Need tips in wiring an Inverter on my Rig

[Elqueso2]

I'm new to the group, I know you guys are probably thinking, oh no another inverter thread….., but I have been watching Inverter videos and reading articles until my head is ready to explode. I am looking for an inverter to power a small Keurig, toaster oven, TV and Satellite Receiver, and Microwave. I currently own a 2005 31’ Winnebago Minnie Class C that I resurrected from the dead because it sat for over 7 years. It’s in really great shape now and I wired in a lot of new electronics.

The current config is (2) Group 31 lead filled deep cycle in Parallel, Onan 4K Gen, Winegard Traveler Ant, and changed all light bulbs to LED. I have a Hughes Surge protector and because my power compartment is so small, I ran the main power cable through the floor and into a mounted 50 Cal ammo can for storage under that compartment. There is no transfer switch in the rig and have to manually plug in the internal power plug into either the genterator or shore power connector. My plan is to throw away the stock 300w boat anchor of an inverter and go with a 2000W Pure Sine Wave Inverter with On-Grid Transfer Switch. The Inverter with transfer switch is optional because I would like to also wire in a transfer switch that could handle Shore Power, Gen Power and the Inverter. Was thinking the on-board transfer switch might make the config a bit easier and don’t want to wire in 2 transfer switches.

Whatever road I go down, I want to make sure that I can add in solar panels, Controller, wiring, and any other device that will all work with what I am’ going to choose if that makes sense. Trying to do this in steps to ease the ol’ pocket book. It also would be nice to have the inverter feed all my 110V outlets in the rig if that’s possible. I could wire in a separate breaker panel with its own dedicated outlets, but I think plugging and unplugging the microware and other appliances could get cumbersome when switching back and forth the main power. I am really handy Mechanically and electronically so mounting/wiring anything in will be pretty straight forward. I'm also looking at the Victron smart shunt 500A ip65Oh to monitor my batteries.
I also will be looking at changing them to 6V Cart Batteries. OH Yeah, When the rig is not in use, I have 2 Noco battery tenders to keep my coach and main battery topped off. I’m looking to see what others have done for their rigs and get a good shove in the right direction. Thanks, Mike

 

[RayIN]

I'm not good with advising about this subject. Other members have extensive experience. I'll just say;
Welcome to the Winnebago discussion forums! Then watch and read the replies to your questions.

 

[Elqueso2]

I'm not good with advising about this subject. Other members have extensive experience. I'll just say;
Welcome to the Winnebago discussion forums! Then watch and read the replies to your questions.

Thanks!!!

 

[Morich]

I might throw in some ideas of what some of the items mention do and some of the limits.
The one big limit is how much power the inverter can make from the batteries and for how long.
That means the batteries go down way too quick if we use too much power OR the inverter is not big enough to handle several of the loads mentioned at the same time. I don't see need for a transfer switch on the inverter because I "think" the On-Grid Transfer Switch means it will switch between battery use or shore power / cord use as a built in feature!
Do some checking before trusting that as the term is a little different than I've seen. I think that is right but never fully trust any info from the internet without checking!

Part of the decision on which inverter and battery combo works best will depend on how many of those items you mention are to run at the same time. No problems with the microwave being plugged in as that is only the controls and maybe a light. Not many watts used there!
But if you want to use the microwave and a hair drier at the SAME time, you are likely to get well past the 2000 watt limit the inverter can handle! It is a trick of adding up how much power/ watts each item used at the same time and does it get pasted 2000!

But I suspect there will be no need to add a different circuit for the inverter power. When you plug in to generator or chore power, you can run pretty much everything in the tailer at the same time and then when you are not plugged in the inverter takes over(assuming my idea of internal switch is right). But on inverter, you are then limited to the 2000 watt!
But the inverter is something that works pretty heavy on lead acid batteries and drains them pretty quickly! Heating things like coffee pot, microwave, or motors like the furnace will drop the batteries pretty quick.
The question can become very much a personal thing. Do you want to go out with no electrical for a full weekend or do you want to go some use of the inverter but when really wanting power, start the generator to use the BIG power and add some back to the batteries for later inverter use?
One problem with the generator to recharge batteries is that it takes HOURS!
You may have experience with putting a charger on a car and leaving it overnight to start the next day? It is a slow chemical reaction that can take way too much for some users!
But it is a personal use thing to consider and that get me around to the transfer switch and why you may want it to transfer from shore power to generator!
You may have good reasons for that idea. But for my use, I actually like the "manual transfer" as I have little desire to add to the complex setup when it means so little to me to move the plug! Simple thinking as that is the way all my RV have been and never found the auto transfer idea to fit for my uses!

