Electric Issues With My 2004 Itasca Horizon 40WD

[Morich]

This is the drawing set that shows how the batteries should have been wired when built:
https://www.winnebago.com/Files/Files/Winnebago/Resources/Diagram/2004/04_s40wd_wire_146738.pdf Sheet 1 shows batteries.
you may want to look at his link to get more details but I can draw in some lines and add some info that may help to check that part of the wiring. Winnebago has a way of marking cables and wires when they build the RV. But the tape they use can get old and fall off! Maybe it is there, maybe not!
I am fighting to get information moved from an older computer to this one and I am not able to pass info along as I expect.
But if you want to check the battery cables and how they are wired, this should help?


But when I started to draw in where the cables show to connect, it looks like there is a mistake in the drawings. OR maybe I can't see what they meant?
It looks like they show the negative and positive cables both go to the same metal buss bar, attached to the RV frame. This would not be correct!
Maybe take a look at this drawing and see if it has me confused or what? I think it is going to be wrong and the negative battery posts connect to the ground bar. The positive has to go somewhere else to feed things like the starter!
They can't both go to ground!

Then when I look at the coach battery drawing, it seems to show the same mistake???

I worry when I see things like this! The idea is that the negative post of all the batteries should connect the the metal bar that is mounted on the frame. ALL negative posts of both battery groups can connect to this for ground!
But all coach positive posts and should connect to each other but then go to other places to feed power to items that use it. The positive CANNOT be connected directly to ground!

BAD mistake if I'm reading this drawing correctly!

UGH!

 

[Morich]

Looking at the transfer switch may be a good place to start as that is where power comes into the RV when we are plugged in. This has lots of problems and some of them really do need to be fixed before you drive very far as it can cause really big problems if the wires get damaged. And the work that has been done is likely to cause damage!
Maybe fires!
I turned the picture over to look at it like the drawing has it turned, more so we are looking at it the same direction. How it sets in the RV is no problem but for ease of us talking about it!

There appear to be three bigger cables coming in at the bottom in the picture I turned over. on the left bottom, those two cables probably go to the cord to plug in and the other may lead to a box or connection that then has a cord going to the generator. I think those will bring power to this transfer switch.
The switch then decides which to connect through and pass out to the RV load center on the big cord at bottom right!
That big cord is likely to get damaged and cut as the wires go through the metal hole! It needs pulled up so the heavy outside cover protects the inner wires or something to avoid metal cutting into the wires.
Same at each top corner where there are black wires and blue wires that we don't know where or what they do!

Too many wires that are not what was built! So following them to some end to see what is there or are they just loose ends somewhere? Maybe some of those loose plugs and you might just remove them?

You've got a big mystery there!!

 

[akozlowski]

I really Appreciate all you are doing, I just Climbed under this Damn things and seen Wire Harness that is Unplugged for HWH Computerized Leveling System and other WIres just hanging out UGH. This could solve the no Power to the Leveling control panel, I have a call into HWH asking what it will cost for all New Harnesses and the Control Board as well. Waiting on a call, While I was there I also Notice Wires broken going to the entry Steps, I spliced them back together and Either the control board is shot or Motor because they do not work Either. WHAT A DAMN MESS. Just to let you know how I go myself into this nightmare, I went online to a well known Auction site called Auctiontime. I bid on this RV because the Pics and Description made it appear like a really good deal. It was supposed to only have 44K miles on it. So obviously I won it for $32450. When I went to PA to pick it up I discovered that the Pics on Auction did not match the RV, I also noticed that there was about 2 inches of water in areas inside because the whole roof Fiberglass was missing. It was not running and Odometer read 149433 Miles. Unfortunately I already paid for the damn thing and of course the listing seller stopped answering my calls. So I am stuck, I had to pay almost $8k to a diesel repair shop in PA to get it running. and Now I am trying to decide if its worth Putting the $30-40K into it to make it right. If I can get the Generator to Fire and run I will do it because I can put a Life time roof system on it and gut the inside and rebuild it the way I want it. Word of caution NEVER pay for anything before you check it out, I trusted that the Auction place would assist me and they wouldn't do anything. I discovered the seller is actually a Dealership in Pataskala OH hiding behind a made up Business and selling Salvaged Autos online. OH Attorney General would do nothing because this made up Business was Registered in Delaware with the use of Online Corp Attorney.

