Rear A/C Loses Power on Generator in 1999 Adventurer 35C

[Morich]

I hate to obsess over what might not matter but I see two options of the 30 amp RV,one canadian and one US. The only difference I've spotted for right now is the layout of breakers, but thought to check as the way the transfer switch is drawn is not making it clear to me how they get power through it??
US versions match what you have?

Or does it match the Canadian version? Difference seems to be 20-15-20-15 on US but
CA has
lower breaker size on fifth breaker and breakers three and four size are reversed?

Butt there is a different problem that I am not understanding on why the cord seems to
be meant to feed LESS power on a single 10-2 wire feed than the genrator which has that same single 10-2 PLUS a 12-2. Seems like two wires shouold be expected to give more power than one of the same size??

But wired the same at tranasfer switch as far as I can see.
A bit confused here somewhere!
I've noted your last post above and will do some looking!!

 

[Morich]

Any chance there is a drawing in the cover of the transfer switch to explain how power goes through it. This is not the way I find Winnebago normally draws their switch and I'm not following how it can work??

 

[levasseurjohn]

I am going to pull the switch out so I can get to where the relay feeds the back AC unit. I have read where these catching fire are not that uncommon. When switch under high load, like turning on the generator with shore power on and both AC units on will cause the contacts in the relay to get burned by arking. I can see by the schematic where one side of the relay can take power to front AC unit and the ot. her part not because the contacts are shot. I think we have it. real close.

With the generator on, hearing the relays click in the back room AC with no AC points to the switch.

 

[levasseurjohn]

I'm at the Transfer Switch but can't get the cover off, without breaking it. There is two tabs on top and two on bottom. Try as I may to pry the cover off, no luck. Is there a easy way to get the cover off?

I need to get inside to check the voltage out of the relay. I see two seperate wires coming out together. I assume one is for each AC Unit.

 

[levasseurjohn]

Any chance there is a drawing in the cover of the transfer switch to explain how power goes through it. This is not the way I find Winnebago normally draws their switch and I'm not following how it can work??

How do I get the cover off?

 

[levasseurjohn]

Forced it off. Says to pull out and up. That didn't work, but force did. Try to make heads and tails of this.

 

[levasseurjohn]

Can anyone recommend a Power Switch that is compatible with the 1999 Adventurer C35? The one in is a Todd Power Switch.

 

[creativepart]

By “Power Switch” do you mean “Automatic Transfer Switch”? I believe that “Power Switch” in this case is just a brand or product name.

Look for compatible ATSs from Southwire.

Here’s a link to an old thread here for a similar issue on a 1999 Adventurer:

Power Switch Automatic Transfer Switch

I have a 1999 Winnebago Adventurer 35u, with a Onan Genset. The power transfer switch, which has a brand name of POWER SWITCH burned out. I'm wondering if a person can purchase the exact same unit, and if not, what is the best alternative, and how hard is it to install for a DIY'er. I'm sure...

www.winnieowners.com

 

[Morich]

Running into a wall on info there! I checked AI for infor on the brand Power switch and got response that was not a brnand! Likely one which has fallen out of the market, so that current info from AI is not correct?
And the drawings do not click with what little I know of transfer switches! The replacement may be hard to do as well as this seems to be a different switch and doing different things than I have seen. Most transfer switches on RV have the cord hot wires and neutral and the same from the generator.
Not seeing the sense of it!

 

[Morich]

This may just be something I have not spotted before but from my looking, I have not seen a transfer switch that has had any second connection to the generator, only the normal 110AC that we are switching . Without knowing more, I'm stumped on what that 12-2 connection does, even wether it is power from the generator to the load center to feed something further out OR is that to bring power FROM the load center to the generator for something I don't know about?

 

[levasseurjohn]

Tood was forced out of business many years ago as their units caught fire. I see a lot of posts about units burning up.

I looked at several units, and a lot of them have the same. One input from the plug, one from the generator, and one for each AC unit. Most 30-amp RVs suggest not running both AC units at the same time, as it draws close to the max for the Power Control System. On shore power that may trip and shut off the bedroom unit. My Adventurer runs 28 to 30 amps when both are running. If I put on anything else, like a coffee maker, it shuts down the bedroom unit, as it should.

I will be testing the Todd Switch tomorrow to see whether, when it is on the generator, it supplies power to both the front and rear outputs. I suspect that the rear will have no power coming out. When it is on Shore power, I figure both front and rear will have power. This should be a quick check to prove the Relay in the Switch is bad. I can try to find one compatible or put in a 30-amp switch that will put generator power on the output from the switch, bypassing the relay. I could put the switch next to the thermostat in the bedroom. The Go Power TS-30 30 Amp Automatic Transfer Switch, Dual Source Compatibility, Generator Delay Switch, Easy Installation, Compact Design looks like it will fit the bill for $123.00.

