Jacks Down light is On with all jacks Up

[S.Rodimus]

Well, the saga continues (from my previous post....

We bought our RV in October. Haven't taken any trips with it yet, as it's been winter and we've just been working on learning all the things and fixing small bits and pieces here and there.

Previously, we thought the only issue with our HWH Computer Controlled Leveling System was that the "Jacks Down" indicator light on the dashboard had to be repaired, because it was dangling behind the console where we couldn't really see it. (We also discovered in that process that there was an alarm that was apparently removed by the prior owners.) While we are happy to not have the alarm and didn't install a new one, we did have our mechanic fix the light into its proper position so it's useful again. Nice.

"Auto Level" has always seemed to work correctly. But when and how the 4 red jack indicator lights on the Control Panel turned off and the "Travel Mode" light turned on, before today, always felt a little wonky. It never worked perfectly, and seemed to take a couple extra button pushes or waiting for the system to timeout to get everything to be right. Plus there was one red jack indicator light on the Control Panel that never illuminated at all.

Today, though -- the first time we "Auto Stored" the jacks after it came home from the mechanic fixed the dashboard light -- it all got worse. The jacks themselves still move up and down seemingly with no issue, however, the dashboard "Jacks Down" light simply won't turn off, even after waiting the full 30 minutes after which the owner's manual says the system will reset. And there's one red light illuminated on the Control Panel indicating one jack down (though they all visually appear to be fully up). None of this changes even after using the Up and Down arrows to try to independently move the jacks up more. So it seems the system thinks at least one of the jacks is still down, even though they're all actually up.

Here is a photo of what our Control Panel looks like right now. The light that I circled in blue never lights up even when that jack is for sure down on the ground. And the light that I crossed out in red just blinks forever, indicating that the system thinks it's still in the process of pulling jacks up....even after 30+ minutes.


What do y'all think is going on here? Is there something wrong with the sensors and/or there is a hydraulic issue preventing one of the jacks from fully retracting? Or is it something else like a programming glitch?

(We have feelers out to the dealership, who promised us that all systems would be in perfect working order upon delivery -- because this one, after months of battling with it, we now know never was. )

 

[creativepart]

Some leveling systems have a pin at the top of each Jack and when the Jack is up it contacts the pin and this notifies the controller that all the jacks have fully retracted. The pin can get bent and loose contact or the associated switch can fail and the controller thinks one Jack is till extended.

I don’t know if you have this kind of system or not, but it would be worth checking out.

 

[Morich]

You may need to read the manual to understand what each light is telling you.
It also sounds like the dealers tech folks need to read that same manual as what it is doing is just showing there is a defect!
You have a blinking light that tells you the system is still trying to retract.
What is causing that is pretty obvious when you have a light that you circled that is telling you that jack is down!
Doesn't it then make sense that the system would think it still needed to retract if a jack is still down?
From there it needs a look at why it thinks the jack is down! Even a Camping World tech should be able to figure this one! But they have to read the book first!

What you bought is an obvious reason for the last owner to trade it in! They had trouble with the jacks, so they hid the light and disabled the alarm and sold it to the dealer. The dealer then did NOTHING to fix the obvious problems and sold it to you!

If it's in writing that things will be fixed, maybe it's time to get legal and go for money back! They shows little signs they willl ever get it fixed!

 

[S.Rodimus]

You may need to read the manual to understand what each light is telling you.
It also sounds like the dealers tech folks need to read that same manual as what it is doing is just showing there is a defect!
You have a blinking light that tells you the system is still trying to retract.
What is causing that is pretty obvious when you have a light that you circled that is telling you that jack is down!
Doesn't it then make sense that the system would think it still needed to retract if a jack is still down?
From there it needs a look at why it thinks the jack is down! Even a Camping World tech should be able to figure this one! But they have to read the book first!

What you bought is an obvious reason for the last owner to trade it in! They had trouble with the jacks, so they hid the light and disabled the alarm and sold it to the dealer. The dealer then did NOTHING to fix the obvious problems and sold it to you!

If it's in writing that things will be fixed, maybe it's time to get legal and go for money back! They shows little signs they willl ever get it fixed!

