Help: 1984 Winnebago Chieftain - Lots of questions

[Duane0428]

Howdy y’all, my wife and I bought a 1984 Winnebago Cheiftan 22’ yesterday from a man who’s had it sitting for a number of years. It’s definitely a project, and due to my lack of knowledge of motorhomes, I’m not entirely sure where to start. The drivetrain seems to be in good condition short of the starter, but we drove it home. However, some of the guages don’t work (fuel, dash voltage,) and I’m not sure if the voltage check gauge for the cabin batteries is dead, or the batteries are dead. How would I check that? The water pump also doesn’t work, nor does the control panel above the stove. Some outlets and lights work… I say some because I’ve not tested them all. The generator also doesn’t start, the buttons do nothing. To me this sounds primarily electrical, but I’ll let y’all educate me. Thanks so much! - Duane

 

[Morich]

Welcome to the group and then also a bit of congrats on being willing to take on a project of this size! It
WILL take grit to get it done. But you likely knew that already and looking for help and info is a very good way to start. It did i a long time ago and there is one thing that may make it much easier now than when I started. There is an internet and that can hold a lot info, both good and bad!
the info is often out there but finding where to find it can be a the biggie problem!

But with that in mind, I can start you with some online info. But first question is how much info do you have now? Did you get any of the written info pack that should travel with the RV when sold? RV owners manual, chassis manual, frig, and such manuals are all golden if they are still on hand! As an RV owner, never throw any paperwork out as it certainly eases the search for specifics on the RV you owned. You likely know how info on the details of cars can help to sort out what engine you have? Same is true of RV except many more details and options are involved. for instance, your 84 RV may be built on a 83 chassis!
If you want things that are normal for a truck, like brakes, you have to know if they are for a 83 Chevy or maybe a 84 Ford! you get the idea, so if you have paper that tells you that sort of detain, it's a big help!
But this owners manual for an 84 may be good place to start on lots of details on what to expect if things are still as built:

https://www.winnebago.com/Files/Files/Winnebago/Resources/OperatorManuals/Operator1984/84Winnebago-Itasca.pdf

But you are very likely correct that much of the trouble will be electrical related for a couple reasons. One is that many controls are electrical. you have a propane furnace but the controls are 12VDC. And the batteries not only run down when not used but also connections on RV are famous for corrosion making them go bad! AND there are three basic parts tot he electrical on motorhomes.
One is the stuff we find on a no0raml truck. Horn, headlights, wipers?
Two are the things that need 12VDc to make it an RV. Things added by Winnebago as they built the "house' on top of the truck?
Three are the bigger power users that often require more power than batteries can give. Things like the air conditioner, microwave and outlets where you may want to plug in a hair drier or toaster? Those are 110AC things as well as what serves as a battery charger. Called a converter, it is likely built into the back side of a "load center" where there are fuses and breakers, it feed dc power to dc things like inside lights and vents, controls for lots of things like heat and air and also charges the set of batteries we call coach batteries.
The chassis battery is charged by the engine alternator, just as a truck does it!

But it get funky because these different systems connect and disconnect from each other at different times and different reasons. That can make it a real headache to learn for the first go as it has lots of confusing, just figuring out where to look. Is it a chassis problem, a coach problem or just a problem with the 110AC?

Part of how to best move, will depend on what you know about some of this stuff and what tools you may have on hand. Used to working on getting cars to run may mean it is good to start with the chassis and getting the the truck part to start and charge things.
But if you know a bit about electrical and have a meter on hand, it may also be good to pick out things on the 110AC and get it to charge the coach batteries.as a first step. Plugging in the cord is one place where you are likely to be able to get power for sure as a place to start?
I highly recommend not biting into the whole apple at one time but choose one section and get the main points up and running before trying to get other things involved.
One reason to say the 110AC is a good place to start is that we are more used to it as we use it at home. Also it is what makes the coach batteries charge. Sometimes better to wait on using the batteries until we get down how to recharge them!

One of the bigger issues may be that the online info on wiring only goes back to 1990, so that means it will take some educated guesses and trial and error to find out exactly how your RV wants to do things!