I have learned so much about Power Management and Automatic Power Switching in the past few days. If I were younger, I might go into business fixing these things.

I will fill you in on what the final outcome is.

 

[levasseurjohn]

Tood was forced out of business many years ago as their units caught fire. I see a lot of posts about units burning up.

I looked at several units, and a lot of them have the same. One input from the plug, one from the generator, and one for each AC unit. Most 30-amp RVs suggest not running both AC units at the same time, as it draws close to the max for the Power Control System. On shore power that may trip and shut off the bedroom unit. My Adventurer runs 28 to 30 amps when both are running. If I put on anything else, like a coffee maker, it shuts down the bedroom unit, as it should.

I will be testing the Todd Switch tomorrow to see whether, when it is on the generator, it supplies power to both the front and rear outputs. I suspect that the rear will have no power coming out. When it is on Shore power, I figure both front and rear will have power. This should be a quick check to prove the Relay in the Switch is bad. I can try to find one compatible or put in a 30-amp switch that will put generator power on the output from the switch, bypassing the relay. I could put the switch next to the thermostat in the bedroom. The Go Power TS-30 30 Amp Automatic Transfer Switch, Dual Source Compatibility, Generator Delay Switch, Easy Installation, Compact Design looks like it will fit the bill for $123.00.

I have learned so much about Power Management and Automatic Power Switching in the past few days. If I were younger, I might go into business fixing these things.

I will fill you in on what the final outcome is.

NOTE: When the Power Management system detects an overload, it's the 12 volts that shuts the back AC unit off, not the 110V AC. It just turns the compressor and or fan off. That is working on my unit, as I can hear the relays clicking. The Todd Automatic Power Switch has a bad reputation with many failures. This unit I am happy to replace with something reliable.

 

[levasseurjohn]

Here is what I found in two days of chasing the Power Control System and Automatic Transfer Switch.

I have a rear AC Unit that does not work on the generator. The front unit and all other AC plugs works fine. In chasing how the Power Control works I learned that when there is an overload either, generator or Grid, it turns off the rear AC unit. I checked that out and it was working but still no power to rear unit. In the attached file, you can see on the left that the rear AC unit has a seperate power coming out of the Transfer Switch hense why you have two sets of wires coming out of the box. One for each AC Unit. When the Transfer Switch Relay goes bad, and Todd had a terrable record of units catching fire when relays shorted out. When the points on the relay for the section that supplies power to rear unit from the generator, it doesn't work.

Now the question. On replacement units they have ONE outlet for power. Still has the two inputs. I haven't solved that one yet as all of the units I have looked at have one output. Maybe the two inputs from the generator are to cut the amps in half.

 

[levasseurjohn]

I hate to obsess over what might not matter but I see two options of the 30 amp RV,one canadian and one US. The only difference I've spotted for right now is the layout of breakers, but thought to check as the way the transfer switch is drawn is not making it clear to me how they get power through it??
US versions match what you have?View attachment 2459878
Or does it match the Canadian version? Difference seems to be 20-15-20-15 on US but
CA has
lower breaker size on fifth breaker and breakers three and four size are reversed?
View attachment 2459879
Butt there is a different problem that I am not understanding on why the cord seems to
be meant to feed LESS power on a single 10-2 wire feed than the genrator which has that same single 10-2 PLUS a 12-2. Seems like two wires shouold be expected to give more power than one of the same size??
View attachment 2459880
But wired the same at tranasfer switch as far as I can see.
A bit confused here somewhere!
I've noted your last post above and will do some looking!!

At the bottom left it says US. There is 4 schematics on the page. Others are Canada. Not sure why but the size of the wire and breaker would not make it not switch. It switches when shore power is unplugged.. When the relay is off is when the generator can pass through. The generator gets through to main power but not to AC Roof RR.

 

[Morich]

Sounds like you are able to sort the questions far more than I had gotten. Every time I looked T seemed top run into small details that did not seem they would make any difference, like a 15 amp versus 20? That is such a small difference that is did not seem big enough to run a air unit so a 5 amp difference was just confusion or maybe a slip in the drawing!
But my understanding is not what is needed! Ican go for years without understandia lot of things!
BBBBBut the bigger question is what you can get currently for aswitch as what I see now doesn't seem to have any provisions for the smaller 12-2 wire and connection?
This is what I am used to seeing on RV and had never really spotted a different one that had more wires and connections from the load center to the switch.

https://www.winnebago.com/Files/Files/Winnebago/Resources/Diagram/2021/000156457.pdf

