HWH leveling jack stuck in soft ground on 2002 Chieftain 36

[Timo1]

So I got my 2002 chieftain 36ft stuck in some soft ground after some heavy rain. I waited a week for it to dry out and was using the jacks to lift the wheels up to put done boards under them. The front right jack base plate popped off the cylinder when the board under it sank and tilted in the grass. I've dug out around the cylinder and placed a floor jack under it. I stayed the rv up and hit the store button and tried to jack the cylinder up, but it won't move. The cylinder doesn't look bent or damaged in anyway. Has any one had a similar issue. Thanks in advance.

 

[Morich]

Couple questions first as there are several different "series" and different brands of jacks out there. I feel like you likely have HWH brand jacks but that is step one to finding the best manual to reffer to for the correct troubleshooting ideas.
When looking at the jacks, do you see big springs on each side of each jack? Those are what lift/fold one type of jack or some act to lift the inner part back.
Can you get some pictures of the controls panel as one part and also a picture of one of the jacks will help to sort what you have?
If the type with springs, it may be a case of them getting too weak to pull it up.
If not springs, it sounds like something is wrong with the hydraulic setup. Understand that it may have simply quit at the same time and not really much to do with the jack stuck in the ground as the hydraulic that is strong enough to lift the RV, will have no trouble pulling the jack out of the mud, even if iced down!
The type without springs, uses hydraulic to both extend and retract and it takes a lot of muscle to keep it from going back up if the hydraulic valves/solenoids are working correctly.
If it was stuck hard, it may have simply blown a fuse? But to get to the best info, there are some basic things to sort which series jack you have.

 

[Timo1]

Yes it has the 2 springs, but there are hook to the base plate which is no longer under the cylinder. So they are no help. I've had to use a pry bar to lift the rear jacks back up when the spring were too weak. So I know it doesn't take much pressure to raise the jacks. I'm wonder if I over extended the jack and it some how locked in position.

 

[Morich]

I have not used the types with springs to help return but it was my thought that the springs were needed! If they are no longer attached, does that mean no return on the jacks? Are they straight acting or kick up style?
I know folks who have changed out springs when they no longer worked and I have assumed, without actually knowing that they were required to raise the jacks.
Maybe somebody with more experience/knowledge of that type will be along in a bit?

 

[RayIN]

Cannot over-extend the hyd. cylinders. Are you sure the solenoids were manually opened to allow hyd fluid to return to the reservoir, or the store button was lighted?

Rich, springs are required for single-action cylinders to retract, but it sounds like he didn't open the solenoids to allow fluid to return to the reservoir while attempting to pry the cylinder back up.

 

[be happy]

I have used the HWH customer service tech support in the past for getting help with my slide. They are great folks seeming there to really help I would give them a call.

HWH Leveling Systems

With that said I have had an issue with one of my rear jacks w/springs not wanting to retract. I used the manual extend and retract button. I first pushed the extend button while another person watch to see what happened I then pushed the retract button. I did have to help the jack to up but it did go up. You might also try and spray a good lubricant on the exposed jack rams. I use the 3in1 product for slide outs on my jack rams to help with the retraction process.

Good Luck

 

[HiBanky]

You probably have an HWH 310 leveling system. A call to the manufacture would be a good first step, (563 946 6002), but while you are waiting for a call back, there are a couple of things you can check.

If one jack will not retract with the control panel in store mode and the help of a floor jack under it, that solenoid valve is not opening. This can be a bad solenoid valve, a bad connector, or just a blown fuse.

First, locate the HWH pump, valve, and manifold assemble. Using the manual locate the solenoid valve associated with the stuck jack. Open the valve manually by turning the "T" handle counterclockwise until you hear or feel the fluid passing thru the valve. This may take more than four turns, but do not turn it until it stops.

If the jack comes up with the help of the floor jack or with springs attached, look for a blown fuse on the control box or a bad wire connector. There are four 10amp fuses on the outside of the box, one for each jack.

If replacing the fuse or fixing connectors doesn't help, you could have a bad solenoid valve and that can be repaired or replaced.

These are just a few things to check, There could many other possible causes.

See this earlier thread on the subject. LINK

 

[Cooperhawk]

I've had jack pads stuck in the mud after the CG had a water leak. The springs just weren't strong enough to pull them out and I had to dig them free.

 

[3MyaNwjDRV-RVLSSOUID-1625]

Unfortunately been there and done that. If foot is off, you will Have to turn on retract the jack while applying pressure with shovel or hoe to get jack back up. Place it under the cylinder and put foot back on after the jack is up. I keep a hoe in basement for this very reason as I have had this happen more than once, especially if you are in one place for a while.

 

[RayIN]

This why I always place a wide board under each jack foot, even on blacktop.

 

[3MyaNwjDRV-RVLSSOUID-1625]

I know it’s a lot, but I put 2 2ft 4x4s and a 2 ft 2x4 under each jack. I put them in a plastic tub in Tow vehicle when traveling.

 

[Robitasca]

I have not used the types with springs to help return but it was my thought that the springs were needed! If they are no longer attached, does that mean no return on the jacks? Are they straight acting or kick up style?
I know folks who have changed out springs when they no longer worked and I have assumed, without actually knowing that they were required to raise the jacks.
Maybe somebody with more experience/knowledge of that type will be along in a bit?

In my limited experience, if they have springs, the hydraulics are only to extend. When in retract they just open the circuit and the springs do the retracting.
I had issues and it turned out to be bad shuttle valves, just a piston that opens and closes flowpaths and its normally just the O rings. !

