Go easy on me, 1987 Winnie Chieftain 31

[unaffiliated]

Good morning everyone, Chris Fett here,

Exactly 2 weeks ago today, I bought my first RV, a 1987 Winnie Chieftain 31 footer. It is in great shape with only 27,000 miles but it has been sitting quite a while.

I had it towed to the storage lot at the RV park where I am currently staying in our Sooner Horse trailer with living quarters and converted to haul steel horses (Harley Davidsons) instead of real horses. I work at the Mercedes plant in Vance, Alabama but live in Coosa, Georgia outside of Rome.

I am currently in the process of getting the coach running so I can move it up to my site. Plus I have to bring the truck down to move the horse trailer. It doesn't need to be roadworthy yet as I will be living in it while working this contract job. I can sort out all that later. I did try the air conditioners prior to purchasing and the front one cools so I wont be living in an oven. Hopefully everything else works on it. Of course the previous owner said everything works but you know how that goes. He bought it new so I am the second owner.

I have a ton of questions already but I will save those for another post.

We had an old 65 Model Open Road RV (Chevy pickup cab type) growing up in the early 70's and mom bought another one in the early 80's. I think it was an 85. Ford van front with about a 24ft box. We also took a rental RV, similar to my current one, all the way to New York city for the re-dedication of the Statue of Liberty in 86 so I am familiar with all that can go wrong. I think something broke down every day of that trip and we had to be towed twice. What an adventure it was.

I am a mechanic by trade, 44 years and still at it, so it shouldn't be too hard to get this coach sorted out.

Sorry for the long winded post. Looking forward to getting this thing going. Hope to see y'all on the road, Chris F.

 

[creativepart]

Welcome Chris.

The very first thing to learn is that you’re working on a truck AND a house.

As a mechanic you’re thinking “truck” and that seems knowable to you. But there are no service manuals, very limited parts lists and plenty of oddities in that chassis. You’ll likely prevail and get it running. Most RV chassis are reliable and generally “the easy part.”

It can be the house that’s the most difficult to sort. These are not built like a sticks and bricks house. So lots to discover there.

The two most important things to fix right now are the tires and batteries. Tires on a motorhome age out in 5-7 years. The mileage doesn’t matter. Especially if the rv has been sitting. A blown front tire driving your rv back to GA can be deadly. Rollovers from a blown front tire are a real thing.

You have two battery banks, chassis and house, both banks are vital to the operation of your RV. Not just to start the motor but to run all manner of things behind the scenes. If the rv is old and sitting it’s likely the battery banks have been ignored and must be replaced, first thing.

Lastly, like a house, water intrusion is the enemy and you need to learn about how you roof keeps water out and then how to inspect your roof and the way to seal your roof connections and openings. Start by watching AZ EXPERT on YouTube.

Best of luck to you and enjoy the ride.

 

[BCam]

Welcome, as a mechanic you're in good stead for dealing with the "truck" issues that can develop from sitting so long. The major priority as far as the "house" part goes is to ensure that there are no leaks anywhere and all the roof fixtures are properly sealed (see the sealant link below).

If you're not already aware of it, Winnebago makes a lot of information available online to owners at:

https://www.winnebago.com/owners/owner-resources

Unfortunately, some of the year/model specific information doesn't go back past 1990 and some not even that far, but the 1990 plumbing and electrical diagrams, etc. should be helpful. Fortunately the parts catalog does and it contains some helpful diagrams. Often overlooked are the Service Tips, especially the one on sealants:

https://www.winnebago.com/Files/Fil.../Service/2016-05 Sealants Call-Out Sheets.pdf

Assuming that your converter/charger is original, another top priority is to replace it with one that has a modern multi-stage charger. This is what I purchased for my 2002 Itasca:

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00F8MC440/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Just match the amperage as close as you can so you don't have to re-cable it. When I replaced mine, the wire colors were either non-standard or faded so be doubly careful with all the connections. I misconnected mine but, fortunately, the only damage done was blowing the internal fuse in the new converter. I suggest removing the wires one at a time and labeling them as you do.

You also might want to set up a signature block similar to mine so we always know your exact year and model even if you forget to mention it. You can do so via the User CP in the toolbar. Note that, there will be some letters in your model designation. It looks like there were two versions of the 31' Chieftain in 1987, the M-31RT and the M-J31RT.

Have fun and keep us posted on your progress.