 

[Cooperhawk]

I'm looking for a tractor for our small woods to keep things cleaned up and these online auctions have gotten wind that I'm in the market and I am assailed with their adds, (and what deals they are). Just like you have learned, I don't trust these online deals at all. Even dealers need to be carefully looked at. They aren't always upfront. I'm sorry you got taken in but at least you have a plan to make use of it anyway.

 

[Morich]

ARRGH! Sounds like a bad one and you may have to just work your way out!
One big point about this sort of things to keep in mind might save a bundle of money!
An RV has the three different power groups, the normal truck stuff, the stuff added to make it an RV and then the 110ac system.
They all connect to each other and need each other to work at different times.
One of the important things before spending big money for expensive things like circuit boards is that they sometimes need power from different places to run.

The air conditioner is one that uses teh12VDC coach power for controls like the thermostat, but then also needs the 110AC power to make the main compressor of the unit work.

I tend to like to avoid spending money first but it also means there are times when I don't do the work. It may look like the thermostat is no good but the real problem is a simple wire is loose or a fuse blown.
If I change the thermostat first, it will not fix it and I will have done that work and STILL have to find out why the power is not good to make it work!

Different people all have different methods and ways they work, but I like to start at some point and go along a path, fixing problems as I find them.

My reason for starting at the cord where you plug the RV in, is that it is what makes the coach batteries charge!
The engine starting battery and the controls on the generator can be either the truck or the coach system of batteries. So the might not be able to tell how the generator works if we don't have the coach batteries working!

It has to have the power to the controls and also the power to crank it before it has any chance of starting.

I see the reason you would be ready to have that answer but we may not be able to get there until we can know the batteries are getting charged as they should.
The leveling jacks are also a place that needs connections and power from different places. Some wiring will control the control board, while other connections will provide the power to the pump that makes the hydraulic pressure to lift the RV.

Somewhat like turning on a lamp? We need to know if the lamp works but before we change the switch at the wall or buy a new lamp, we need to check that we have paid the power bill and also we need to know the lightbulb is good!

From the pictures, it looks like this RV might have been used as an office of some type. Maybe a mobile dentist office?
That bunch of disconnected cables may mean they had equipment that needs different power for things and they jus took that out. But they may have never used the generator, so it never got connected when they made changes.
I never trust what other people may have done when I see trouble like this.

I suggest we will have to go slow and when you find an item that doesn't work, try to fix that item first. I thought to start with the 110AC as it is what should keep the coach batteries charged and they are a big part of getting the controls on lots of other things to work.

But this IS your RV and you may have other reasons for doing one thing before another, so when I might suggest fixing one thing and you really need something else to work first, it is fine to tell me what YOU want to do!

I will try to tell you what I see as needed done but there are times when I have no idea what the person on the other end needs.
I'm going to be a bit busy this morning but will get back to this when I can.

 

[akozlowski]

I'm looking for a tractor for our small woods to keep things cleaned up and these online auctions have gotten wind that I'm in the market and I am assailed with their adds, (and what deals they are). Just like you have learned, I don't trust these online deals at all. Even dealers need to be carefully looked at. They aren't always upfront. I'm sorry you got taken in but at least you have a plan to make use of it anyway.

It just takes one bad egg to Ruin everything. I am more upset that the Auction Site does not offer any recourse or Anything to prevent this from Happening. But it is what it is I just warn folks every chance I can

 

[akozlowski]

ARRGH! Sounds like a bad one and you may have to just work your way out!
One big point about this sort of things to keep in mind might save a bundle of money!
An RV has the three different power groups, the normal truck stuff, the stuff added to make it an RV and then the 110ac system.
They all connect to each other and need each other to work at different times.
One of the important things before spending big money for expensive things like circuit boards is that they sometimes need power from different places to run.

The air conditioner is one that uses teh12VDC coach power for controls like the thermostat, but then also needs the 110AC power to make the main compressor of the unit work.

I tend to like to avoid spending money first but it also means there are times when I don't do the work. It may look like the thermostat is no good but the real problem is a simple wire is loose or a fuse blown.
If I change the thermostat first, it will not fix it and I will have done that work and STILL have to find out why the power is not good to make it work!

Different people all have different methods and ways they work, but I like to start at some point and go along a path, fixing problems as I find them.

