Norcold Fridge Only Cooling on Shore Power in 2017 View 24J

[TimothyPaul]

Hi All - I looked through most of the threads, and it looks like most people have the exact opposite issue I do. My first question, how do you know which frig you have ? I opened the frig, looked all around but do not see a model listed anywhere.

Here is my situation - first, my screen went blank, so it is very difficult to even see what is going on. The frig is working fine on shore power, but does not seem to cool at any other time. I am not sure if it is supposed to run on propane or battery when off grid - but it seems to not do either. I double check to make sure the propane was on. I am getting red flashing but not any flashing sequence when not on shore power. Looking through one of the other threads - I saw a trouble shooting manual - it it looks like if there is a failure, you should get 10 red flashes - pause - etc. Thats not happening on mine, just seems like it is red flashing consistently. Kinda makes me think it is not a fridge issue, but more of it’s not getting a signal to switch over to another power source. I have not been able to check the main panel fuse bank yet, hopefully will be able to do that later today. But that wouldn’t explain the blank screen (would it ?).

Everything was working well when I bought the RV back in July, so I tend to think maybe I did something while switching from shore power?

 

[Morich]

Lots of small points on each RV that may change what we need to do, so the first big thing is to figure what we have!
Like in a house, the frig is just an added items and may be different, so we need to look.
There should have been a bag of info that moves with the RV when it is sold, if you have that, it can be a big step to look there for a manual for the frig. It should tell you lots about how to work the frig you have.
But those get thrown away at times, so I looked at the parts catalog here:

Parts Catalog

Once getting down to the appliances, I see you should have a three way frig, meaning it should work on 12VDCshore power110AC or propane!

But you need the manual to find how to work the frig and what the lights mean. It may be true that you are not turning it on correctly, but no harm is expected, it just may not work!
This drawing shows what was installed but we often find things get changed so we need to check this is what you have??
Then if this looks correct, I would expect to find a tag, maybe inside the front doors and that should give the model. OR there may be a panel on the outside/back of the frig to remove to find a tag?? I never even try to remember what each does, so I go looking for a book on the model I find!

 

[creativepart]

Have you checked your Operator’s Manual? That will give you a clue as to what kind of Fridge you have and how it operates.

I checked the brochure archive on Winnebago’s website. Unfortunately there is only a 2016 and 2018 brochure and not your 2017 model year. The 2018 has a compressor fridge so, that doesn’t run on propane. But the 2016 brochure doesn’t specify what kind of fridge.

 

[be happy]

As already stated by great folks that you need to find the model of your frig. Richard gave you information to start with. I would take that info and call Lichtsinn RV (the go to Winnebago folks) and ask about the frig.

Lichtsinn RV | Winnebago RV Sales, RV Parts & RV Service Dealer | Newmar Dealer

Lichtsinn RV, the Top Winnebago Dealer of Winnebago MotorHomes featuring Winnebago Motor Homes, Newmar Freedom Aire Motorhomes and Used RVs. We also offer RV Parts and RV Service.

www.lichtsinn.com

You should be able to look at the back of the frig through the outside access door. There are fuses there in some sort of plastic box. Also do not know if your frig is covered under this safety add on or not. If so there may be a small black unit that will have a blinking light. That unit is made to shut off the propane when things get to hot. If thats your case you may need to reset that piece of equipment.

Good Luck

 

[Morich]

Looking at the owners manual here:

Operator Manuals | Winnebago Owner Manuals

Find and view the operator manual here by searching for your specific year and model from our list.

www.winnebago.com

The directions have a small point on operation that is new to me. Might be part of the hangup? Running down the road I would have assumed okay on 12VDC but when we stopped and plugged to shore power, does it switch to AC or does it take manual change?

Seems it might be easy to run on propane while driving and then assume it working after we stopped? But any automatic change to propane would depend on having the propane valve open!
Lots of small points for each type frig and I would have to read carefully!