 

[unaffiliated]

Thanks creativepart,

The tires are original to the coach. They are beyond dry rotted. It was a little scary towing it over here but it was only 3 miles and the wrecker driver only went about 20 mph the whole way. He brought a really big wrecker because he figured the tires would be old and wanted to be able to control it if things went south. Fortunately the tow went very smooth and only knocked off the drain valve for the waste tank. Easy fix as it is just a rubber hose and clamp. The valve is all cracked up and needed replacing anyway. I wont be driving it back to Georgia for several months so I can shop around for the best tire deal. I can mount them myself if I take 2 wheels home at a time on my off days.

As for the batteries, the starter battery was missing and the house batteries were not original but VERY old. I have new batteries for it. I went with deep cycle marine batteries for the house. I read several threads on this site that recommended them for house batteries. Standard Group 78 for starter battery.

The roof is in good condition overall. I can only see a couple very small areas where it has leaked. We had a gully washer the other day and the coach is dry. I plan to seal everything up, once I get it up to my camp site. What is the go-to product for that? The previous owner said it was stored indoors in a warehouse up until January of this year but people will say anything when selling a vehicle.

I am sure I will run into all kinds of surprises but I think I got a good enough deal on it to offset the cost of those surprises. I got if about half od NADA value and already a guy at work offered to buy it from me if I decide to sell it when this job is over.

Thanks again. CF

 

[Morich]

As a guy that has done some oldones, Two things to keep in mind. One you likely know about and that is the way wheels cylinders tend to rustwhen notused. That means if you use them, there is a good chance the rust will score the cylinders.
You know what I'm getting at from there!

Second is much more confusing formany as batteries seem so simple!
You have the 110 Ac from plugging in or generator that runs the higher power stuff like microwave, air conditioner and outlets. Often not too hard to figure. (once you find all the parts!)
Second and likely thingsyou know very well is the chassis/start system which is much as normal trucks, only with afew added connections to the other 12 volt system.

Last and most headaches can be the coach 12VDC as it connectstot ehstart at timesand not at others. When engine is running there is a solenoid that connects both 12v together to get some charge into the rundown coach batteries after camping. But it does not keep them connected when stored, so be aware that both systems WILL have drains on the batteries and kill them if you don't use something to keep them up.

Here on the forum, I would say batteries and how to helpthem last is the number one question, so be alert!

Welcome to the group and we can certainly use lots of mechanical advise on the stuff you may know most about!
Forums are like slot machines? The more you put in, the more likely to get good stuff out!

 

[unaffiliated]

Thanks for the info and links BobC. I read on this forum that the info on the Winnie owners site did not go back past 1990 but it will still be helpful. I set up a signature line. Let's see if it worked.

 

[BCam]

The roof is in good condition overall. I can only see a couple very small areas where it has leaked. We had a gully washer the other day and the coach is dry. I plan to seal everything up, once I get it up to my camp site. What is the go-to product for that? The previous owner said it was stored indoors in a warehouse up until January of this year but people will say anything when selling a vehicle.

Your best bet is to go by the Service Tip on Sealants that I posted. Assuming your roof is fiberglass, it's best not to use Dicor, which is the most well known self-leveling sealant (see video link). You'll probably find that your fixtures have globs and globs of self-leveling sealant on them, sometimes several different applications extending out a couple of inches. This isn't productive and you should remove all the old sealant and sparingly apply new. If you see that the sealand under the fixture is dirty and compromised, it's best to remove the fixture, remove all the old sealant and re-seal with Winnebago's recommended sealants. Some of us, including me, cover the edges of our fixtures with Eternabond tape after sealing between the roof and fixture. Here's a link to some good info on this:

Roof and Roof items… | Chaos Leaves Town

 

[unaffiliated]

Assuming that your converter/charger is original, another top priority is to replace it with one that has a modern multi-stage charger. This is what I purchased for my 2002 Itasca:

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00F8MC440/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Just match the amperage as close as you can so you don't have to re-cable it. When I replaced mine, the wire colors were either non-standard or faded so be doubly careful with all the connections. I misconnected mine but, fortunately, the only damage done was blowing the internal fuse in the new converter. I suggest removing the wires one at a time and labeling them as you do.

Where in the coach would I find the converter/charger?

 

[creativepart]

It is usually below the fridge but on a 35-year old motorhome I can’t be sure where yours is. If your 12-volt house fuses and 110-volt circuit breakers are in a spot below your fridge then it’s likely that your converter is built into it or behind it.