Thanks, @Morich! To be clear, the circled light on my photo never illuminates, even when that jack is definitely (by visual confirmation) all the way down. It's the top-right one that I marked red that is on (even though that jack -- and in fact all jacks - are upon visual confirmation assuredly UP). And yes, the blinking light means the system is still trying to raise something or at least thinks something hasn't triggered its sensor yet.

We've read the manual and Googled the **** out of all of this -- and now know for sure that the person at the dealership who "taught" us how to use the system either lied or didn't know what he was talking about. The legs have always gone up and down now problem, and apparently he thought (or wanted us to think) that's all that matters.

We do have a call into the dealership and are waiting to hear back, and are certainly considering legal action if we have to get it repaired elsewhere and the dealership doesn't cover the cost.

In the meantime, what are people's thoughts on safety of still driving/using the RV generally if these lights won't turn off but we can see visually for sure that all jacks are completely up? Should we disconnect power to the system to ensure the system doesn't suddenly turn on and deploy jacks (you know, since the dashboard light is now always on so wouldn't be useful as any kind of warning right now)? But if we disconnect power, won't we then also not be able to extend our slideout?

 

[Morich]

Ok, I did not read and follow the question right. Probably the same answer but not the correct lights!
The controls think one jack is not up yet and keeps trying. So there needs to be a check of what and why that jack shows not up.
It could be just an adjustment of something like the sensor/switch being just a little off or maybe the jack is 1/8 inch not fully stored?
From there it may depend on how you want to go. If willing/able and have a couple boards around, I might look at laying a stack of boards in a stack to may a place to place a longer board to pry up on that one jack!
You should not have to do that but sometimes NOT taking it in is easier than taking it! If the light goes out when you pry the jack up a 1/4 inch or any it will move, that might tell you it is a switch/sensor problem and might need adjusted some way. Maybe help to sort if it is the jack not actually going up, sensing it not up wrong or some part in the electronics of the control head?
Maybe it tells you nothing, so I'll let you decide if that is good, bad or silly!

On using the RV? I think you are reasonably safe to use it before fixed but might suggest some care. Do you know of a fuse that feeds the jacks and not too hard to get to and remove, then put back when you want to move slides or actually use the jacks?

But if that is not handy, I still think you are safe enough to drive! One thing that makes me lean that way is the park break has to be on if I'm correct? check that but I think you have to have the brake on to use either slide or jacks. That means one would have to have a faulty park brake saying it was on when running down the road as well as something hitting the jack control buttons in the right order to get things to move.

I might favor using it but if driving very far, stop and just look under to see that none of the jacks are sneaking down?

Meanwhile, when trying to sort the right answer on that, I came across some info on the jack/slide wiring that you might want to peek at, just as info?
https://www.winnebago.com/Files/Files/Winnebago/Resources/Diagram/2007/07_726a_wire_156847.pdf
Looks like pages 1,2,3 for Ford chassis and 3,4,5 for Chevy but it shows how the park brake wiring gets tied together.
It looks like the jack wiring ties into the existing/ normal park brake switch. Do you have a dash light that shows when the park brake is on as well as the added one for the jacks?
That normal truck alarm light for the park brake uses the same switch for the jacks alarm, so if the normal track alarm doesn't come on, that may be fine to tell you to ignore the other alarms that come with the jacks system?
Top left of sheet 1 for Ford or sheet 4 for chevy for how they tapped into existing wires?

 

[S.Rodimus]

But if that is not handy, I still think you are safe enough to drive! One thing that makes me lean that way is the park break has to be on if I'm correct? check that but I think you have to have the brake on to use either slide or jacks. That means one would have to have a faulty park brake saying it was on when running down the road as well as something hitting the jack control buttons in the right order to get things to move.

Thank you, again @Morich! I'm honestly not sure if the park brake has to be on for the leveling system to function, though it does have a light on the Control Panel that (so far, correctly) lights up when the park brake is on. My worry there is if there's something wrong computer-wise with the Control Panel, maybe it might get into some sort of status where it thinks the park brake is on when it is in fact not.

I will check tonight if the system will function at all with the park brake off, i.e. whether the park brake indicator light on the Control Panel is simply informational versus an actual safety feature that disables the system with the brake off.