My reason for starting at the cord where you plug the RV in, is that it is what makes the coach batteries charge!
The engine starting battery and the controls on the generator can be either the truck or the coach system of batteries. So the might not be able to tell how the generator works if we don't have the coach batteries working!

It has to have the power to the controls and also the power to crank it before it has any chance of starting.

I see the reason you would be ready to have that answer but we may not be able to get there until we can know the batteries are getting charged as they should.
The leveling jacks are also a place that needs connections and power from different places. Some wiring will control the control board, while other connections will provide the power to the pump that makes the hydraulic pressure to lift the RV.

Somewhat like turning on a lamp? We need to know if the lamp works but before we change the switch at the wall or buy a new lamp, we need to check that we have paid the power bill and also we need to know the lightbulb is good!

From the pictures, it looks like this RV might have been used as an office of some type. Maybe a mobile dentist office?
That bunch of disconnected cables may mean they had equipment that needs different power for things and they jus took that out. But they may have never used the generator, so it never got connected when they made changes.
I never trust what other people may have done when I see trouble like this.

I suggest we will have to go slow and when you find an item that doesn't work, try to fix that item first. I thought to start with the 110AC as it is what should keep the coach batteries charged and they are a big part of getting the controls on lots of other things to work.

But this IS your RV and you may have other reasons for doing one thing before another, so when I might suggest fixing one thing and you really need something else to work first, it is fine to tell me what YOU want to do!

I will try to tell you what I see as needed done but there are times when I have no idea what the person on the other end needs.
I'm going to be a bit busy this morning but will get back to this when I can.

I am a Throw parts at it and see if it fixes it, (Most of the time never works) when the end result is something so stupidly simple like a bad ground. So I have decided to spend the money and have a mobile Tech to come out and have professional eyes on it to tell me exactly what the issues are this time. He will come next week I will Definitely update results. Again I Appreciate all the responses and Suggestions more than you will ever know. I do not take the time you guys have spent to assist me for Granted and Again I want to Thank everyone so much for taking time out of your lives to assist me

 

[Morich]

No problem! With the time, I am sometimes taking advantage of the posting as a way to keep my mind engaged! I am normally setting here waiting while techs in the field are moving or doing something , then we need to talk! But we have lost some of the better techs that I dealt with and that part of my life is closing as we lose the guys who may not be legal but are having to hide and now can't work. Some of them are legal but their family is not, so we lose the benefit of the whole group!

It seems we are going back and chasing people who are trying to get their paperwork in order but closing down the people who provide the papers!
Meanwhile things are getting in a crunch because these are some of the few who are willing and able to fight the West Texas situation.
It's a tough job out there in the middle of the night by yourself and most of us will not do it!

 

[akozlowski]

Just got a ATS in the Mail and I have a Guy that is Fluent in Electrical in RB coming over and charging me $300 Hopefully to give me a better understanding on what the issues are. I also Ordered 2 Battery Monitors so I can watch the chassis and House Batteries remotely. if the electrical issues are min. and easily fixed I am thinking about ordering Solar Panels. I do not know if I mentioned this already but while I was fixing the issues with Exterior Steps not working I discovered the Leveling system Fuse box and found 3 Plugs on the back of it Unplugged and a few strangling wires that I will have to dig into and see if this Fixes the control Panel not powering on

 

[akozlowski]

No problem! With the time, I am sometimes taking advantage of the posting as a way to keep my mind engaged! I am normally setting here waiting while techs in the field are moving or doing something , then we need to talk! But we have lost some of the better techs that I dealt with and that part of my life is closing as we lose the guys who may not be legal but are having to hide and now can't work. Some of them are legal but their family is not, so we lose the benefit of the whole group!

It seems we are going back and chasing people who are trying to get their paperwork in order but closing down the people who provide the papers!
Meanwhile things are getting in a crunch because these are some of the few who are willing and able to fight the West Texas situation.
It's a tough job out there in the middle of the night by yourself and most of us will not do it!

 

[akozlowski]

This whole Immigration thing is a Double Edge sword, Like everything in life good people are punished for the Evil one's. Sorry you and these families are going thru this.

