Tongue weight question

[Gator Marsha]

We are considering a Minnie 2500RL, tongue weight 695 lbs. Two questions. Is this with the trailer loaded or unloaded? #2 - our TV has a max tongue weight limit of 740 lbs. we are concerned that the tongue weight will be too heavy once loaded.
Any thoughts; am I missing something? Does the weight distributing hitch help any with this?
This will be our first RV, in case you can't tell. Trying to put the weight puzzle together...

 

[Skip426]

Welcome to the forum.

In order to be of any real help , we're going to need all your tow vehicle numbers . GVWR, GCWR, and a full description of it . SUV? 1/2 Ton?
Many vehicles have the trailer tow capacity calculated with only the driver in the TV, so every passenger and cargo in the TV , has to be deducted from the trailer tow and tongue weight capacities.

 

[Skip426]

This post should help clear things up a little.

www.irv2.com/forums/f45/tow-vehicle-sizing-and-weight-calculators-89375.html

 

[Gator Mike]

Hi Skip426,
I'm with Marsha52 (her beloved husband), who asked the question. Thanks for your help. I have the specs on our TV:
TV: 2016 Toyota Sequoia 5.7L with factory tow package
curb weight: 5,730 (includes full tank gas, I believe)
cargo capacity: 1,310
GVWR: 7,100
GAWR: front 3,900; rear 4,280
Max tongue weight capacity: 740 (I have seen this number only on one Toyota resource; it is not in my owner's manual with all the other towing info - which seems like a grievous omission to me)
Trailer weight rating/max tow capacity: 7,400
GCWR: 13,600
From all the research we've done, it seems like our most limiting factor with the Winnebago Minnie 2500RL will be the tongue weight issue. The tongue weight shown in one of their brochures is 695 lbs. We neglected to find an actual number on/in the actual TT we looked at (my oversight). I assume that 695 figure is for the unloaded TT, so it seems like as soon as we start loading anything in the trailer, we are going to run up against the TV tongue wt limit of 740, aren't we? I understand we could put more weight in the rear of the TT to balance out the front some, but since the largest storage compartment is in the front near the hitch (as in most TTs), I think it would be difficult to do enough of that. Am I missing something? I also understand that a WD hitch will help move some of the weight load onto other axles of the TV and TT, but I am under the impression that I still have to keep the actual tongue weight bearing down on the TV hitch at or below 740. Am I wrong or misunderstanding anything? I admit that while I have read a lot about the WD hitch concept, it still seems a bit like magic to me. (I was a business major - no engineering or physics classes for me.) I apologize for the rambling and hope I've provided enough info. If not, let us know. Thanks again for the help.

 

[Skip426]

Mike; with your limited cargo capacity, the first thing you should do is load the truck ready for travel , DW, kids?, pets , tools and other camping gear you'd expect to put in the truck and then fill the tank and get the axle weights at a scale. Then compare to the axle ratings , and the tire ratings too, many factory tire packages are the bare minimum for the GVWR .
Your going to have to know exactly how much more weight you can handle on the rear axle in particular. Don't forget the weight of the weight distribution insert and bars, that alone can be as much as 100/125 lbs.
The 740 tongue weight sounds like the manufacturer has set it at 10% of the 7400 lb. tow capacity and that number is not always achievable, even with careful trailer loading. I'd expect a 7400 lb loaded trailer to be close to 900 on the tongue.
Currently in a KOA with very poor wifi , and must come into the office to post, so it may be a day or two before I can answer any more questions.
Your being careful in asking questions and correct to be getting more info, there are far to many overloaded RVs on the road ; running into problems.
Do, collect all the info you need and stay safe.

 

[lanerd]

Skip, I think he meant that the 740 lb limit was for the hitch on his Sequoia... not the tongue weight on that trailer he's looking at. All the rest of Skip's reply, and recommendations, is spot on. Great info.

So Mike. just for general info, the 695 listed tongue weight is the "dry" weight which doesn't include many options on the trailer. Also, since the tongue weight will vary with the amount of stuff you put in, or on, the trailer....the preferred method to determine the tongue weight (without measuring it on a scale) is to use 10% to 15% of the trailer's GVWR, which in this case is 1100 lbs (.15 x 7400)...worse case. You will probably never max out the weight on the trailer, but this will be a worse case condition. Typically, it will run about 12%, so about 880 lbs. Add to that all the weight you will put into the SUV and subtract the total from your 1310 lb cargo capacity. Any left over?

Keep in mind that the closer you get to the max capacities, the less your performance will be and your mpg, hill climbing ability, engine heat, transmission heat..etc. will all come into play. Personally, I think I would look for a lighter TT.

Good luck and I hope this helps.

Ron

 

[Badlands Bob-WO]

As soon as you put a battery on the tongue and fill the propane tanks, you will be over the max tongue weight. All that stuff you put into the front storage compartment will impact the tongue weight too. My Minnie 2201DS has a tongue weight of around 900 lbs. and we don't even have that much stuff. It adds up very quickly. That 1,310 lb cargo capacity is also going to come into play. I hope you have a small skinny family.

 

[Gator Mike]

Thanks, everyone, for all the very useful feedback. I understood everything. (!) I guess my main question at this point is this: if I load up the TT for the road, and stay under all the various limits (TV cargo capacity, axle limits, max weights on TV and TT and combined, etc.), but the weight on the TV hitch is above the Toyota stated max limit of 740, is that a safety no-no that would be dangerous? Some of your comments seem to suggest to me that as long as I keep the tongue weight between 10 - 15% of loaded TT weight, and don't violate any of the other limits, that I would be okay. But I may be misunderstanding those comments. If so, I apologize. Boy, there's a lot to learn, but I wan to do it right from the start. Thanks again!