 

[Morich]

Considering the power hydraulic has to move things, adding springs to help the jack go back up would not seem logical if the hydraulic was meant to do the job.
That would leave me thinking two things might be involved. If the springs were too weak would be an obvious idea but also there has to be some solenoid control involved to release the pressure that was holding the jack extended!
Once the pad and springs slip off the jack, I would assume the hydraulic might/ might not be correct to release the pressure but in either case, I would assume extra effort is needed to get the jack back up and reattach the springs and pad.
But it really seems doing it the hard way if we don't look at the manuals that are online when we don't fully understand what we are working on!

 

[cef2lion]

You can manually open the solenoid valves to release pressure to the jack. The newer solenoids have a lever on solenoid end you flip to open and close them. The older ones you use the end of the pump tank cap or the T handle. Pump cap has a bit built in to open and close the valves. Then try and get under the jack and jack it up using some means. I have also cracked the hydraulic line at the jack to test if there is an issue back stream from the jack.

If store mode is on too long you can burn out the solenoids. I learned that on my 2004 Adventurer. Had to buy 4 new solenoids. I had two bad jacks that were very slow retracting. That caused my solenoids to fail. I replaced the jacks and put new springs on all around. Jacks work as they should now. I clean the rams regular and use Q-tips to get up it the area where the cylinder goes into the jack. A lot of gunk collects there. There is also a shuttle valve on the HWH pump that can fail. I put on a new one and kept the old one for a spare.

I got my parts from:

Stuart's RV Leveling - HWH RV Leveling System Replacement Parts

Authentic OEM Parts for HWH RV Leveling Systems IN STOCK

rvleveling.com

They were great to work with and talked to me on the phone when I had issues. Very helpful.

 

[tim myers]

Considering the power hydraulic has to move things, adding springs to help the jack go back up would not seem logical if the hydraulic was meant to do the job.

The HWH system is a push only system, Hydraulic pressure lowers the jacks but when it is time to retract them the valves open and springs pull the jacks back up. I clean mine every spring with WD-40 but by the end of the season the pax side front slows down. I keep a round point shovel in the pass thru bay and use it to help that one jack back into place. With the solenoid open it is pretty easy to move it back to the stored position.

When you push the store button it starts a 20 minute timer to raise the jacks. I have been told by Stuarts that as long as you don't run multiple 20 minute cycles the solenoids should be fine.
Would love to know the circumstances behind "Lions" solenoid failure.

We are always learning aren't we?

 

[cef2lion]

Its been a few years since I replaced the solenoids. I was having issues with one rear and one front retracting slow. Front right was the worst. When I bought my RV in 2010 the dealer had to order and replace the rear right jack.

While having issue with the two slow jacks I think my solenoids went bad using the store mode repeatedly. At the time I didn't know it could over heat and damage the solenoids. When they failed there 4 fuses under the plastic HWH main panel cover blew. In the process of troubleshooting the two jacks I had put in a new shuttle valve with no change. After talking to Stuarts on the phone I ordered two jacks, four solenoids and all new springs. That got the system working and I have use care of the system going forward.

 

[Morich]

Most things that sounds so complex are not all that much if we think of what parts make up the whole. In the case of solenoids, it is complex sounding but much of that is becasue of the name not being one we use often in our normal life. If we call is a "electrically operated valve" we can begin to understand it better? We have apening that is opened or closed by a coil we put power on/off! That leaves a few ways they can fail but none that are brain warping to understand. We have a pump building pressure that the valves control. inside that valve we have parts that open and close with passages where the fluid moves. Those parts open and close when we put change power flowing through a coil on the solenoid valve.
So what could go wrong? Lots of really small simple things! We can break wires and things like that but if we get power to the solinoid, things get simple. The coil has to have good continuity for the power through it and we can test that with a meter. That makes an electromagnet to move the parts, so they need to be in good enough mechanical condition to move. they have to have good enough seals/O-rings to not let the pressure leak out or past. And if we have the type moved by springs, we have to have springs strong enough to do the lifting!
Pretty close to the same as our normal faucet except we do the faucet by hand?

But a point to consider if we have the type with springs may help prevent them sticking in the ground. We had an asphalt drive where we did not want the jacks pushing a hole in the drive, so we spread the pressure out on a 2X 12 we placed under the foot. Given the choice of finding how to get a jack pried back up, I likely would carry a few boards for those occasions when the ground might get too soft!

 

[HiBanky]

It doesn't look like the original poster is going to respond to all of these thoughtful inputs. Unfortunately, this is a common occurrence on this forum and leaves us all wondering if we were able to help at all. That said, I am going to highjack the tread with a situation of my own.

I had a solenoid valve go bad, blowing the fuse which left the left rear jack in the extended position. Releasing the hydraulic pressure by turning the "T" handle allowed the springs to pull the jack back to the up position. The HWH repair shop replaced the "O" rings on the valve core, inspected the suspect solenoid and deemed it operational. Since then, this jack operates perfectly but occasionally will still blow the fuse. It's not difficult to replace the fuse but inconvenient. There is a slight resistance difference between the reconditioned solenoid and the others of .02 ohms. This doesn't seem to be enough to cause the problem but one of you may be able to correct me on this. To minimize the inconvenience, I have installed an auto reset fuse but have not cycled the system enough times to determine if this is a good permanent fix or not.

I would appreciate any advice, and I will do my best to post any results.