see any increase in the charge rate. It stayed that way to the April when It warmed up. I checked the battery water and it was fine so I know it was not over charging.

I had called Zantrex and they could not tell me what was wrong and gave me a tel # of a authorized center to take it to. I called the number and was told to remove the unit and bring it in. We were butt deep in snow at the time so I decided to let it go until late spring.

After the weather got warmer it returned to normal and worked OK all summer and fall. I have come to believe there is a temperature compensator in the system that is causing the issue. Last week when we had freezing temps the panel dropped down to acceptance stage again but the charge amperage did not increase any appreciable amount. This week we had temps in the 60s and it is normal again.

John what are your thoughts? Could it be in the panel? My panel went goofy once this summer and I lost all the lights. I unplugged it for 30 seconds and plugged it back in and it was OK again.

Don

 

[John_Canfield]

Don - not sure what to think

If the cold weather is causing the batteries to exhibit a lower voltage, the charger will think the batteries need to be charged and not floated. I do know cold flooded cell batteries do not have the capacity of a warm one, and if not charged, the electrolyte can freeze.

As an experiment you could try to warm up the batteries by wrapping a blanket or insulation around them and ducting a heater to them for several hours. You could look at the monitor every hour or two to see what the voltage is and the charge state.

As long as you aren't bubbling electrolyte out and the plates are covered with water and the batteries are staying charged up, I think you should be okay.

 

[AA4WP]

Hello, all:

I thought I would add my 2 bits worth to the ongoing saga of the Xantrex RS2000.

A few minutes ago I went out to further check the operation. Temperature on the batteries was 58 degrees F. I removed the AC, ran the microwave for a couple of minutes. I then restored AC, noted the charger was running around 35 or so amps, but the indication on the panel was "float" (not absorption as in John's case). I verified that the float light on the inverter in the bay was also lit. I then returned to the bedroom and read the SCP panel; the current was down to around 15 amps and panel still indicated float.

Last month I had a phone conversation with Prashant Joshi at Xantrex (in Canada) who guided me through the above experiment (minus the observation of the idiot lights on the main unit) and it did nearly exactly what I described above. He then instructed me to press the red reset button on the panel. At that time the panel indicated "bulk" to which the tech indicated "problem solved". I then modified the system to charge a 300 amp hour battery bank (not the default of 440 amp hour bank). After that the system behaved as it now does (incorrect reportage)

For further edification, the panel reports following system information:

Device info: RS2000:
Model number: 809-2000
Serial #: 0000118FB515
Firmware Revision: 104.00

Device info: SCP:
Model number: 809-0910
Serial #: 000011012797
Firmware Revision: 106.00

And so the mystery continues...

Wendell

 

[cbeierl]

My firmware revs are:

RS2000: 1.04.00
SCP: 1.04
AGS: 1.03.00

I haven't observed mine showing 'Acceptance' when I would expect 'Float', but I think I may have seen the reverse a few time. However, I didn't compare the listed charge rate with the specs, so I can't say for sure.

Btw, John (and any others with AGS), can you tell me how you have these AGS parameters set:

StartV:30s
StartV:15min
StartV:2hr
StartV:24hr
StopBattV

EnableLoad
StartLoad
StopLoad
StopAbsorb
StopFloat

 

[John_Canfield]

Chris - I have played with the AGS parameters quite a bit - I'll jot them down when I get a chance.

Now I'm not certain if mine is reporting float when it should say acceptance, or vice versa - it has been such a long time since I was tracking this issue down and I didn't make notes. Guess I should keep a maintenance diary!

 

[NoMoreAZ]

John,

Thanks for starting this thread as we talked about before.

Query 1) What is the definition of noisy fans. Our unit hums quite loudly, and since we have a 'K' unit the 'power bay' is right under the bedroom and the fan noise is a bit disturbing when trying to sleep! It seems the fans run at a constant speed when the charger is off and a louder constant speed when the charger is on. I turn our charger off when the solar system is cranking.

Query 2) How much of a struggle was it to get updated firmware from Xantrex? I remember you said they sent you a dongle. When I exchanged emails with Xantrex last year, they were not forthcoming about firmware upgrades.

Wendell...

What is the battery voltage when you are in your float stage? 12.8 or thereabouts?

My firmware levels...

RS2000: 1.02.01
SCP: 1.04.00


Anyone... On page of the RS2000 Op Guide is the parms for 'Power Share' The Range of Values stated is 5-50 amps and the default is 30 amps. On our system we go from 5 to 30 amps in 5 amp increments; nothing past 30. Don't help when connected to a 50 amp source and this thing thinks you are plugged into 30 amp. Before I talk to Xantrex, would like some comments.

Tnx

 

[cbeierl]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NoMoreAZ:
...Anyone... On page of the RS2000 Op Guide is the parms for 'Power Share' The Range of Values stated is 5-50 amps and the default is 30 amps. On our system we go from 5 to 30 amps in 5 amp increments; nothing past 30. Don't help when connected to a 50 amp source and this thing thinks you are plugged into 30 amp. Before I talk to Xantrex, would like some comments.

Tnx </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

My manual says the same thing, but my memory is just what you've seen--the actual upper limit seems to be 30 amp.