 

[Skip426]

Boy, there's a lot to learn, but I want to do it right from the start. Thanks again!

Yes Mike doing it right and staying safe on the road is your ; and our ; primary concern.

Please , report back when you get your Toyota weighed , I'm very interested to see how much carrying capacity you have left , particularly on the rear axle. With the weight of a good weight distribution hitch and bars plus the 2500RL's tongue weight you could easily be over on the rear axle rating.
It may be a few days before I can get back online , currently 1/2 way home for my 5 months of snowbirding in SoCA, once again in an RV park with dead slow internet . I want to look into the 740 listed limit , because most hitches ( aftermarket ) that would be installed , would be rated for 10,000 trailer and 1,000 lbs tongue , even though the TV's listed max would be lower, as is yours at 7400. But it's possible that Toyota builds, and rates, their own.

 

[Gator Mike]

Yes Mike doing it right and staying safe on the road is your ; and our ; primary concern.

Please , report back when you get your Toyota weighed , I'm very interested to see how much carrying capacity you have left , particularly on the rear axle. With the weight of a good weight distribution hitch and bars plus the 2500RL's tongue weight you could easily be over on the rear axle rating.
It may be a few days before I can get back online , currently 1/2 way home for my 5 months of snowbirding in SoCA, once again in an RV park with dead slow internet . I want to look into the 740 listed limit , because most hitches ( aftermarket ) that would be installed , would be rated for 10,000 trailer and 1,000 lbs tongue , even though the TV's listed max would be lower, as is yours at 7400. But it's possible that Toyota builds, and rates, their own.

Skip, the 740 max number makes me wonder also if it is more a calculation based on the 7,400 max trailer weight, or based on some physical limit beyond which the hatch would fail. The Sequoia used to have a max towing weight of 10,000 lbs, starting in 2008, but dropped to 7,400 when Toyota signed on to the SAE J2807 methodology (2013, maybe). As far as I have been able to find out comparing specs for the different years, nothing changed; the engine, transmission, gear ratios, horsepower specs etc. remained the same. So unless they changed to a less capable hitch, I wonder if they used to advertise a 1,000 max tongue weight limit? I have not been able to find this out anywhere. If I knew that was the case, it would sure make me feel better! I plan to get the Sequoia weighed, and the axles separately, and will post what I find out.

 

[Badlands Bob-WO]

My F-150 manual states that I have a max tongue weight rating of 500 lbs. unless I use a weight distribution hitch. Then it goes to 1,000 lbs.

 

[Skip426]

Mike; if the early Sequoias ; with 10,000/1,000 TT/Tongue ratings ; had the same cargo capacity of 1,310 lbs. Then there is a good chance the rear axle was over the rated limit as soon as the WDH and trailer tongue were hooked on, AND there would only be a weight allowance for driver only in the vehicle.
Not a realistic scenario for 99.9% of the trailer towing public.

 

[Gator Mike]

Okay, finally found a scale in town. Weights on my Sequoia were as follows: front axle: 2,920 weighed (vs 3,900 GAWR); rear axle: 3,080 weighed (vs 4,280 GAWR): total 6,000 weighed (vs 7,100 GVWR). These weights were with both my wife and me in the car, a full tank of gas, and probably 40 - 50 lbs of tool box and misc stuff I keep in car. Any further insight is very appreciated!

 

[Skip426]

You have 1,100 lbs of cargo capacity left in your tow vehicle ( if you maintain the load, in the vehicle that you crossed the scales with) so with the advertised tongue weight, of the Mini and the weight of the distribution hitch assembly, you will have a small cushion before being overloaded.

BTW; in an earlier post you mentioned shifting the loaded weight in the trailer to the rear to keep the tongue weight down ; I'd recommend against that , there has to be a certain % of the trailer's total weight on the hitch to keep the vehicle /trailer combination from bouncing around on the highway.
I think that travel trailers a minimum 10>12 % is required , and I KNOW that it is downright dangerous to go below 15 % on a fifth wheel set up.

EDIT: Sorry for the delay in replying , I just returned from 5 months in the south and getting my home internet and e mail service back up and running has been a nightmare.

 

[majfrizz]

Mike,

here is a 20 minute video on how to match your truck (suv) to trailer. see if it helps.

Matching Trucks to Trailers

 

[blueridge-fl]

Just my opinion, but if I am close enough to exceeding the capabilities of the TV that I must jump through these hoops, I would move on to a different trailer or a different TV. There is a huge difference between a calm comfortable towing experience and one of those white-knuckle-envelope-pushing experiences that takes all the joy out of using the trailer.

 

[Edwin764]

I took delivery of a 2500RL in Feb 2018 and have had control problems. Trailer seems to be pushing the back end of the truck around. Finally got a certified trailer weighs with nothing of our stuff in the trailer. Trailer = 5380, tongue weight 940 lbs. That's 250 lbs over the spec for tongue weight. My 2018 F150 specs are 11,500 max trailer weight and 1150 tongue so I am at the very limit when it is loaded. I can pull it easily but not control it safely.

Working with the dealer LazyDays and Winnebago but they haven't been any help.

The truck has P275 tires original equipment. Will try LT275 to see if that helps.