Help! AirBag won't inflate - 2005 Vectra 40AD

[GregA-WO]

Hi there. I'm new to the forum so if this post is in wrong area - forgive me. Looking for some insight/assistance from anyone in the know with a problem that developed on the current trip we're on. Bit of a long post but details matter when troubleshooting IMHO.

Our Coach: 2005 Winnie Vectra 40AD w Cummins 400 ISL diesel, 325A HWH touchpad (manual leveling) for controlling leveling jacks and hydraulic ram slides (3x)

Problem Summary: stayed overnight at campsite with all 3 slides deployed and all 4 jacks down to level coach. Packed up as follows: retracted slides, retracted all jacks by following normal procedure (Ign on, touchpad enabled, 'Store' button activated on HWH keypad and let system run through store process 'til it turns off on it's own). tarted engine and waited for all 4 bags to inflate. Only 3 of them inflated - the front pass side did not. The bag remained deflated.


Troubleshooting effort so far:

1. have tried to 'recycle' HWH system by deploying/retracting jacks repeatedly with no change;
2. when air suspension system is inflating - there is no sound of air escaping from anywhere around the RF airbag - airbag does not appear to be ruptured or failed visually;
3. per threads on various forums - have tried starting coach, placing in gear, releasing air parking brake, hit the brake a few times, put trans back in N, PB on again, engine off -- no change.
4. the ride height mechanism next to the drvr side front wheel well area appears to be flexing and moving properly as the Dvr front airbag inflates/deflates - which I believe suggests that that is not part of the problem as the Drvr front airbag operates normally;

5. finally decided to contact (call and email) Paul Maddox ("AZPete") for advice; he was very responsive. we spit-balled through problem and agreed that whatever is at issue is affecting the one airbag only - which according to Paul rules out the probability that the dump and travel signals from the HWH ECU box are at fault (because Drvr front side airbag operates normally and dump/travel control signals are 'common' to both airbags). Paul zeroed in on thinking the likelihood that the 'travel' solenoid on the HWH 6-pack air manifold has failed. He indicated the limp home / workaround solution would be to swap the 'dump solenoid on the manifold for the RF airbag with the failed 'travel' solenoid for same airbag to allow us to inflate all airbags and drive coach home to address further at that point. I have looked everywhere in, on top of, around, near the front axle where Paul thought the manifold would be located - I cannot locate anything that appears to look like the manifold in that area. Even looked around the rear axle area to see if I could see a manifold there for the rear airbags - same - no luck - but didn't look exhaustively back there yet. (I'll try and attach photo here of the manifold I am looking for)


MY ASK: Can anyone who has a similar coach ('04/'05 Winnie Vectra or Itasca on Freightliner XC 'Evolution' chassis) tell me exactly where the manifold is located (exactly please - any photos would help if available). I am convinced it's not located around/near the chassis cross-member or axle area at the front axle - where there are what appear to be several other air valves/fittings etc. any assistance would be very much appreciated. Thanks.

 

[GregA-WO]

Quick followup on my problem:
1. as part of initial troubleshooting process - went under coach and located what I believe is the 'pilot dump valve' control which incorporates the switches/buttons for manually inflating and deflating the airbags. when I pushed what turned out to be the 'dump air' button - the drvr front air bag deflated. when I pushed the other ('inflate') button - nothing happened. I honestly can't recall if the coach was running/on at that point or if the HWH touchpad was enabled/'on' either. I've removed the valve from the coach and am about to test both of the two 3-wire harness/connectors for signal when HWH panel is activated and 'dump' button is pressed as well as after 'store' button/operation is pressed.

 

[Ranger Smith-WO]

From what I possibly recall on our 06 when we had it . . . Possibly under the front steps for access . . . Memory is vague oon that rig. as it was 17 yrs ago we had it.

 

[GregA-WO]

Thx for input @Ranger Smith. Not located there unfortunately looked again to be sure) - that area housing the 'hydraulic' fluid reservoir and the hydraulic fluid manifold with valves etc for operating the slides and jacks only.