 

[TimothyPaul]

Wow - great information. Thank you all. So - interesting enough, I pulled and checked the 12v side of the fuse box. There were two fuses labelled fridge, one was a 3amp and another was a 20amp. I pulled both and tested with my ohm meter and both checked good. But here is the weird thing. I went back to the fridge, and the panel was working. Cycling through the settings, propane - green light came on, 120v AC - green light, and then on battery - red flashes (wrench code 7). But then I came in and saw Morich's second post, and I did not test with engine running - but - I think - and have no clue why, but removing and resetting the 12v fuses most likely fixed what ever was funky. Is that possible ?

 

[Morich]

WOW! Has anybody else noticed the new form of diagrams being posted for our RV? I thought to check the wiring on this RV and the new form is really a downgrade for being able to read it!
Seems each time there is "progress" it turns up we get less!
With the loss of the 12VDC schematics after the 2010 year and now the new drawings changed to one which is so dim it is hard to see the small info we do get, it is becoming more and more difficult to read and use the info posted.

And while on that complaint, have you checked the results of the new COLA and new rates for your social security? My wife is beginning to do some tax looking and got a shock as she is losing $80 and I'm losing $40 each month!

Basic plan seems to be that if you put in more over your lifetime, you get a smaller cut than if you earned less? That combined with taxing $8400 more of your Social security will make a major difference for some!

 

[Morich]

Possible? Almost anything can be if we get into the more complex controls. I did not read the total manual to see if there is a reset mentioned but it is possible.
I have spent lots of time looking for trouble in manuals and one of the big "funnies" is how the books are written.
Some of the worst manuals I have ever tried to read were the ones which I first assumed to be easier as they were totally written by US folks for US folks. That made me assume them easier. WRONG!
The Rockwell-Collins manual we got out of Richardson, Texas were far worse than what we got from Fujitsu or Nippon Electric (NEC!) which were far more complete and easy to use. There were some funny thing about sentence structure in the translation to English but they DID try to give you all you needed.
Even in the schools in Dallas, we were never able to confirm some of the info we were to study was going to be correct for the type microwave we had.
We were just assumed to know enough to spot when they were talking about a system using a different frequency!

Learning to read "around" the faults in manuals is not one I have mastered, even after retiring! They seem to leave a lot of potholes in the road!

Best of luck is all we get?

 

[Seymour2Lane]

Greetings,
On our 2016 View 24V we have a 3 way Norcold 3150 fridge.
Ours has worked well since our purchase in 2018 - aside from the propane flame blowing out in high crosswinds.
This is just an FYI note regarding an error in the owners manual for the 2016 model year...
We found out right away that when set to Auto, it wouldn't switch to 12V (engine running) even though the manual said it would. We just figured that there was an issue with the 12V part of the fridge and for several years we just ran it on propane while travelling down the road.
We have since figured out that the 12V setting does work when manually set (with the engine running).
It turns out that the earlier (2014-2015) model 3150 did switch to 12V automatically and that Norcold made a change but Winnebago never corrected the owners manual for the 2016.
Regards, Mike

 

[TimothyPaul]

Thank you everyone - seems as though we are working now from all power sources ! You guys are awesome!

I don’t have time right now, but my only gripe is on battery we only cool down to about 44-48 degrees. So it will be something moving forward after the New Yar…

 

[TimothyPaul]

WOW! Has anybody else noticed the new form of diagrams being posted for our RV? I thought to check the wiring on this RV and the new form is really a downgrade for being able to read it!
Seems each time there is "progress" it turns up we get less!
With the loss of the 12VDC schematics after the 2010 year and now the new drawings changed to one which is so dim it is hard to see the small info we do get, it is becoming more and more difficult to read and use the info posted. View attachment 2398087


And while on that complaint, have you checked the results of the new COLA and new rates for your social security? My wife is beginning to do some tax looking and got a shock as she is losing $80 and I'm losing $40 each month!

Basic plan seems to be that if you put in more over your lifetime, you get a smaller cut than if you earned less? That combined with taxing $8400 more of your Social security will make a major difference for some!

Yea - I am on a small fixed SSA disability, and mine went down $23/month with the cost of living increase….