 

[Morich]

I wish there were more info on the older as there are somany stillrunning but we have tomake do with what we have and there may bemore info out there than first thought. Looking at the parts catalog is one place to try to find what and where things are located.
So on the parts here:

https://catalog3d.winnebagoind.com/menu/Parts.htm

It does list clear back into the '70's but then I ran into a problem as they do not list your exact model, so a bit of guessing may be needed? But since I would be strictly guessing with no idea of what you are looking at in real time, I will let you see what you might find of value?
Then there is some hope that things on your 87 may not have changed a whole bunch by 1990, so a look at the wiring info which does start at 90, may be "some" help as Winnebago has always been known for keeping things that work on future models!
Possible some help here on wiring?

https://www.winnebago.com/Files/Files/Winnebago/Resources/Diagram/Wiring.htm

Or plumbing drawings?
https://www.winnebago.com/Files/Files/Winnebago/Resources/Diagram/Plumbing.htm

I would expect the converter to be built on/into backside of the load center as a guess, but do check all those ideas for being right or wrong!!

Changing out the converter may or may not be worth it, depending on what you find when you get there. The majorproblem with the older converter is that they do not taper off the charge voltage as well as newer.That can make a big difference when itcomes to how you maintain the batteries while stored as the older dotendtoboil them dry faster, etc.
It worked well at the time and was considered fine, but we have improved a
fair amount since, so it can become a question on valuefor the time, effort, money?
One way to work around the problem is to use a newer model battery charger when storing, rather than leave the converter doing the job. Cost benefit thinking involved!

 

[unaffiliated]

It actually does list my model but I was a bit confused myself because they list it as WC/WJN31RT. When I click on that parts catalogue, the opening page shows the two models separately as WCN31RT/WJN31RT. It has been a big help. I am back in Georgia for a few days so I will not be able to look behind the electrical panel for the converter. I will check into that next week. Meanwhile I will keep researching. Thanks.

 

[Morich]

WC? WJN? Winnebago Canada / Winnebago Japan???
The bigger question is if you can find anything that matches what you have!
Good luck on the trek!
I did a couple old rebuildsway back before there was an internet and info was just not there! I'm amazed that I was everable to get anything done without all the info that I consider VITAL!

 

[unaffiliated]

I am going to drag up an old post here to update everyone on my journey with "This Old Coach". It has been an adventure to say the least.

The original owner should have been a used car saleman instead of a commercial painter. He came at me with all the classic lines; "One owner, low miles (27000), everything works (ha-ha-ha, more on that later, has been stored indoors since new until recently (that appears to be true), ran when parked, (right.....when parked 30 years ago).

Anyway, I had to replace the carburator, starter, fuel pump, master cylinder and front brake hoses just to get it running and somewhat driveable to get it to my camp site. The tires are original from 1987, so I was even scared to air them up for the 1000+- foot journey to my site, but it drove there on it's own power. I wasn't sure about the fuel tanks as both showed full....of 30+ year old fuel so I just strapped a fuel jug to the sway bar and drove it up to the site.

I started living in it late September 2022 so it wasn't that hot. Front A/C unit would come on but did not cool. It appeared the compressor was locked up. I dealt with it while it was still warm and figured I would replace it it in the spring. The central propane heat worked but the thermostat was janky so mostly I ran electric space heaters that winter. I had to replace the front A/C unit ($1200) come spring of '23 because the rear unit would not cool the front of the coach. I could not run both while on shore power even though the switch said it was possible. Not sure about that.

The refridgerator did not work (Hmm, everything works.....right). I replaced it with a house type fridge from Lowe's that I got on sale (Regularly $700, marked down to $400, sweet). It fit absolutely PERFECT in the original hole. Now I had cold beer, woohoo....and food.

The water heater did not work (WHAT, did he lie to me again?). I replaced it with a Girrard tankless water heater from Camping World ($800-900 by the time I got it all plumbed up). Let me tell you how nice that is. Unlimited HOT showers. No more walking to the shower house every morning in 30F in winter to 95F weather in summer. Quite possibly the best use of money.

I did get a modern thermostat for the central heat in winter 2023 and it was great for about a week before the unit quit heating. The blower worked fine but no heat. From what I researched online, most likely the sail switch has gone bad which apparently opens up the gas valve. I have not gotten into that repair because the heater unit will have to come out from under the cabinets just to get the access cover off to get to the sail switch.