Best of luck and take it slow and easy as you can find the answers. Kind of like an Easter egg hunt at times?
Just keep looking under all the bushes till you find the golden egg!
It took the RV 40 some years to get here, so it may not feel like coming alive just too quick?

 

[Morich]

I have a bit more time and reading what you said, I know I skipped over answering some of your questions on how to begin.
If it starts, that is a big plus and you can begin to look at things like what seems wrong with the starter. How much have you worked on cars? Enough to be dangerous is where lots of us find ourself but if we go slow we can get something done! But it does help if you've done a few things before and know what a starter looks like! One of the things that happen to RV is the wires get corroded, so that can be a place to start but testing with a voltmeter is very likely to become something you really need as you get into this job.
It can always be some part like the starter is bad but it works lots better if you do some testing to make sure the battery power is actually getting to that starter before you start buying the expensive stuff!

Got a meter on hand? Need some "training " on how to use it or are you okay there? Just need to know where and what level to explain some of the stuff and then we can just go at some item and figure it out together as there are no good drawings to tell us where and how they did things. That makes it harder and we may have to guess a fair amount more!

But I'm betting a guy that figured out how to get it started when it seems like it won't start? I'm betting you know more than some folks I worked with!

One of the first things I would want to do is check the voltage on both sets of batteries as they are kind of the start of getting lots of things to work.

 

[Duane0428]

Howdy!

Thank you for being willing to help, I’m excited to tackle this! I will preface this project by saying I have very limited time these next couple of months, and this will be a project I mainly tackle through the winter, but will remain active in updating my progress and asking the questions I’m sure will arise. The motorhome did come with a big binder of manuals and receipts from throughout the decades, I’ve just not yet had time to sit down and digest the information, but it’s on the list. Thanks for sending the manual!

I do have a voltmeter and know some very basics about electrical work… like, what was confusing for a long time but I now know, is when you say 110… you really mean 120! My only experience w/ electrical is, funny enough, testing alternators and batteries, as well as wiring basic outlets in… so things explained in depth would be an incredible blessing.

I checked all the batteries, the chassis battery is great, reads 12.6 after being shut off for a while, and runs between 14.4-14.6 w/ the engine on. The coach batteries however, one has 1-2 volts, and one isn’t reading at all, so those will have to be replaced.

Question: when I bought “Benny,” he was plugged into a 15 amp outlet via an adaptor, and some electrical did work… but if the batteries are dead, how is that so? My understanding so far is the 110/120 charges the two Coach batteries via the converter… but they are dead. I’m assuming somehow the converter can bypass the batteries? But I’ll wait for an answer on that. Assuming the batteries really are dead and need replaced, once I replace them, how do I go about verifying the converter effectiveness?

Further, it’s possible for the last few years the only electrical supply Benny has had has been via that 15 amp adaptor into a standard outdoor outlet… could that have caused any problems being it should have 30 amps? I’m assuming when I start plugging it in for diagnostics and then eventually camping, I should always use a 30 amp if possible?

One more question: when testing w/ the 15 amp power, the A/C did work, as in the unit turned on, but it was blowing cool at best, definitely not cold. Could this be a power supply issue, an a/c from this era not being what I’m used to, or likely needs replaced? For some fun context, I am only 22 years of age.

When it comes to working on vehicles, I have some experience, definitely still learning, but the motor and tranny both sound and feel strong to me… definitely going to check and likely swap out most of the fluids soon… but I’m not in too big a rush because he’ll be sitting for the most part until he’s fixed up.

Looking forward to continuing to tackle this, thanks!

- Duane

 

[Morich]

Ok, that gives a lot of good baseline info for what level and where we might start and how quick!
There will be time when you ask and I am slow to answer but there may be others who jump in as well. Often we get differing ideas on how to do things and that can be good as you can then choose. there really is no one specific way for each of us.
the meter is going to get a lot of use and that is not hard to explain when you have one! I like to push out a bunch of info and then let you get around to it as you feel you have time and interest!

