Hi Friends What did I miss when “un-winterizing?” 1993 Brave 27RQ

[Winnie the Bago]

Some info to know what you have in plumbing. Most would call it plastic pipe for most part. But plastic has changed with different companies making different types and names. I see Vanguard in one picture!
View attachment 1321074
I like plastic as the name rather than the stuff I can't spell! Maybe PB is good enough?
But if you wanted a fitting from the hardware, telling them it is a plastic compression fitting and what shape will get it done!
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Maybe one of the easier things to work on as the fittings have a nut that can be screwed on and tightened with simple tools. An adjustable wrench is a common one as it adjusts to fit s lots of different sizes. Crescent wrenches were a brand so common lots of people just call them by that name!
To repair/replace, we unscrew the nut and pull the tube out. There is likely to be a rubber thing shaped like a cone. WE put the nut on the tube, slide the rubber gizmo on and stick the end into the fitting and tighten it to compress the rubber to seal.
Main hazard may be that they can unscrew and leak or we can use too much muscle and strip the threads. Tighten until it squeeks!
but they flex and are less likely to break than metal!
The tank is metal and there is a connection at the back but I might not expect the tank to break as it is an odd shape that tends to let ice slide up when it expands, rather than press so hard on the walls it breaks.
Just a guess but think of the way lots of bird baths don't break and the ice pressure goes up instead of out to break?
There is a white plastic looking item right next to the tank? I think that is a type of plastic which is more brittle and I might guess it is cracked?? Check valve which only lets water flow in one direction?
A couple black hoses that may be radiator hoses and those are not at all likely to break.
Also one black item that I think is a cover for a bundle of electrical wires.

Turned on slow and looking for water to tell where and then I'm guessing the repair is not going to need any high tech crimpers or soldering like copper pipe might need!

Be aware that I am GUESSING! It could be the tank but I see no real reason to say that yet?? If he looks at the picture, he can see what he might need. If it is the check valve, the only big thing to know is which way to turn it as water should only go through in one direction and that needs to be correct! They usually have an arrow on them to tell which direction the water goes through!
You want the cold to go IN at the bottom , heat up and come OUT at the top!
But there has been lots of water around there at different times and finding where is going to take some looking!

Keep a towel handy!
Good luck is always nice, too! So I'll wish up a bunch for you!

 

[Winnie the Bago]

Hey Richard
Thanks for the info and good luck wishes!
I will let you know how it goes.
Tian

 

[Winnie the Bago]

Well, y'all won't believe this; I can scarcely believe it myself!
After three days of drying things out, and then waiting on getting someone to assist me, it became clear to me that I was and had been misreading the 'bypass--normal flow valve'; probably resulting in the water left in the water heater that actually was the culprit in the flood!
In order to test out where the flood had originated, we filled the water heater (taking it off bypass--opposite the way I though it was); anyway, as soon as the water heater filled to near capacity, the gushing began anew!! Lo and behold, after pushing aside the little cardboard and foam 'heat retaining packaging',

around the water heater, it was more than obvious! Pictures tell the tale!

 

[Winnie the Bago]

and these...

 

[Morich]

Ouch! Definite leak!
I saw your comment/question in the other posting but thought this might be the better place to pass along some ideas on changing the water heater? I think you will find your situation much nicer than the other person, due to location on the RV. You can get to the back and front of yours!
When you have access to both back and front, you can get to the hoses much better.
Basic ideas of what is needed:
1.Disconnect the water in and out lines
2. There are two black hoses that are black and appear to be rubber type like we might expect for radiator hoses? They go in under the water heater and I don't see any connection to the heater but the only reason I can think of radiator hoses to go nearly that far back into the RV is what is called a Motoraid option on the water heater. Normally radiator hoses only stay upfront near the engine and radiator!
But this Motoraid idea was common for a time and let hot water from the engine run through special places on the water heater to let engine heat transfer that heat to the water inside the water heater. Kind of a pre-heat to let you get to campsites with hot water without using propane! That leaves me guessing that there are two hose connected to the back of the water heater but under the insulation where we can't see them? Disconnect them if they are there!
3. From the front, open the panel and there should be a gas line and valve there to disconnect. Turn the gas of at the propane tank first!
4. There will be a set of controls and some electrical wiring for both the 110AC heater as well as low voltage wiring for controls.
5. Then likely a bunch of screws through the metal around the heater to hold it to the RV side. Lots of screws and lot of sealer that is a mess to scrape off?
Idea is that it is then ready to pull out of the side and replace.


Repair is occasionally a question but if it is a truly old heater, the odds of that being the best move go down a bunch. Welding on aluminum is a special talent and some are good, while others are not! I like to save money but that is one that worries me as it is a special trick!

You have a good setup to get to the back and see what is there as well as room to work. Far better than many RV have!

 

[Winnie the Bago]

Hi RICHARD, ouch is right!!!

As it happens, I am planning to go camping this weekend in the motorhome WITHOUT hot water, so I will definitely be looking into your suggestions after that sometime.

Is the tank made of aluminum? Doesn’t seem a likely candidate for welding fix??
And do you have any recommendations about where I might get a replacement tank?
I do have the website winnebagoparts.com but I’m not sure which tank it would be or if they have a suitable tank for this model?