Anyways, I think all of this either an issue with a solenoid, a valve, or the magnetic indicator sensor/switch on the jack itself -- or maybe the Control Panel simply needs replacing. We are working through diagnostics and also simultaneously in contact with the dealership regarding their responsibility.

 

[S.Rodimus]

Went home last night, turned the RV on to do some testing and tinkering with this system, and lo and behold.... the dashboard Master Warning Light was off and the green Travel Mode light was illuminated on the Control Panel. Perhaps some sort of hydraulic fluid contraction with overnight cold weather causing the low jack to finally get itself all the way up, who knows.

Anyways, I took photos this morning of where the jacks currently sit. The front ones appear to be lower out of their shafts than the rear ones, but otherwise generally equal to each other. Is this how they should be, especially compared to the rear ones that are higher up into their shafts?

We're still making plans for doing some diagnostics on our own (following HWH's handy dandy online instructions), as well as consulting a professional because even if we're correct that there are some faulty magnetic switches on top of one or more jacks, I'm not sure we can physically access that area without the rig up on a lift.

Would love to hear what you all think of these here photos? Thank you again, superbly, in advance!

 

[Morich]

Ready for some hammer head logic based on no experience with the jacks with springs? Just some "this is what I'm thinking"?

Just looking, I am pretty sure that type doesn't use hydraulic pressure to lift the jacks but uses the spring pressure to go back up??
So looking at those pictures, does it seem like the front right is quite a bit more rusty than the others? Is the lower end of the cylinder actually a different color? Or am I just looking at shadows?
Maybe the problem is not anything huge or complicated but just one spring is loosing it's tension or snagging in some way before it gets the job done?
I have read about folks changing the springs but I have never had that type and know little about what to expect from them.

So if it is okay now, is it maybe getting warmer or something like that making them change?
If it stops again, is there some logical way you could put pressure on the one that needs to go up further? Got an old floor jack, etc. that you could press it up that way instead of the springs alone?

From the little I know about that sort, I think the pressure on the fluid is released and then it is on the springs to draw them up, so a weak spring might be the problem?
If it is just a tiny difference keeping the light from working right, would doing something to press the jack a tiny bit further tell you something important?

Not the controls, not wiring or hydraulicas but just a funky spring?

 

[S.Rodimus]

Just looking, I am pretty sure that type doesn't use hydraulic pressure to lift the jacks but uses the spring pressure to go back up??

Yes, I believe this system uses the springs to lift the jacks back up after the hydraulic pressure is released. But I was thinking that if for some reason all of the hydraulic fluid hadn't been properly released, perhaps the cold weather then allowed the little bit that was left in the system to keep the spring from completely raising the jack, and when it got cold/fluid contracted, maybe the spring was then able to finish retracting. ::shrug::

So looking at those pictures, does it seem like the front right is quite a bit more rusty than the others? Is the lower end of the cylinder actually a different color? Or am I just looking at shadows?

This front right jack has a silver identification sticker on the bottom, the front left one doesn't. That's the color difference you're seeing.

Maybe the problem is not anything huge or complicated but just one spring is loosing it's tension or snagging in some way before it gets the job done? ... If it is just a tiny difference keeping the light from working right, would doing something to press the jack a tiny bit further tell you something important?
Not the controls, not wiring or hydraulicas but just a funky spring?

Maybe! That's one of the things I plan to test soon.

But we do still have another (rear left) jack down light that never illuminates, even when that jack is fully down -- so even if this (front right) one is just a weak spring issue, that other (rear left) one likely has a faulty magnetic switch; or the Control Panel has broken lights and needs replacing.

 

[Morich]

Yes, it gives you several things to think about! Progress comes in little spurts at times, so maybe getting one thing is getting SOMETHING done?

I'm guessing but would expect the light not coming on would be and LED? Are the screws in the panel holding the whole thing mounted and do they go through a thin plastic like layer on the front? Or can you feel it move around a little bit if you press on the face? I have seen those with just a thin plastic cover which bent a little bit to let tabs on the edges go back enough to pop into slots around the edges.
Thinking, if it is a plastic cover, maybe you can find and edge to gently pry it out of where it is snapped in?
That might let you look at whether it is LED or a bulb. If a bulb, maybe it shows dark like burned out?
Some of the small stuff that no book ever tells you about?