And reading through one of those older links, did bring a question of what might work best if one gets into changeing the transfer switch.
I have never owned an RV with a switch and never really felt it mattered if it made the equipment less complex. When dealing with what I called "manual transfer" it did not seem at all hard to just leave the cord plugged into the outlet from the generator until we got to a place where we ahd power. Then as part of seting up water, etc. I would pull the power cord plug out of the generator plug and move it to the campground plug. It did not feel like a big thing!
Some might depend on personal outlook or use but if getting a transfer switch to match what you now have, I might consider just doing away with the switch and just move the cord manually.
Leaving the cord plugged into the generator let us do any roadside stops or opther times when getting out might have been a problem. No getting out if it was raining? Then when wanting to move to commercial power, iot was such a small effort that I never considered a switch any big thing!
Save a few dollars and lots of headscratching if no currect switches fit the situation?
But I plead guilty to missing a lot of things on this setup! Basic things like which way the power goes on that 12-2 connection? Does it feed power from the generator to the load center or from load center to generator? If I can't tell which is the source, my thinking is prone to not work! UGH!

 

[levasseurjohn]

Sounds like you are able to sort the questions far more than I had gotten. Every time I looked T seemed top run into small details that did not seem they would make any difference, like a 15 amp versus 20? That is such a small difference that is did not seem big enough to run a air unit so a 5 amp difference was just confusion or maybe a slip in the drawing!
But my understanding is not what is needed! Ican go for years without understandia lot of things!
BBBBBut the bigger question is what you can get currently for aswitch as what I see now doesn't seem to have any provisions for the smaller 12-2 wire and connection?
This is what I am used to seeing on RV and had never really spotted a different one that had more wires and connections from the load center to the switch.

https://www.winnebago.com/Files/Files/Winnebago/Resources/Diagram/2021/000156457.pdf

And reading through one of those older links, did bring a question of what might work best if one gets into changeing the transfer switch.
I have never owned an RV with a switch and never really felt it mattered if it made the equipment less complex. When dealing with what I called "manual transfer" it did not seem at all hard to just leave the cord plugged into the outlet from the generator until we got to a place where we ahd power. Then as part of seting up water, etc. I would pull the power cord plug out of the generator plug and move it to the campground plug. It did not feel like a big thing!
Some might depend on personal outlook or use but if getting a transfer switch to match what you now have, I might consider just doing away with the switch and just move the cord manually.
Leaving the cord plugged into the generator let us do any roadside stops or opther times when getting out might have been a problem. No getting out if it was raining? Then when wanting to move to commercial power, iot was such a small effort that I never considered a switch any big thing!
Save a few dollars and lots of headscratching if no currect switches fit the situation?
But I plead guilty to missing a lot of things on this setup! Basic things like which way the power goes on that 12-2 connection? Does it feed power from the generator to the load center or from load center to generator? If I can't tell which is the source, my thinking is prone to not work! UGH!

I ordered the best one, the Go Power unit. It's rated 9.9. I swapped the two outputs. With generator one was dead. After swapping, the rear AC unit works great. That tells me the Todd switch has a bad relay. It is recommended that both output wires go to the one output from the new unit. None of the units available use two outputs. I could run both from the one working side but that could overload the remaining contact in the relay and cause a fire, which was the issue that brought the Todd company down. The Go Power has simple connectors and says it can be changed in ten minutes. Not much ever happens in ten minutes. At 82 everything takes longer.

Thanks for your help as we both learned together.

 

[Morich]

Sounds good.
Now where did I put my glasses?

 

[levasseurjohn]

I ordered the best one, the Go Power unit. It's rated 9.9. I swapped the two outputs. With generator one was dead. After swapping, the rear AC unit works great. That tells me the Todd switch has a bad relay. It is recommended that both output wires go to the one output from the new unit. None of the units available use two outputs. I could run both from the one working side but that could overload the remaining contact in the relay and cause a fire, which was the issue that brought the Todd company down. The Go Power has simple connectors and says it can be changed in ten minutes. Not much ever happens in ten minutes. At 82 everything takes longer.

Thanks for your help as we both learned together.

All fixed... Hook 2 AC units and Out to Panel together as there is only one outlet AC Power. U used the 6 buss snap connectors which made the job easier.

 

[levasseurjohn]

New Go Power seems to be working. Tied both air conditioning units to the one output line To AC Panel. In checking the amps on the Power Control Module on the wall, each unit shows only 2 amps. With both running it shows 8 amps. It should be about 26 amps. I can run both AC units and put on the microwave, and everything still runs. One time it jumped to 32 amps and the rear AC turned off. When I just ran the two units, the rear one came on after three minutes and showed 8 amps. Somewhere, the Power Control is not getting the right amp reading. The air conditioners will not run on 3 amps.

Any ideas why the Power Control is not registering correctly? It worked before I changed the Automatic Power Switch. The old box had a burned relay from the generator to the rear AC unit, as it didn't come on ever. Looking at the schematic it show the rear unit on a seperate circuit out of the box.

 

[levasseurjohn]

I did replace the Automatic Power Switch and may have a lose connection going out. I read where a bad connection could cause low readings at Power Management. Does anyone else think that?