Greg

 

[wyocamper-WO]

I have no way of knowing whether this pdf file would be of any help, but page 108 has a diagram and parts list of the hydraulic leveling system, and may help you locate the part you're looking for:

https://www.winnebago.com/Files/Files/Winnebago/Service/wincd/2005/5wks40ad.pdf

It's under Chassis Group on the left panel menu.

 

[emiddleb]

I've never had to dig into this as mine has been working fine so far, but here are a couple docs that I received when I went to Camp Freightliner years back... may help. Based on this, looks like the manifold is on the passenger side next to the primary air tank. Again, no firsthand experience with this but docs might help you.

 

[GregA-WO]

Going to start this post with a few thank yous followed by a little humble pie. Thanks for the info/files provided by @wypcamper and @emiddleb and the assistance provided over the phone by @AZPete (Paul Maddox). That info together with those files (especially those diagrams provided by emiddleb that he recieved from Freightliner) would have allowed me to diagnose the issue at that point - having crawled around extensively for over a day under the coach. Between those two diagrams for the air lines plumbing system and chassis parts representation - I recognize many of those parts from having looked at them several times. I'm saving both of those files for future use for sure as they are extremely useful for any troubleshooting process for the air suspension and related system. They allowed me to confirm two things: one - our coach does not use/have an HWH air manifold which was suggested (which explains why I could not locate one - anywhere) - it uses a group of Freightliner-supplied Wabco valves and controls together with a pilot dump system (also provided by FLiner) for managing the 'dump' and 'travel' mode switching process. Second: the air line schematic drawing supplies a legend for identifying which air lines (there are 8 different colors of air line tubing used on this coach) are used for which system - which would have been very helpful at the time trying to locate the air lines of potential interest.


Now for the 'humble pie': in a last ditch effort to 'try something' before making a phone call for help to a service rep somewhere and getting someone to come out to the coach to assess/fix - I decided to move the coach from where it was sitting (RF and RR wheels and the jacks were on an area of softer pea gravel) to a location where all 4 wheels were sitting fully up on the pavement. I was concerned about having the RF tire hit the inside of the coach body/wheelwell area as there was no clearance given low ride height. Managed to move it slowly and avoided turning front wheels much with wife's assistance and to my great surprise and joy, when on the pavement fully - the RF of the coach then looked totally normal in the aired-up position. There in fact had been no problem with the air bag. Prior to the last ditch effort of moving coach, I had been able to get under coach, look up at air spring/bag and see that the airbag appeared to be inflated (couldn't see or feel that from outside wheelwell as space was very limited - couldn't visually see nor get my hand/arm in there to physically touch bag). So I'm assuming that given the position of the coach, much of the front coach weight on the front axle area was being borne by the RF airbag/spring at that point which prevented the normal 'ride height' and wheel well clearance from being achieved. Was really happy about outcome but terribly embarrassed about the fact that I hadn't realized this sooner. Lesson painfully learned but much wiser for it. We packed up and drove the coach 200+ miles back home with no incidents. So thanks to all that tried to assist me here nonetheless. This is an invaluable community of members and source of knowledge. Hopefully this is of some assistance to others who manage to find themselves in a similar situation.


Greg

 

[emiddleb]

There's no better fix than an easy fix!

 

[GregA-WO]

Help - air bag won't inflate.

@emiddleb True that!! Thx again.


Greg

 

[RayIN]

I suspect the cause was the Neway right ride-height valve was not operating properly. The control rod is fastened on with a rubber grommet, it may have been in a bind somehow.
]

 

[GregA-WO]

@Ray,IN - so if you look at the two diagrams I posted above both indicate (as can confirm from looking under ours thoroughly) that there is a single ride-height valve/mechanism for inflating both front airbags (rear wheels have one for each wheel) located behind drvr side front tire. It appeared to be working properly when I looked at it - the mechanical arm was 'flexing' as the Drvr-side front airbag inflated and deflated. I really think the pass-side front airbag/spring appeared not to be inflated (but actually was) given that the pass. side of the coach was 'lower' than drvr side with the resulting 'lean' of the coach toward that side. But I can't say for sure at this point. Thx for input.

 

[RayIN]

OK, got it, you must have a Frieghtliner chassis.. My Spartan Mountain Master chassis with a Reyco-Granning IFS has 2 ride height valves in front, one on rear axle.