Chat soon. And thanks again.
Tian

 

[Morich]

I might first start with getting a brand and model off the current heater. There are often tags on the outside under the cover for that. Then the search can go easy or more likely it gets into something like that company no longer is in business and we have to look for an alternate.
Another question can get into whether that Motoraid is good enough to keep and if we can find one on the newer heater. IF you do in fact have one is still a guess as to where those two black hoses that look like radiator hoses , really go!
Motoraid was kind of a passing thing and I feel they are no longer available, but that is not certain either without shopping.
If Motoraid is no longer available, then there is a decision on what to do with the hoses?
One way is to just add a fitting to connect the two hose together at the point they normally go to the heater. That is the quick and easy way and the radiator water just comes to this area and goes back to the front!
But some don't like the idea of that much extra hose running water around to possibly fail at some point. Those folks prefer to remove or disconnect the hoses all the way to a point where they connect in the from engine. More work now or more work if it fails later?
I can see value in either method, so not really sure what I might do but I might go for letting a mechanic cut/reroute the hoses nearer the engine! I try not to set myself traps to catch me later!!! If you have hoses running twenty feet more than needed, they can split and loose all the radiator water which can lead to all kinds of roadside trauma with towing and overnights you did not plan for on a trip!

First step? Find what you have and do an online search for that being available as easier to reconnect, etc.
Sometimes there are too many options, so I start with weeding out what is NOT needed!
Note that this is not a Winnebago item and lots of RV use the same items. That can often lead to buying from a more general purpose RV parts dealer, rather than one who does Winnebago as a special item!
Tons of options so an online search for brand and model might be my starting point.

Assuming no manuals for what was there at start?

 

[Winnie the Bago]

Thanks again Richard for your guidance!

 

[Winnie the Bago]

I might first start with getting a brand and model off the current heater. There are often tags on the outside under the cover for that. Then the search can go easy or more likely it gets into something like that company no longer is in business and we have to look for an alternate.
Another question can get into whether that Motoraid is good enough to keep and if we can find one on the newer heater. IF you do in fact have one is still a guess as to where those two black hoses that look like radiator hoses , really go!
Motoraid was kind of a passing thing and I feel they are no longer available, but that is not certain either without shopping.
If Motoraid is no longer available, then there is a decision on what to do with the hoses?
One way is to just add a fitting to connect the two hose together at the point they normally go to the heater. That is the quick and easy way and the radiator water just comes to this area and goes back to the front!
But some don't like the idea of that much extra hose running water around to possibly fail at some point. Those folks prefer to remove or disconnect the hoses all the way to a point where they connect in the from engine. More work now or more work if it fails later?
I can see value in either method, so not really sure what I might do but I might go for letting a mechanic cut/reroute the hoses nearer the engine! I try not to set myself traps to catch me later!!! If you have hoses running twenty feet more than needed, they can split and loose all the radiator water which can lead to all kinds of roadside trauma with towing and overnights you did not plan for on a trip!

First step? Find what you have and do an online search for that being available as easier to reconnect, etc.
Sometimes there are too many options, so I start with weeding out what is NOT needed!
Note that this is not a Winnebago item and lots of RV use the same items. That can often lead to buying from a more general purpose RV parts dealer, rather than one who does Winnebago as a special item!
Tons of options so an online search for brand and model might be my starting point.

Assuming no manuals for what was there at start?

Hi again Richard,

Well the campout went well; just had to heat water on the stove.
However today's research has been a bit disappointing:

I have the original product booklet for the water heater system, but it covers several models and I am not sure which one it is; I will try to find out. I will say this though, that it is a six gallon tank, and it does have that connection the the engine radiator system; it’s called “RR Water Heater/MotorAid"

This gas water heater by Atwood:

Winnebago Brave
Model 1993 WCF27RQ
Serial No. 10F583255045

I just spoke with winnebagoparts.com and the woman there said that as of 2020, Winnebago had no water tanks available, and no replacements. In addition, The company that made the Atwood system didn’t have any either.

It would seem then that a motorhome ‘graveyard’ may be the only source of a such a replacement tank. And the woman at the parts store suggested a modification; maybe having to replace the door??? I have contacted a local RV parts dealer who will do some searching for me.

 

[Morich]

Well, that begins what is likely to be a long story!
I do not have any personal experience with chasing one of these heaters but only read about the problem.
With no personal info, I might suggest going two routes, perhaps at the same time?
The easier one might be to suggest starting a different post on the forum here with a title that might be more likely to snag the interest of folks who have been needing a replacement for this heater.
With a title like what to do to replace or repair this heater, you might be more likely to get the right folks attention that have already been down this road?
I know there are some who have had them repaired, but I have no idea if they recommend it?
Welding a patch on that spot may not be too much trouble for folks who are into welding aluminum? I might want to ask folks how they feel after doing it?

But then, at the same time, I know there are RV salvage yards all over the country and there is a constant stream of old RV being put to pasture every day! Some of them will have this type heater on board but who has it and when is the big issue! And it doesn't have to be a Winnebago at all as many different brands used the same!
I used to hang around salvage yards pretty often and they were great for getting cheap parts or parts that I really needed but nobody stocked!
Way back and before the internet, but there were salvage dealer networks so a call to one could let them do the search over a much wider area. I would almost bet that there is a much better online network doing that now?

Third option for the bold and daring? That picture of the damage, sent or carried around to good welders, might turn up a guy who does it every day that thinks it no big deal?

As I understand the door problem, it is a matter of shape and vents when we change to a different brand or type heater and that can get into difference in paint, etc.