 

[bigbAZ]

I don’t have time right now, but my only gripe is on battery we only cool down to about 44-48 degrees. So it will be something moving forward after the New Yar…

This is typical with the 12 volt mode and it is due to Winnebago using #12 wire and running it too far resulting in voltage drop.

For example: I had 15-20 feet of #12 plus the length of the power cables from the batteries to the fuse box resulting in only 11.2 volts at the fridge element while driving. Doing the math I was getting only 125 watts out of the element which is rated at 175 watts @13.5 volts! I re-wired with 8 feet of #8 wire directly to the batteries for a result of 13 volts at the fridge with an increase of 44 watts or 35% more cooling. We went from abysmal performance while driving using 12 volts to excellent performance, it now stays just as cold as if we were on gas. Before the rewire it would gradually get warmer and warmer during travel.

Check out this site and read what he has to say about poor 12 volt operation at the bottom of the page, second paragraph in the blue section. (Pay no mind to the 240 volt reference as he is located in Labrador)

Correct Gas/Electric Fridge Venting

 

[TimothyPaul]

This is typical with the 12 volt mode and it is due to Winnebago using #12 wire and running it too far resulting in voltage drop.

For example: I had 15-20 feet of #12 plus the length of the power cables from the batteries to the fuse box resulting in only 11.2 volts at the fridge element while driving. Doing the math I was getting only 125 watts out of the element which is rated at 175 watts @13.5 volts! I re-wired with 8 feet of #8 wire directly to the batteries for a result of 13 volts at the fridge with an increase of 44 watts or 35% more cooling. We went from abysmal performance while driving using 12 volts to excellent performance, it now stays just as cold as if we were on gas. Before the rewire it would gradually get warmer and warmer during travel.

Check out this site and read what he has to say about poor 12 volt operation at the bottom of the page, second paragraph in the blue section. (Pay no mind to the 240 volt reference as he is located in Labrador)

Correct Gas/Electric Fridge Venting

Interesting - when you wired it direct to the battery, does it still function automatically switching between power sources, or did you add some type of manual switch for the DC 12v power.

 

[bigbAZ]

Interesting - when you wired it direct to the battery, does it still function automatically switching between power sources, or did you add some type of manual switch for the DC 12v power.

The 3 amp circuit is the control circuit so the direct circuit from the batteries just replaces the 20 amp circuit and there is no change in operation.

 

[Morich]

Going back to refresh the memory, I see a small point on your post 6 above which may help ease your mind a bit?
You mentioned checking the fuses and that can be a point to consider how you checked them.
There are many ways to go about checking a fuse is good. The quicker easier way is to just check the voltage at the small openings at the top of some fuse designs. We can just run down the output side of the fuse and make sure there is voltage at that point to prove the fuse is good! Very quick and easy BUT it also can make you chase yourself for days, so I try not to be that quick!
The problem with checking the voltage at each of the openings on top is that it WILL show you if the fuse is good and you may be running straight past the fact that the leg of the fuse that carries the power out from that fuse to the RV may be corroded and NOT passing the power!
We can easily trick ourself into going to the next point along the line, not finding voltage there but since we know the fuse is good, we may jump to the wire between those two points being bad! UGH!
You are now fighting to find a defect in a wire that has no defect but just a bit of corrosion!
On delicate equipment, I may go with just testing the points but on RV that generally have pretty hardy stuff, we can help to avoid the corrosion confusion by pulling the fuse and testing continuity on it.
The simple act of pulling the fuse and reinserting it, may be enough to knock the corrosion off!

So when you suddenly find it working after pulling the fuse and reinserting it can be just a matter of knocking a bit of the corrosion off the fuses holder!
RV are much more prone to corrosion for lots of small points. Things like the weather and how we may heat the RV and then let it set for a month in the cold?

RV are less apt to wear out as they are likely to rust out.
So get out there and USE them every chance you get??

 

[Morich]

While it is often easy to say Winnebago has no idea how to build RV, There are often lots of info missed when we look a bit deeper.
In the case of thinking the 12Vwiring is not good enough due to being too long, we may need to look at how that wring runs before going with that idea?
In other RV the wiring is likely to be different, but that does not seem to be the case in YOUR RV, which is what really matters to you!
This is the drawing showing your frig and where the 12VDC comes from.