So I'll jump[ to some ideas!
One is a basic warning on the fluids as things can go downhill even while stored. We often think about the engine and oil and lube, but a big one to bite may be the brake fluid!
It is a chemical that actually draws in humidity from the air and that can be a sneaky killer if things are stored and that water builds up in the brake system. Any experience/knowledge about master and wheel cylinders? All those super fine machined cylinders where things slide back and forth? If water builds in the brake fluid and it is then used to push those cylinders in and out, the water is spread all through them!
If it set there for a few years and then we start to use the brakes, it is certain death as the rust which has formed is then scrubbed along those super shiny, finely machined cylinder walls to score them and soon they leak!
DON'T do that! Super big job and very expensive, so move changing the fluid way high on the list!

Electrical is more my space, so we may be good there! The 30-15 amp is one that is easier to explain than wheel cylinders!
Amp is a measurement of volume, like gallons of water expect it is the amount of flow. When we plug into any outlet, there will be wires that we don't want to force to carry too much, so we put breakers or fuses inline with them. the fuse/breakers are a limit or "weak" spot created specifically to stop current flow if it gets too high for the wire to be safe. No hot wires, so no burned house?
Big cord can carry 30 amps safely, but when we get inside the RV and use much smaller wires, we get much smaller fuses like 15 to protect those smaller wires.
That big cord you plug in only has three wires but they are BIG. Too big to be able to wire into something like a lamp or hair drier!
So what you are getting when you plug into a 15-20 amp outlet is less power/current that you can safely takeout of those smaller wires in the house. The plug is different to keep us from plugging big things into small outlets and using too much power to trip a breaker or fuse! Step one to head off letting you make a mistake!
Note on my sloppy way of speaking? I may often say fuse when it may actually be a breaker! Both do the same except you can reset a breaker and have to replace a fuse. So go with what you find if I call it wrong!

What us tricky RV folks want to do is getting at least some power to the RV, even when we don't have a 30 amp outlet, so we use adapters but it pays to know we are limited to only getting 15 amps at a time!
Often enough to run many things but the microwave and certainly the air cond. are a big question.
I might start with the idea that the air will not run? But it may be good to find where the breaker is that protects the outlet where you plug the RV in! It is to limit the Total load used in the outlet as well as any other outlets on the path in the house! knowing and finding what else is one that circuit in the house can be tricky if we don't want to go hunting all through the house for what went dead!
that one outlet might be the only one on a circuit or it might be on with an outlet feeding the frig and TV or a bunch of lights. If lots of other things might be on that circuit, it may work one time and not the next due to what else happens to be running at any point! Better to know where to restore that power, if you happen to push the limit! I am paranoid andplay electrical games, so I go through my panel and search out what each breaker feeds and keep a list at teh panel. It makes things easier if I blow the breaker and don't have to figure it all out in the dark!

I'll do some looking at drawings and some simple drawings of how some of the things in the RV feed and get back in a bit?
I'll feed info and you can keep or ditch it as needed or feel worth keeping. electrical drawings can be a confusing bunch of nonsense when first looking, so I tend to find what I need as a way to ignore the unneeded confusion.
Kind of like a map to get across or around town? find our path and ignore lots of the other routes!
I can be ignorant with the best of folks!

 

[Morich]

Since we don't have the real electrical drawings to check, there will be some guessing on how it was done on that age group but Winnebago does keep doing much the same over the years, so we may be okay.
the trick will be when I say to expect some item and you find it doesn't!
That is when you WILL need to point out what you find as it is what we need to deal with, not what I thought you would find! No offense taken if you tell me when I'm wrong!
Looking in the owners manual, I see several dash switches and buttons that are not what I expected, so we have to find out what is right!
For sorting the electrical, I might start with plugging the cord in if you have a place to do that. thought is that it is what charges the coach batteries to make lots of 12VDC things in the RV work.
This may be a good time to mention that there is likely to be a coach battery disconnect switch or some name like that to indicate you disconnect the batteries.
That can help to save battery when stored but that can also cause a problem ?? On most Winnebago, that battery disconnect controls a relay that does the cutoff. the problem is that relay also cuts the path from the converter which charges the batteries! When you plug in to keep the batteries charging but then open the cutoff, you wind up cutting off the charging as well.
Basics:
Plug the cord into power and that sends AC to things that use it directly. There are likely breakers on the left side of the load center and may be labeled for outlets, microwave and those will be hot as soon as plugged into power.
Or if the generator is running and you have no normal "shore power", you plug the cord plug into a square box that feeds the output from the generator.