Just my thinking but I value simple when many want more features, so I'll let them add their ideas!
Welcome to the group and you are starting off very well with trying to collect the info BEFORE buying in too far!
One of the problems is how many different ways we can go!

 

[Elqueso2]

I might throw in some ideas of what some of the items mention do and some of the limits.
The one big limit is how much power the inverter can make from the batteries and for how long.
That means the batteries go down way too quick if we use too much power OR the inverter is not big enough to handle several of the loads mentioned at the same time. I don't see need for a transfer switch on the inverter because I "think" the On-Grid Transfer Switch means it will switch between battery use or shore power / cord use as a built in feature!
Do some checking before trusting that as the term is a little different than I've seen. I think that is right but never fully trust any info from the internet without checking!

Part of the decision on which inverter and battery combo works best will depend on how many of those items you mention are to run at the same time. No problems with the microwave being plugged in as that is only the controls and maybe a light. Not many watts used there!
But if you want to use the microwave and a hair drier at the SAME time, you are likely to get well past the 2000 watt limit the inverter can handle! It is a trick of adding up how much power/ watts each item used at the same time and does it get pasted 2000!

But I suspect there will be no need to add a different circuit for the inverter power. When you plug in to generator or chore power, you can run pretty much everything in the tailer at the same time and then when you are not plugged in the inverter takes over(assuming my idea of internal switch is right). But on inverter, you are then limited to the 2000 watt!
But the inverter is something that works pretty heavy on lead acid batteries and drains them pretty quickly! Heating things like coffee pot, microwave, or motors like the furnace will drop the batteries pretty quick.
The question can become very much a personal thing. Do you want to go out with no electrical for a full weekend or do you want to go some use of the inverter but when really wanting power, start the generator to use the BIG power and add some back to the batteries for later inverter use?
One problem with the generator to recharge batteries is that it takes HOURS!
You may have experience with putting a charger on a car and leaving it overnight to start the next day? It is a slow chemical reaction that can take way too much for some users!
But it is a personal use thing to consider and that get me around to the transfer switch and why you may want it to transfer from shore power to generator!
You may have good reasons for that idea. But for my use, I actually like the "manual transfer" as I have little desire to add to the complex setup when it means so little to me to move the plug! Simple thinking as that is the way all my RV have been and never found the auto transfer idea to fit for my uses!

Just my thinking but I value simple when many want more features, so I'll let them add their ideas!
Welcome to the group and you are starting off very well with trying to collect the info BEFORE buying in too far!
One of the problems is how many different ways we can go!

Thank you for getting back to me. The last few trips I thought to myself, it sure would be nice not to fire up the Gen to make coffee. I picture mainly using the inverter for mornings and watching TV and movies in the evening. No hair dryers or heaters in our future so not too worried about going over 2000 watts. Granted the fan from the furance probablly draws from the batteries (When not on shore power) and haven't monitored that yet.

If we need the Microwave or vacuum, I'll fire up the Gen. Was thinking of going a bit bigger with the inverter since I will be going to Solar in the near future. Reaching into that small power compartment and pluging the coach pwer plug either in the Gen connector or the external power cord (an internal connector for the Hughes Surge Protector) is a pain. Thinking of wiring in a transfer switch just or that. I would have to install it in the compartment next to the Power Compartment. The Inverter with built in transfer switch is just that. When shore power is present it looks like they shut the inverter's output power off. The Noco battery tenders work well and charge up pretty fast. I'm figuring I won't know a lot until I have the inverter installed and take a few trips to see how we do..... Just getting suggestions and advise before pulling the trigger.... Thanks again!

 

[creativepart]

Here's the hard truth.

With two LA batteries you can't do what you want to do. Here's the thing, the microwave, Keurig and toaster oven all use 1500 to 2000w of power each. So, lets say you put a 2000w inverter in your RV. That sounds right doesn't it, to run those 1500 to 2000w devices?

Yeah, it "Sounds" right but here's the thing. When the high load device wants to get inverted power from your batteries it will dump a huge load on the batteries and even if fully charged the voltage will SAG big time. And your inverter will freak out and turn off to protect itself and your batteries.

How do I know? I had OEM 400 amp hours of AGM batteries in my rig with a solid 2000w Magnum inverter. Sometimes I could run the microwave for 30 secs before the Low Voltage Cutoff shut the party down as the huge batteries sagged to 11.7 volts and below.

We just learned to start the genny whenever using the Microwave or Toaster Oven. I didn't try the Keurig but I"m sure it would be the same.

