Should the Breakaway Switch and Tongue Jack Be Fused on a 2023 Micro Minnie 2108TB?

[ejrobau]

I removed and relocated my tongue jack mounted fuse strip. One thing confuses me. Why is the breakaway switch and the tongue jack circuits attached to only the positive strip and not on the other side of the fuses? I used a marine rated six slot fuse box and connected the positive cable from the battery and the solar postive cable feed to the postive terminal and connected everything else to the individual fuses. Would this be a problem. Still don't understand why the breakaway switch adn the tongue jack seem to not be connected to fuses. Thanks in advance for any assistance. Everything seems to be working fine.

 

[Morich]

It will take more indepth info to make a good guess on the wiring. But one item to consider when looking at fuses is to ask what the fuse is meant to protect.
If we are running down the road and a wire gets shorted to the frame, we want a fuse to blow before the wire gets melted all the way back to the source or causes a fire.

On the breakaway, it may be less complex than other parts if we look at a few things.
Is there power on the wiring to the breakaway, under normal use? Or is there power on that wiring only when the tow has broken away?
If it is only hot after the tow is running away, maybe having a fuse is not a big deal. No need to worry about a short in the wiring if the car is likely to be totally in two minutes?

To determine the right plan, we have to look at both the WHAT as well as the WHY of the whole question.
And we don't get good online info for the trailer group, so it is harder to figure both questions and we have to look closer.

 

[creativepart]

I added your TT’s model info to your title but we could still benefit from knowing what model year you are asking about.

To receive the most helpful information we always need the model year, model name and model number in every post. Hint: most of us put this info into the Signature in our profile so that it shows on every post.

As to your question, I’m not sure. The breakaway just allows full 12v power to supply the electric brakes for full braking. In fact, I believe the breakaway does not redirect power to the brakes as that is always on, the switch prevents the delivery of power until the leash is pulled. No fuse needed, or wanted. The tongue jack is directly wired to the battery for maximum current supply. Could there be an internal fuse? Is a fuse wanted for that application?

Clearly, I’m not much help on these matters, hopefully someone more knowledgeable will chime in.

 

[Morich]

Thinking a bit further on the jack?
What are we trying to do with the fuse? We want to keep a short to ground from overheating the wire and possibly causing a fire might be one of the primary reasons to add a fuse. Not too much in that area to burn and the wire is not hard to replace if damaged?
But if we look at how short the wiring and when it is used, maybe a decision was made that it is not needed for a couple reasons? Just throwing in that idea!
If we are standing at the front where there is a very short run of wire and we are only powering the wire as we move the jack, and the wire gets hot, can't we just let go of the switch?
Not an engineer and no real idea of the what and why but it does seem a fuse might not be worthwhile to protect such a short run of wire if we could just act as a "manual fuse" by letting off on the switch?
Or are some of those small red boxes more than we might first think. Are some a breaker of the sort which resets once a short is cleared, not just points to connect wires?
I know that it can be really easy to miss the tiny little button the side of some that we sue to reset the manual sort that doesn't reset by themself!

 

[ejrobau]

The model year is 2023

 

[ejrobau]

2108TB. I ended up placing both of those items on a fuse. I don't think it will hurt, but maybe the break switch should not be on a fuse so if for some reason it trips the fuse and you don't notice it, power would not be available at all times.

As an aside, I love my micro minnie and have had it for about three years. I have made numerous improvement including conversion to LiFePo4 for battery power. I have 460 am hour total with two batteries. I also placed another 200 watt panel on the roof and I can plug in a 160 watt portable panel on the side input receiver. I also carry two additional portable 100 amp hour batteries that can connect direct to the 160 watt suit cases.

I did not put in an inverter. Did not want the complexity and opted out to just carry a small generator for the big wattage demand items.

Anyways, the fuses on the tongue exposed to the elements is a big design flaw. Cheap, and prone to ultimate failure. I now have the panel in the front basement right next to the cut off switch. I might just connect the two items mentioned to the positive supply lug and bypass the newly installed 30 amp fuse for each. Not sure.

 

[DEWEY-WO]

It is intentionally unfused as a safety measure. A fused breakaway switch with a blown fuse would in most cases not be detected by the owner, until it resulted in a runaway trailer.

If you want to fuse it, I would add a dedicated "shortstop" breaker (auto reset) to an unused slot in the tongue breaker/terminal strip and connect the breakaway switch to it. Note, even an auto reset shortstop breaker will permanently fail in a dead short situation. They are designed to protect against overload conditions, not dead shorts.

And always test the breakaway switch at least once a year, preferably at the beginning of the RV season.

 

[Morich]

One issue when we do mods because we don't think the Rv builder knows much is how things may work out in the long run!
As a worst case situation, what happens if we make a mod and it changes the way the breakaway works in such a way that it fails to stop the trailer if it breaks away? Say it breaks away and the wiring is not correct to stop the trailer and it kills a couple people?
There will be a real problem if it is found that we are the person responsible, not the RV builder!

Before modding what Winnebago has built, I try to keep in mind how much better they understand what they have built!
There are small details like why there is no fuse that can actually mean we don't know enough!
And that small mistake can cost us everything we have ever owned!