That power goes to the load center and also to the converter. That converter is often built into the back of the load center and out of sight but you may hear it hum when things are quiet??
The converter "makes" 12VDC using the ac power. It feeds that DC to the coach batteries to charge and also to the 12VDC fuses that I expect on the right side of the load center. Those fuses feed RV things that a normal truck doesn't., like inside lights, fans, water pump and such. We might expect those fuses to be labeled?
One way to tell iof the converter is working and connected, is simple. Even if no coach batteries are connected, if you keep those battery cables away from metal and plug the cord in, the inside lights should start to work as they get DC power from the converter!

One way to move is disconnect the old coach batteries if you think they are dead, insulate those cable ends and then plug the big cord in. Even if only on 15 amps, that should make the converter start making 12VDC. That lets inside lights, fans and water pump begin to work!

One thing to keep in mind when testing things is that furnace and air cond. use propane or 120AC to run but they also use 12VDC for the controls like thermostat! I like to get the more simple things like lights working and then when I get those parts, look at things that are more complex and need both power feeds!

 

[Morich]

Looking in the owners manual? WOW! They did not give us too much and it looks like what is online is done from scanning paper manuals, so some is a bit skewed and faded!
But I did find some good stuff to confirm some ideas and pictures that may make it easier to pass info.
Lots of good info if you have a couple days to read and commit to memory!
But I think you do not have an automatic transfer switch. That can be good as less likely to fail!
I think you have a big cord to plug into shoe power outlet OR if using generator, yu plug it into an outlet in a compartment. Manual transfer switch , perhaps?
The other end of that cord should be in the back of a load center or power center where you first have the breakers on the left?

Possibly a 30 amp main breaker where all 120 AC power passes before breaking down to go to smaller breakers before heading out to each 120 AC item. Hoping there are labels to help find what each does?
Or do labels get old and fall off?
In behind this panel is the converter that changes the 120 AC to 12VDC for those items. Also there is likely a connection to send 12VDC toward the batteries for charging when plugged in.
The two lugs look like they might be wires from the converter to this panel before going to the fuses but checked that. Maybe a larger main fuses before going to smaller fuses for each item?

This is kind of the "heart of the power for RV things but not for truck items like headlights and wipers, etc. !
Those are in another panel, possibly below dash left of driver's foot or under the hood??
One way to test the converter is working is finding more than 12 volts on the lugs or fuses at right if the RV has not been plugged for a few hours and then you plug in.
If you flip the main breaker or one feeding converter on the left side to off and still get 12volt or more on the right, you are seeing battery! Turn the AC feed to the converter back n and it should jump higher than 12VDC as it tries to charge the batteries!
Then the next trick may be to go to the coach batteries and make sure that higher voltage is actually getting to the positive battery posts.
One big problem with RV that set too long is that wires and connections corrode, so expect to find some dirty connections that may need cleaned!

None of this has much to do with the other chassis/start battery for the "truck" parts!
But there is a switch on the dash to connect coach and chassis batteries together at times.
If starting battery is weak, you can get a jump start by holding that dash switch to the momentary direction while cranking. Jump start without getting out jumper cables!
OR
if you flip the switch to stay on full time, the chassis battery and engine alternator are then connected to the coach to let you charge the coach battery while you drive.
Later models have this done with and automatic "mode solenoid" but you have a manual method to do it.
One hazard is if you forget and leave this connected full time while you camp, you run the risk of running both coach and chassis down at the same time.
Heads up on not running radio and forgetting this switch is on or you get fully dead on ALL batteries!

I might suggest starting with getting the three different power systems working first as then you can depend on any of the batteries and begin to find if there are small things like water pump, etc. that need a look. A lot of those small things that look bad will jump up and start working if they get power good!
Lots of funny/different names on the dash switches, so that may need to just be a study all it's own to sort them and what the manual says.
Build the foundation before worry about the roof leaking?