I have not tried to run the generator because of the old fuel situation.

This brings me to the reason for this post. I am looking to sell the coach as my contract job seems to be nearing an end. I want to get it driveable so that it will be easier to get most of my money out of it which is somewhere around $10,000.

Yesterday, I pulled the rear tank out because it is easier to get to and much smaller than the main tank. It shows full, but from tapping on it, it clearly wasn't. It is apparently 30 gallons according to the original build sheet which I found in the coach. It probably only had a gallon or two of nasty 30+ year old fuel in it. The sending unit which is also the fuel pickup/return is absolutely disgusting. I don't think it is salvageable. I am going to make a post in the tech/repair section to try and locate the sending unit.

Thanks for staying with me through this lengthy post. I have enjoyed living in this coach but it is time to part with it.

 

[Morich]

Hello again! Nice to see things and get a report!
You are far ahead of me on the chassis side of things, so I will watch on those!
But some ideas on the heater may not be as hard as it sounds.


When you turn the thermostat up to heat and the blower comes on, that is goo as a first step. But there is a really different plan on RV versus what we find at home furnaces.
They worry that the furnace may fill the RV with gas and then explode, so they work at safety with the sail switch. Blower works and that starts a timer as a way to make sure the blower is moving enough air. Two round ports on the outside of the rV are one in and one exhaust coming out.
Air goes in, across the sail switch which is very much like it sounds. A "sail" moves and closes a micro switch----when things are right! If the microswitch closes timing moves on. If not it shuts down and the gas valve never opens and you are dead in the water!

One of the tricks to know is how often wasps or mud daubers find those ports and they love to go in for home! Both those groups love to hang a nest on something hanging down from the ceiling and that is often the sail switch! Sail doesn't move if there is a nest wrapped around it!

If you can get the furnace out and pull the switch, it is easy to see what is wrong. But that is often a bummer for time and labor!
A guy that is bold enough might stick something like soft copper wire into the ports and kind of "fish" around to see if you catch some nest when you pull it out?
Bold if it is warm weather as the wasps tend to get even????
Also, watch that you don't snag the wire on the switch and tear it up getting the wire out!
If you get nest or dirt like from a mud dauber. more banging around may get the sail moving again to avoid pulling the furnace! Kinda iffy move but may be worth the try?

But then a good idea is to put some small spaced screen over those vents. Something like 1/8 inch or a little smaller is what I use. Some info says not to screen them but I don't want to pull the furnace to fix it so I try to go small enough not to let wasps in but not so tight that air does! Not a trick a mech can't figure a solution!

But another thing that happens on RV is that they set to much for too long and things like connections corrode. Look around and see if you can find electrical connections for the furnace and wiggle any of the plug on type as they tend to collect dirt!
It may be a switch problem but it can also be the connections are just dirty!

Carry on and let us know how it goes?

 

[unaffiliated]

Thanks for that info Morich.

I made a post (actually 2 because I couldn't figure out how to post pics originally) about the fuel tank sender/pickup assembly. I am trying to find the unit for the auxiliary tank. I am assuming Winnie installed the aux tank as an aftermarket item when building the coach. I cant read the label on the tank and can't seem to find the sending unit. Any help there would be appreciated.

P.S. I tried to delete the post without pics but couldn't figure out how to do that.

 

[Morich]

Cold day nere and a good time to dig a little deeper?

I "think" you may have one of the Suburban furnaces. There may be a label on the furnace to tell you exactly which one but this is what I might expect to find.
This site for manuals:
https://manuals.heartlandowners.org...CE_Service-and-Training-Manual-11-05-2015.pdf
One thing I noticed is that you may not need to pull the furnace to get to the sail switch, etc for better looking than probing with a wire!
This blue line is how the air goes in, through the section where there is fire and then exhaust! I think the sail may be sticking out of part of that you can reach from outside without pulling it out?? Warning! That's a guess!
But I might also warn that I have had trouble getting that cover ff as the vent parts were stuck together. I went years before I found they were two parts and I had always just ground the heads off at the vent!
you might find a better way once you know they are supposed to come apart!! I was doing it before internet and having pictures!

Down about page 26 for a troubleshooting guide for the steps to expect it to go through.


Way too many pages and you likely have to figure which page is for what you have!

Have you gotten into needing chassis parts and found the chassis may be a different year than RV? There should be a label near the driver's left side with when it was built and by whom!