Inverter 30 a breaker

[BradC-WO]

We have been full time since 2012 so have seen a lot of issues. We are staying in cold temperatures for an extended period and will be in Denver area until early February. Although we have two propane furnaces to supplement our heat pump we also use a couple space heaters, 1500 w each and all the other normal coach draws on our 50amp service. We have a 2000 w Dimensions inverter charger, inverter turned off charger ok, even with space heaters off , when trying to use the microwave convection oven the 30a output breaker pops out on the inverter. This has happened over the years when we had to much plugged in and used the toaster. It is now annoying and the RV repair guy says probably the 30a breaker on the inverter is weak and should replace that before buying a new inverter. We rarely use the inverter. He also said we could consider wiring around that breaker if we do not care about the inverter. Anyone with experience on this issue?

 

[imnprsd]

I'm going to guess you have some loose wire connections in your transfer switch (or elsewhere) that is putting some added heat/resistance on your L1 (120V) or your L2 (120V) or your Neutral (return) power line.

The circuit breaker is only monitoring the "hot" side, and it's easy and cheap to replace, but if the new one pops too then you know you should look elsewhere.

That Dimensions Inverter is a Quasi-sine type and really quite good. ...And I would never give mine up. I even have a residential refrigerator and I am having no issues with my inverter power there, but going to a PSW-Inverter is an upgrade.

However, if you are on shore power then your inverter is "off" as you say. The Dimensions internal transfer switch (relay passthrough) guarantees that.

The charger side of the Dimensions box is more prone to failure, but you are only using it to charge your house batteries so you can run your lights, right?

You said you have 50A service too, right? ...And you are plugged into 50A service, right? ...I ask, because if you are using 30A shore power then your EMS-620 "shredder board" is also monitoring your power use.

Out of curiosity, how often do you replace your house batteries? ...And what type of RV or 5th Wheel is this power grid being used?

Last but not least, FYI, your Dimensions has temperature probe that is supposed to be hooked up to the "negative" side of the house batteries, and I just replaced mine this summer. (You can still buy these from Sensata-Dimensions direct for $35.) This thermistor can cause your charger side to act-up, but your problem is on the hot side and not inverter related since you are connected to shore power, right?

 

[Morich]

Can you post up the info on what RV you have to include the year, make as in Brave, Journey, etc. and what model you have like 36 y, etc. ? Also if you have it handy, some info on exactly which inverter charger you have will let us look for more exact info on what is most likely happening to trip the breaker. Any history like equipment changes that involve the electrical may be helpful as well. No use chasing a problem we might see on a part that you replaced or upgraded years ago!!

I tend to agree with the RV repair as it does sound like the breaker may have tripped too many times but beyond that, there should be some checking on why it has tripped so often over the years. But I do not agree with wiring around any breaker that trips as it is there to protect us from overheating things like the wires and if we do let the breaker trip to protect us, the next step may be a fire!

In other words there are two things possible, the breaker is weak and tripping when it should not OR there is a wiring problem somewhere that is making too much current flow to trip the breaker.

Before we can do a good job of looking at what the more likely problem might be, we need to know what is working off each branch of the electrical circuits. Currently we don't know which outlets and how many work through the inverter and where you have the heaters plugged in. It might be possible to make it work better with something as simple as plugging the heaters into different outlets or doing some other simple moves to split the load different. That's where a close look at the drawings may tell us a lot.

I do not favor changing out the inverter/ charger until knowing why this one trips as if there is a problem with wiring, the new might just do the same thing after spending a good amount of money!

 

[BradC-WO]

2007 Tour 40 FD. Dimensions WIN 12x20B3R1T, No breakers are tripping at the main or sub panel. We are on 50a service. The pop out 30 a breaker on the inverter is getting weaker it seems. With nothing plugged into wall sockets it will pop out after running the microwave/convection for about 5 mins. In the past it would only pop when a space heater or toaster was used at the same time.

 

[Morich]

Okay, with that info , I have looked at the layout of the wiring and might have some simple testing to let you get more certain of what is happening.
I did a couple little snips of the drawing to make it less mind boggling but how well that works may depend on what you are using to access the internet. If on a PC, you can get a much better look as it is larger, so take a look at this drawing snip and let me know if it is something you can see well enough to read? Try clicking the picture to see if it gets a better view!

What I marked on the first is how the power comes into the main power center on two 50 amp and those feed the 30 amp feeding the inverter power center. We can assume these to be okay as things mostly work. Just info but not needed for right now.

The second picture is the feed from the power center to this inverter panel and this is where it may help to do some testing as it comes in through a switch (on a monitor panel, etc? ) and to a 30 amp which then feeds five 15 amp breakers. You know where these are located?

The third picture is how I see things being fed by the inverter as I marked in different colors. This can get pretty messy so it may fit you better to look at the original drawing here if hard to read or make sense? Maybe it makes sense and my marking just messes with your mind, so your choice!!!
https://www.winnebago.com/Files/Files/Winnebago/Resources/Diagram/2007/07_r40fd_wire_157677.pdf

I am assuming it is the 30 amp at the inverter panel which is tripping? That would make me want to verify that there is not something drawing way too much current out on one of these lines. One way to do that would be to turn off most things by opening all the breakers but one, maybe the microwave and then try the microwave by itself. If the breaker trips, it is either too weak or there is something wrong on the microwave circuit, so I would then turn the microwave breaker off and put a load on the other circuits like one of the heater that will draw something like 12 amps if they are 1500 watt heaters. Two 1500 watt heater combined should not be enough (24 amp?) to trip the 30 amp if it is not weak! Two heaters and a microwave 24 plus 10+ is likely to be a problem if all at one time.