 

[ejrobau]

It is intentionally unfused as a safety measure. A fused breakaway switch with a blown fuse would in most cases not be detected by the owner, until it resulted in a runaway trailer.

If you want to fuse it, I would add a dedicated "shortstop" breaker (auto reset) to an unused slot in the tongue breaker/terminal strip and connect the breakaway switch to it. Note, even an auto reset shortstop breaker will permanently fail in a dead short situation. They are designed to protect against overload conditions, not dead shorts.

And always test the breakaway switch at least once a year, preferably at the beginning of the RV season.

This is exactly what I speculated. So, I will unfuse it and attach it to the postive lead with no fuses. Is there any harm to seperating the two leveling jack wires that are on one fuse to a fuse per leveling jack lead?

Also, want to note that the fuse I used for the breakaway switch is on a fuse that has a small light indicating whether or not it is blown. With frequent inspections as part of the departure checklist this could be easily noticed. However if it is blown during transport then it is a problem. Probably best to use original design concept and not fuse it.

This helps answer the last question as I previsouly speculated.

 

[ejrobau]

One issue when we do mods because we don't think the Rv builder knows much is how things may work out in the long run!
As a worst case situation, what happens if we make a mod and it changes the way the breakaway works in such a way that it fails to stop the trailer if it breaks away? Say it breaks away and the wiring is not correct to stop the trailer and it kills a couple people?
There will be a real problem if it is found that we are the person responsible, not the RV builder!

Before modding what Winnebago has built, I try to keep in mind how much better they understand what they have built!
There are small details like why there is no fuse that can actually mean we don't know enough!
And that small mistake can cost us everything we have ever owned!

Agree. However those fuses should not be placed on the tongue and exposed to the elements to corode and fail at the points of wire connections.

 

[Morich]

Fully agree and have mentionedon a number of posts. There ARE certain items which we can look at and improve. No doubt that there are things which are left a bit too cheap!
But what I meant to point out is that we need to move carefully when we begin to change things as we can miss some of the small points and turn an irritating item into something that doesn't work at all if we are not fully aware.
Like swimming without a life jacket? At times it seems so much more fun but then it may not work out too well if we get down to the details!

 

[DEWEY-WO]

Agree. However those fuses should not be placed on the tongue and exposed to the elements to corode and fail at the points of wire connections.

I sourced my replacement shortstop breakers from waytekwire.com. They have a 7 position enclosed shortstop breaker enclosure that you would be be interested in. They also stock copper bus bars as well. You may want to browse their products.

https://www.waytekwire.com/catalog/circuit-breakers/short-stop-circuit-breakers/pollak-52-249-7-circuit-breaker-mounting-bracket

 

[bcborn]

The Break-A-Way is fused, at least on my 2023.

The positive wire goes to the auto reset breakers on the terminals strip mounted on the frame. I assume the reason there is a fuse inline with the jack (may/may not use circuit breaker), is likely cause fuses come shipped with the jack and not with a break-a-way switch.

In both cases Winnebago ensures they are (fused/circuit breaker) protected.

 

[DEWEY-WO]

Mine did as well, but was connected to the line/battery side of the fuse effecting a direct unfused connection to the battery.

 

[bcborn]

Here is a picture of IdahoHunter's terminal strip. As you can see the breakaway is protected twice as battery power comes in on the lower right. Travels across the copper buss and back through another mini breaker to Break-A-Way wiring. As you will notice the tongue jack is with the battery connection, had it not come with it's own fuse I'm sure Winnebago would have connected it on the upper side of that mini breaker.

Her is my link to the junction box enclosure

2025 Micro Minnie 2108FBS tongue electrical box?

Bill, it looks like a good chunk of the wires are coming from the left. You could mount the new box to the left to pick up wire length.

www.winnieowners.com

 

[DEWEY-WO]

Here is a pic of my 2023 2108ds breaker strip (missing the stablizer breaker). My main battery feed along with the breakaway wire are both connected to the upper terminal on the far right 30 amp breaker which then feeds the lower copper bus and distributes battery to the various loads. This results in a direct unfused breakaway 12v connection as per the official Winnebago schematic.

 

[bcborn]

If the battery wire is the top right as you say, the other wire to the top right I believe is the solar controller (goes up into front wall). Am I correct to assume the lower right wire comes from the Tongue Jack. The heavy red on the left goes to the battery Disconnect switch.

The lower left black wire is likely the break-a-way switch wire. It goes into the galvanized box behind the cross member and splices to the black wire from 7 wire tow harness.

Thinking the other black wire goes to the Slide Control Box.

Everything is fused by a mini breaker, except what I think is the to tongue jack which has its own inline fuse. The Solar Controller has a fuse at the controller.

My 2108FBS schematic from Winnebago says I have 5 mini circuit breakers (only have 4 in reality). Mine was originally like yours, but had a 4th circuit breaker (Stabilizer Jacks).

 

[klook]

Breakaway switches are never supposed to be fused....period. They must work and cannot blow the fuse when needed. I have never seen a fused one, from the factory.