Reason I know or think about it being a cover is that I had to get one off the dash and there was no way until I found the faceplate snapped off and the screws were under it!
But I see screws, so maybe the screws hold a face plate/cover and the rest, too?

Sometimes RV seem to be built so different that it's kind of like an Easter egg hunt! You have to look under every little bush to find things, even if you don't think anybody would ever hide it there!

 

[RayIN]

First, ID your leveling system, this will help: http://wanderlodgegurus.com/database/House/HWH/HWH%20Leveling%20System%20Identificaiton.pdf
What you describe sounds like air in the system.

Take a moment to check the oil leveling system reservoir. It takes Dextron III, and the level should be marked on a dipstick in the cap on the reservoir, or within 1" of the top.
If the level is low, fill to the full mark when the jacks are retracted, then cycle the jacks and recheck oil level. BTW, if the oil is not normal colored, it should be drained and replaced. Dextron III is red, the HWH oil is clear. DO NOT add hydraulic jack oil or brake fluid, it will ruin the seals in everything.

Once you have the model # of your leveling system it's easy to download the service manual, with troubleshooting section, from the web. I suspect the oil level is low, since all 4 lights were blinking when fully-retracted.

 

[S.Rodimus]

I suspect the oil level is low, since all 4 lights were blinking when fully-retracted.

Thank you, but I never said all four lights were on or blinking at the same time.

I got in touch with HWH yesterday, who responded faster than ever expected and have been exceptionally helpful so far, giving me not only a good and confident idea of what the problem is, but clear guidance on how to fix it. We have an ordered list of tasks and tests to try -- and will be beginning that process shortly.

My biggest worry at this point, really, is that we won't physically be able to reach the area needed to perform the tests and do the repair work -- so we may need to enlist our local mechanic who can get the rig up on the lift.

I wish I could recount to y'all some of the hilariously ridiculous statements the dealership made to us this week relating to their promise to check and repair all systems prior to delivery and their now refusal to take any responsibility -- but who's got the energy for that? Very disappointing and angering in the end, but hey -- at least we're getting to deeply learn All. The. Things about our RV....which will be better for us in the long run.

 

[spierce617]

When was the last time that you used WD-40 on the jacks when they were down. There is a plastic washer at the top of the ram that needs to be oiled once in awhile. It looks like you have the newer springs that are tapered. I also attached a file that explains how to spray down the jack rods. Hope this helps.

 

[S.Rodimus]

When was the last time that you used WD-40 on the jacks when they were down. There is a plastic washer at the top of the ram that needs to be oiled once in awhile. It looks like you have the newer springs that are tapered. I also attached a file that explains how to spray down the jack rods. Hope this helps.

Heh, we've never lubricated the jacks. We've only had the RV since October, so we've just been doing what work we can on it through cold winter months.

Your suggestions and docs are helpful -- thank you!

We have a path forward with some steps to follow....just need time to actually do it.

I will update here with anything new and/or when we find the problem/solution.

 

[Cymbo]

Jackstown light

I just purchased a 2016 Winnebago Itasca with the same problem. Two things were going on with mine that went back to the dealer five times and they couldn’t figure it out. One check the fluid in your reservoir on the pump the level needs to be checked with Jack up, there’s a float switch in there that measure the level of fluid to tell you the jacks are up or down. Mine was low, giving me that same warning also when I leave the trailer and kill the disconnect power switches at the door and return it scrambles the Jack system and I have to fiddle with it a few times to get it to reset and then it’s OK , I believe there’s a constant wire or a ground issue when the power is removed from the unit that it Hass to go back and relearn something still working on that one but the solution to my problem was low hydraulic fluid

 

[HouseofFaith]

Lack of Spring Tension

Not sure what the current problem is after you’ve taken it in to get work on, but I had a similar issue with my previous 2005 Adventurer—spring were too worn. But it didn’t stop there, Even with new springs I ended up buying 4 rebuilt jacks from the manufacturer—I highly recommend getting certified manufacturer rebuilt jacks than having the jacks rebuilt at an hydraulics shop if you want a solution that lasts.

Lastly, it’s DIY medium level work, which will probably take you 30 - 45 minutes per axle.