Three years ago, I replaced the AGMs with 400+ amp hours of Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries. These can handle big loads better and don't see as much voltage sag, so we can run these appliances for a short period of time - up to 3-min on inverted power. So, heating something up isn't an issue and we don't have to use the gen for quick lunch stops in the RV.

Even if you get a bigger inverter you'll still have this issue. You need more current from more batteries that are more powerful then Lead Acid.

Currently, I have one Epoch Essentials 460ah LFP battery and we just returned from a month-long trip to Arizona. It works well for short durations but big draws over time still do take a toll on the battery's state of charge. It wouldn't be possible at all with my old AGMs. So, things are better over all.

Switching to LFP batteries is a wonderful plus in many ways. They can sit for long periods without loosing charge. They can be drawn much further down without damage and best of all, unlike LA batteries they recharge super fast.

You will need to make other changes to your rig. LFP batteries have different charging profiles and you'll need to accommodate them with a LFP capable Converter/Charger and figure out how to charge them when driving without burning up your alternator.

Good Luck!

 

[Morich]

Okay, that is what I hear and what I think is always going to be true is that we each need to know how deep the water before we wade in!
I've never gotten into the inverter thing for RV as we kind of got used to NOT having electricity for camping!
We found that when we were making the choices, we felt fine with going the lower tech way instead of going the easier electrical using way!
So I see nothing wrong with any of the methods that work for each person and that is very likely to change after a few years!
My wife and I both grew up when things that we now consider "reguired" were not even available. No electricity, no propane, and no natural gas!
So by the time we got around to not wanting to go to the lake where we did not have those conveniences, we were fully trained to go without!

We have the Keurig , etc. here at the house and we are now finding it handy for a breakfast cup but when we take the grandkids to the lake, we have the old coffee pot and set it by the fire!
We don't really feel like we are camping if we are inside!

That's where we each have to choose for the current time we are passing through!
We will all be different folks ten years from now, so try to stay flexible and adapt as needed!

 

[Elqueso2]

Here's the hard truth.

With two LA batteries you can't do what you want to do. Here's the thing, the microwave, Keurig and toaster oven all use 1500 to 2000w of power each. So, lets say you put a 2000w inverter in your RV. That sounds right doesn't it, to run those 1500 to 2000w devices?

Yeah, it "Sounds" right but here's the thing. When the high load device wants to get inverted power from your batteries it will dump a huge load on the batteries and even if fully charged the voltage will SAG big time. And your inverter will freak out and turn off to protect itself and your batteries.

How do I know? I had OEM 400 amp hours of AGM batteries in my rig with a solid 2000w Magnum inverter. Sometimes I could run the microwave for 30 secs before the Low Voltage Cutoff shut the party down as the huge batteries sagged to 11.7 volts and below.

We just learned to start the genny whenever using the Microwave or Toaster Oven. I didn't try the Keurig but I"m sure it would be the same.

Three years ago, I replaced the AGMs with 400+ amp hours of Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries. These can handle big loads better and don't see as much voltage sag, so we can run these appliances for a short period of time - up to 3-min on inverted power. So, heating something up isn't an issue and we don't have to use the gen for quick lunch stops in the RV.

Even if you get a bigger inverter you'll still have this issue. You need more current from more batteries that are more powerful then Lead Acid.

Currently, I have one Epoch Essentials 460ah LFP battery and we just returned from a month-long trip to Arizona. It works well for short durations but big draws over time still do take a toll on the battery's state of charge. It wouldn't be possible at all with my old AGMs. So, things are better over all.

Switching to LFP batteries is a wonderful plus in many ways. They can sit for long periods without loosing charge. They can be drawn much further down without damage and best of all, unlike LA batteries they recharge super fast.

You will need to make other changes to your rig. LFP batteries have different charging profiles and you'll need to accommodate them with a LFP capable Converter/Charger and figure out how to charge them when driving without burning up your alternator.

Good Luck![/QUOTE
Thank you for getting back to me and my mouth dropped open at the cost of that battery. I understand what you are saying and you get what you pay for. To be honest the only things I was really worried about was my laptop, TV and Directv receiver. The TV and Receiver together draw no more than 100 watts and my Laptop is minimal to. I am going to change out the batteries when they die. I planned on in stalling solar next. I'm thinking maybe for now go with a lower rated inverter like a 1500 and run the gen when I really need it for everything else. I have a cast on my right hand and struggling to type..... I'm thinking that the transfer switch for the Gen and shore is the way to go.

Question; Does you inverter have a transfer switch or do you just turn it on when needed. Also is it tied in before your breaker panel?