With the frig being in the cabinet next to the load center and converter, I do not see any extreme length of cable that would cause a brownout condition that you would not notice!
Several things figure into this idea. When plugged into power, there should be no problem with the frig cooling on 110AC by any lack of power.
When not plugged in and driving, there should also be plenty of power available as the engine alternator is connected directly to the coach supply coming from the load center. We would certainly expect that alternator to be plenty of power to the load center where the frig 12VDC is split off from the other 12v loads.

Unless you are noting some type of overall loss of 12VDC, I can 't see any way to improve the frig 12VDC operation by beefing up the cable from the batteries!
Have you noted any change or failures in the other 12VDC items working off the load center? When voltage goes low, current goes high and that means fuses blow.
Any inside lights going dim, the water pump being slow, or other signs the voltage is bad at the load center?

I can't really see any way the wiring from the load center to the frig could be made much shorter in any practical way! If the voltage from the batteries to the load center is no good, ALL things on the load center will be working with low voltage, not just the frig!

I would suggest to NOT confuse the two issues as different RV may have different problems and we need to look at what has happened to OUR specific RV!


Assuming is dangerous but if we assume you have the 3150 frig, this is the section of the troubleshooting chart which addresses the code 7 you report and it does seem to point directly to a fuse /power problem.
That put together with things clearing when you looked at fuses, really does seem to say you found the problem, even if accidentally!

If the builder info suggests 10-15 volts is a good level, that seems a pretty wide range of acceptable power and I don't go looking for trouble!

 

[bigbAZ]

All one needs to do is test the incoming voltage at the fridge when it is running on 12 volts. If you're not seeing around 13 volts when running you are not getting the full rated wattage out of the heating element. If I recall the elements are rated at 13.5 volts just like automotive lamps.

 

[Morich]

Yes, agree that getting the voltage to the frig is important. But when we look at what happened, as the 12VDC heating failed completely but then returned when he pulled the fuses and checked them, It seems to me that the problem was not a wire too small but the corrosion building on the fuse connection that carries that power! A high resistance connection acts very much like an undersized wire when we look at how much current will get through the corroded connection.
One of the problems with using current measurements to sort trouble is that it has so many issues to confuse things.

In your case, running a new larger wire may certainly have cleared your problem of low voltage to the heating element.
But that brings the question of whether Winnebago designed it wrong or did you also use a new fuse and holder. If you used a new fuse, is there anything to say the better performance was not just getting a better connection?

Over the years, I have been so much impressed with the way Winnebago builds and designs, that I am very aware that I need to check the way I am using and maintaining what they build, long before I jump to the idea that they do not know how to build RV!

But then a 2011 Via and a 2017 view are certainly not built the same, so the two questions are not likely to have the same problems nor the same solutions! One big thing when I take a look at your RV is how much different the two are!
Your frig being on the passenger side is near the same location but with your load center being totally near the rear and on the other side of the RV will certainly make the wiring from load center to RV much longer!
That may be one of the items they worked to improve when designing the 2017

I work to understand what they build but I am very slow to say they are wrong! models?

 

[bigbAZ]

Just looking at a voltage drop chart, a load of 13-14 amps at 12 volts run for 15-20 feet falls into the #10 to #8 wire size category to keep VD under 3%. I am very confident that was my issue. It may not be for the OP but a simple voltage check only takes seconds and tells you a lot. As you probably know voltage drop on 12 volt circuits can be substantial under heavy loads in just a short distance.

I don't consider what a manufacturer states as "acceptable" if it can be made better by increasing the minimum and when talking about cooling my food I want every watt I can get.

BTW the factory wiring was a single dedicated AWG 12 with the only connection points being at the fuse and at the terminal block on the back of the fridge, neither of which was compromised. I left that circuit in place and now use it to power an alarm and a cooling fan for the generator.

 

[Morich]

Different RV, so different wiring and different mods to consider!
No big story there!