I suggest playing with turning things on, loading that circuit and then let it set for a bit to see if it trips too easy. Theory says that if there is a wiring problem, it should only be on one circuit so swapping around tells you if that is true and which one.
I might guess that the breaker IS weak but and the pro way to test would be to use a meter to test amps on each circuit but that gets into buying tools that most of us don't use often enough to warrant buying.

 

[RVita]

120v outlets in cabin not working

I am new to WIT. We are on our first real trip with the new 2020 Winnebago Vita 24P. While on shore power and using a hair dryer on the outlet in the bathroom, evidently the 120 volt circuit breaker or GFCI tripped but will not reset and now none of the 120v outlets function inside. However the TV and microwave/oven work. The invert appears to be working as the green light is on. I would appreciate any tips or ideas on how to restore power to the outlets

 

[BradC-WO]

Thank you very much Richard. I tested as you suggested and after a few minutes with microwave only the 30 on the inverter tripped then with just the outlets on and 2 space heaters only it tripped. Pretty sure it must be the pop up 30 breaker on the inverter is weak. I will try and locate one on Monday. Thanks again for your help!

 

[Morich]

Sounds right and it seems to be weak. One point on locating one might be to check if it is something that a regular electrical place or big box might have as a handier and often cheaper than an RV specific item.
If you can get it out and take it to compare, it may help as different brands may fit, on the other hand, there are times when just saying "fix it" works good , too!

 

[BradC-WO]

I took the cover off

See attached picture of the breaker. Dimensions has not returned my calls. I have not had luck finding this on the internet probably because I do not have the complete part number. Any suggestions. Wonder if I could somehow wire around the breaker and disconnect the inverter which we do not use.

 

[Morich]

Humm? I better be careful on suggestions!
First some questions. Is this an item that normally fits in some type hole on the inverter itself, not the 30 amp from the inverter breaker panel?
What brings the questions is that the drawings don't always show the full story on some things like this as the drawing shows it as a switch on the inverter with normally open or normally closed contacts, depending on which way it is thrown or connected and that makes it look more like a simple on/off switch!
But that doesn't make sense as an inverter only changes DC to make AC or passes AC through when plugged into power. So I went looking for what does the 12Volt DC for batteries and lights, fans, pumps that we know you must have.

That brings up what happens when you take the switch or breaker out and leave a hole in the circuit? I'm assuming the AC outlets, etc are dead but what about the 12VDC stuff like lights? are they currently running on the batteries and those are getting weaker---or is there more to this "inverter like a second set of switches or some way it is still getting AC in to make DC to charge the batteries?

But if I am right that this has to be complete to pass power to charge batteries, that makes it more difficult .
Are the coach batteries getting charged or just setting and running down while this item is not in the circuit? If all else is still okay and not needed to keep the 12VDC stuff going, just leaving it tripped may be okay but does that mean the shore power is not passed through and all the AC is out?

 

[BradC-WO]

This pop out breaker is 30a output breaker on front of the inverter. When it pops out all receptacles in the coach are dead. Battery charge and inverter work fine. The fireplace and heat pump are separate from this and continue to function.

 

[Morich]

That is possible--- in theory, at least but depends on where and how things are located.
We do want to keep the safety side in mind and that seems covered in your case.

Do some thinking on your end as I am only looking at drawings and that may not be the whole story but this is what I see. At the main load center there is a 30 amp breaker to protect only the inverter and things on down the line. It shows a 10 gauge wire from the main load to the inverter switch/breaker and then a 10-2 going to the inverter load panel. Do consider if that is what you actually have!

But if there is a 30 amp before as well as a 30 amp after the faulty one, taking this item out and tying the tow wires together would not be a hazard. The one which is faulty seems likely to be a "standard" item when they build the inverter charger and may assume there is not more safety breakers built in the line.

If this were the normal house and we did not have several breakers of the same size feeding each other, this would be totally dangerous to remove a breaker and wire around it but in this case, we see three breakers of the same size, leaving at least one to seem redundant.

If you are near any place to get a breaker, it doesn't have to be the exact same as Carling does make 28,000 plus different items and lots of the model numbers are just to list different small items like the color or shape of the button or handle but the breaker, etc. is the same.

If you could walk it into a store and let them look for one of the same size and shape to fir where you want to place it, the other points that change the model number are pretty common. You want to get one that is rated for at least 110AC and 30 amps. 240 volts and 30 amps is okay but not something rated 24 volts or a different amperage.

Play safe and don't get hurt but generally I do see taking this out will still be safe. If you connect the wires together make sure they are solid and not moving around to make arcing and make sure they are tucked away so someone doesn't get contact with them at some time in the future.

 

[BradC-WO]

Inverter repair followup

I talked with Dimensions tech support and they told me they no longer support my inverter however there is nothing special about the 30a output breaker. They said I could find one online. He said that after tripping numerous times over the years it is probably weak. I found one on Amazon. Philmore 30 Amp Push Button Circuit Breaker 32V DC or 250V AC ; B7030
Sold by BIGFLY, it took about 5 minutes to install and now everything is working fine. Richard, Thank you for all your help. We have been fulltime since 2012 and this coach has held up very well. Even though I am pretty handy with repairs it is always good to have outside input before moving ahead. Thanks again.

 

[Morich]

Thanks for the feedback. I'm always willing to try to help but that also often gets into a bit of guessing which is kind of hard if we can't see things. Recommending a specific breaker is nice and would be handy for the guy needing it but then getting one ordered and shipping and finding the thing is a 1/4 inch too long is not helpful or nice!!
I do that to myself every once in a while but I try to avoid sticking the neck out if it is somebody else's neck.
Enjoy the new features of the old RV. You don't happen to have an old knee that I could pop into my old body???