 

[GregA-WO]

Yup - correct - it's the Freightliner XC 'Evolution' chassis. I happened to be at the coach earlier today and took another look for the FL air manifold and sure enough, tucked away up in the generator bay beneath the dash area is the air manifold with several red and green air lines connected to it as well as a couple of elec. solenoids - right where the files/docs I posted earlier indicate it is located. Noted for future reference.
-Greg

 

[jerichorick]

Going to start this post with a few thank yous followed by a little humble pie. Thanks for the info/files provided by @wypcamper and @emiddleb and the assistance provided over the phone by @AZPete (Paul Maddox). That info together with those files (especially those diagrams provided by emiddleb that he recieved from Freightliner) would have allowed me to diagnose the issue at that point - having crawled around extensively for over a day under the coach. Between those two diagrams for the air lines plumbing system and chassis parts representation - I recognize many of those parts from having looked at them several times. I'm saving both of those files for future use for sure as they are extremely useful for any troubleshooting process for the air suspension and related system. They allowed me to confirm two things: one - our coach does not use/have an HWH air manifold which was suggested (which explains why I could not locate one - anywhere) - it uses a group of Freightliner-supplied Wabco valves and controls together with a pilot dump system (also provided by FLiner) for managing the 'dump' and 'travel' mode switching process. Second: the air line schematic drawing supplies a legend for identifying which air lines (there are 8 different colors of air line tubing used on this coach) are used for which system - which would have been very helpful at the time trying to locate the air lines of potential interest.


Now for the 'humble pie': in a last ditch effort to 'try something' before making a phone call for help to a service rep somewhere and getting someone to come out to the coach to assess/fix - I decided to move the coach from where it was sitting (RF and RR wheels and the jacks were on an area of softer pea gravel) to a location where all 4 wheels were sitting fully up on the pavement. I was concerned about having the RF tire hit the inside of the coach body/wheelwell area as there was no clearance given low ride height. Managed to move it slowly and avoided turning front wheels much with wife's assistance and to my great surprise and joy, when on the pavement fully - the RF of the coach then looked totally normal in the aired-up position. There in fact had been no problem with the air bag. Prior to the last ditch effort of moving coach, I had been able to get under coach, look up at air spring/bag and see that the airbag appeared to be inflated (couldn't see or feel that from outside wheelwell as space was very limited - couldn't visually see nor get my hand/arm in there to physically touch bag). So I'm assuming that given the position of the coach, much of the front coach weight on the front axle area was being borne by the RF airbag/spring at that point which prevented the normal 'ride height' and wheel well clearance from being achieved. Was really happy about outcome but terribly embarrassed about the fact that I hadn't realized this sooner. Lesson painfully learned but much wiser for it. We packed up and drove the coach 200+ miles back home with no incidents. So thanks to all that tried to assist me here nonetheless. This is an invaluable community of members and source of knowledge. Hopefully this is of some assistance to others who manage to find themselves in a similar situation.


Greg

Greg, this is great news. Every trip, I find, is a new adventure with new lessons to be learned about our rigs. With that said, have you ever taken your coach to the Freightliner Custom Chassis service center in Gaffney, SC? Well worth the money. Have you ever had the coach air system air dryer serviced? That is one of the many things they do.
I have 4x8 blocks I put under my pads. These help to stabilize the jacks with better footing when the ground is not ideal.
Happy trails and safe travels.
Rick

 

[GregA-WO]

Hey Rick - thanks for comments. If I ever get near SC area I will definitely want to do that (we live in CA). I added 'foot-pads' to the jacks last fall - but the 'blocks' are on my 'obtain' list already - yes. I have really good service record info from previous owners and have placed all that info into a service spreadsheet for tracking miles and time for various service requirements. I've already changed engine oil and filters, trannie fluid and filters, lubbed chassis, completely serviced generator (oil, coolant, fuel/oil filters, hoses, T-stat, etc). The air dryer was replaced recently - not long before we purchased the coach last July. We've also reno'ed the interior falrly extensively this past several months - month long trip to Utah planned with friends this fall. But as one of our RV friends told us - "there's always something to do" it seems... np - keeps me busy. Thanks again.
Greg