 

[John_Canfield]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NoMoreAZ:
Query 1) What is the definition of noisy fans. Our unit hums quite loudly... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>The noise was noticeable, a little erratic, and not a constant hum or purr like you would have from a PC cooling fan. There was a very slight metallic or maybe even a grinding noise. If you heard it, you would think - "that just doesn't sound right." The problem was not simply an increased noise level. There are two (at least) fans and they sounded like out of sync aircraft engines.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Query 2) How much of a struggle was it to get updated firmware from Xantrex? I remember you said they sent you a dongle. When I exchanged emails with Xantrex last year, they were not forthcoming about firmware upgrades. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Not difficult at all. All it takes is a credit card

I think it was a non-refundable $30 charge for use of the dongle which had to be returned. The actual firmware upgrade was quite simple and only took five minutes or less.

 

[NoMoreAZ]

Upstream here a bit ago I mentioned what I thought was an error in the RS2000 Op Guide concerning the option "Power Share". I sent an email to Xantrex Tech Support and sad to say, received the answer I thought I was going to recieve.

Email answer follows (this is a direct copy from my email) ***

Thank you for contacting Xantrex technical support.

Thank you for bringing up to notice that error. Infact those specifications are for the RS 3000 unit where it has a transfer switch rated for 50 amp built into it and it could pass through 50 amps. But for the RS 2000 the transfer switch is rated for 30 amps and the maximum set up for the power share is 30 amps. There is no formware upgrade that will change it.
***
Ain't this peachy!!

 

[SargeW]

DOH!!!!

 

[AA4WP]

NoMoreAZ

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Wendell...

What is the battery voltage when you are in your float stage? 12.8 or thereabouts?
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Around +13.7DCV

Wendell

 

[NoMoreAZ]

Wendell,

Reason I asked for your voltage reading was to see if it was low enough to force at least a brief cycle through 'bulk, absorption, float'. The RS2000 has a long wide float stage. Any battery voltage needs to drop below 12.5 VDC for a 15 minute period to get out of float. See page B-4 of the RS2000 Op Guide.

Do you really have a 300 AH battey bank? Is it the original batteries from 'Bago?

Not sure of the last time I saw my SCP display a stage other than float, but I have 400 watts of solar on the roof. It probably was this past summer when our battery isolator broke, so before I recognized the problem the house batteries dropped to around 80% full.

 

[AA4WP]

NoMoreAZ

Well, that is what you get when you read the instructions! That is very good news. I'll read the panel after I discharge the battery bank more thoroughly (whenever that will be). We're getting ready to take a trip to Pittsburgh over Thanksgiving (Over the river and through the woods to GrandDaughter's home we'll go). Perhaps we'll get the chance to deplete the charge more, campgrounds being what they can be at the end of their seasons.

The batteries are Wallyworld types; rated 125 AH each and I was being conservative stating 300 vice 375 AH. They are the Marine type 29 batteries.

Thanks for your input. One day we'll know all the secrets of auxiliary power. Also some day before we go back out to Quartzsite I hope to install some solar panels. (On that sub-subject, why no more Arizona? We found Buckeye to be very enjoyable last January and February)

Wendell

 

[NoMoreAZ]

Wendell,

'Cause we used to live there (southern AZ) for 26 years and, IMHO, it is now too crowded, etc., etc. We are now full time.

Run the mcrowave and run a hairdryer. That should use some electrics!

73, de AD7IE

 

[AA4WP]

Well, NoMoreAZ:

I agree about Yuma as being too overcrowded. Buckeye was really nice, especially after a week at Quartzsite. Only thing I did not enjoy was the irrigation operations. The odor was reminiscent of a dairy farm, which I hear there are many in the Tonopah area. We love Kentucky; its seasons are welcome, and the greenery is spectacular in the spring.

Nice talking to a fellow ham.

Wendell

 

[John_Canfield]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by cbeierl:
My firmware revs are:

RS2000: 1.04.00
SCP: 1.04
AGS: 1.03.00

I haven't observed mine showing 'Acceptance' when I would expect 'Float', but I think I may have seen the reverse a few time. However, I didn't compare the listed charge rate with the specs, so I can't say for sure.

Btw, John (and any others with AGS), can you tell me how you have these AGS parameters set:

StartV:30s
StartV:15min
StartV:2hr
StartV:24hr
StopBattV

EnableLoad
StartLoad
StopLoad
StopAbsorb
StopFloat </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Chris - sorry it took so long to get to this

My AGS triggers:

StartV:30sec ..... [off]
StartV:15min ..... [12.1V]
StartV:2Hr ....... [12.0V]
StopBattV......... [off]
EnableLoad........ [off]
StartLoad......... [10A]
StopLoad.......... [7A]
StopAbsorb........ [off]
StopFloat......... [on]

 

[cbeierl]

Thanks, John.

 

[NoMoreAZ]

Did two charging state tests in the last few days. Both tests gave same results.

Tests were as follows on a RS2000 with 440AH:
- remained pluged in to shore power
- disabled charger
- went about life in coach, DW in galley with light(s) on, front furnace went through one cycle etc.
- ensured that voltage shown on SCP was 12.5 VDC and was at that level or below > 15 minutes.
- at end of 'discharge' period, enabled charger.

- SCP showed charge state as Bulk, Battery as 14.5 VDC, 8.2 to 5.6 amps, rough length of time in this state = 2 to 3 minutes.
- SCP then showed charge state as Absorption, Battery as 14.5 VDC, 7.1 to 5.2 amps, rough length of time in this state = 3 to 4 minutes.
- SCP then showed charge state as Float, Battery as 13.7 VDC, amperage varies.

Bulk state varied in each test, since it is dependent on discharge state. Temperature reading on SCP ~ 35 F.
FWIW