 

[akozlowski]

Update, I had a Mobile RV electrical Guy come out and he tested a bunch of things and could not figure anything out, LOL My Luck. I am trying to get ahold of another guy to see if he has any better luck. I was abl to Fit Entry Steps I found a broke wire. Also at the Back of the Generator the positive and negative posts are showing 12.75 Volts. Still cannot get the Generator to Turn over at all and still have the issue with only some electronics inside the RV only work when you push and hold the BOOST Button. Replace both the solenoids and checked out the wiring to them all is working as it should. I am planning on removing the Inverter/Converter and removing the Plugs that were installed on them to see if this makes any changes

 

[Morich]

Some things to talk about!
When the things in the RV work but only when you are pushing the boost button, it is telling us the path from the chassis or the coach batteries is not getting to where it should to power those items.
There are two sets of batteries that normally feed two different groups of items.
Coach is the inside lights, vent fans and water pump. Things that are added to make it an RV that are not on the normal truck?
Chassis is the electrical stuff that is found on a truck. Horn, outside lights, turn signals and headlights, etc.!

When one group is not working and getting power from it's normal coach or chassis battery but it does work when we push the boost switch, that tells us there is a problem with the battery getting from the normal one but it does get power when we connect the second group of batteries. When we push the boost switch, the solenoid connects both battery groups together.

If there are inside things like lights, vent fans, or water pump that don't work until you push the switch, that means the path from the coach batteries to those items is not good. Make sure all the battery disconnect switches are on when trying!
Like this drawing shows:

When trying normally without the switch pushed, the power is not getting from the coach batteries to run things. Red line doesn't work!
But when you push the switch it makes contact inside the solenoid to connect the chassis battery to the coach wires! Then thigs work because they are using power from the chassis batteries, like the green line.

AND that problem may also be what is keeping you from starting or even cranking the generator! The controls for starting the generator may need to have coach power to start cranking!
It may be possible to get it to crank a bit if somebody holds the switch and also somebody pushes the generator start switch?? Not sure of that but often it needs coach battery to start.


One way to try this is starting the RV engine first. When it is running the solenoid connects the two batteries together while we drive. That may make the drawing green line above feed power to the controls on the generator and then when you push the start button, it may crank??
Not certain of that but something to try and see what it does.
Sometimes getting the problem with the coach battery seems to fix lots of things as it is used for controls on things like the furnace, air conditioner and other things we may not think about yet??

Running the RV engine may help several things come alive! It may not be the generator broken. It may be like a flashlight with no batteries! Maybe connecting the other battery group makes it work?

 

[akozlowski]

I have tried Starting the Generator with Coach Running and Pushing the Boost Button that does nothing but the same 3 flashes with the code 46 coming up

 

[Morich]

Okay! Bummer, but there may be some help if you go to a manual that explains some things about the alarms and how they may mislead you?

https://manuals.heartlandowners.org/Electrical/Generator/Onan%205500/Onan%20Troubleshooting%20Codes.pdf

This is the first one I found but may not be the exact one for the model you have? check if it doesn't look right as i just picked the first I found.
One thing I noticed is a note that the alert may still be there after the problem is fixed???
Page one has this note:

But a second problem is that this manual doesn't list a fault code 46??
Is this the wrong manual or did you miss counting the flashes? Easy to do or this may be the wrong info!!

Maybe you can find some info on which model generator and find if this is good info or bad?

 

[Morich]

I notice mention of a start button directly on the generator. Do you spot anything like that? It mentions trying that switch instead of the normal spot inside. Maybe something to check?
I would have to fall back to the troubleshooting charts in the manual as I don't know enough to have as much info as they tell me!

 

[emiddleb]

From my Onan manual re code 46...

INVERTER POWER SUPPLY FAULT—CODE NO. 46
(Low battery voltage or power supply device failure)
Corrective Action:
1. Avoid running the genset while cranking the vehicle engine in installations where the genset batteries
are used to supplement the vehicle engine batteries.
2. Clean and tighten the positive (+) and negative (–) battery cable connections at the battery, vehicle
frame and genset (Page 17).
3. Recharge or replace the battery. Refer to the battery manufacturer’s recommendations.
4. Install or service a battery charging system in the vehicle if the genset is not so equipped.

 

[akozlowski]

Well I had a Guy come over and he spun what I am assuming is the Crank on the Generator and he said he should not have been able to turn it that easy and believes in his opinion the Generator is shot. I am going to try and remove one of the sides to get to the Starter and jumper it to see if it turns over.

 

[akozlowski]

From my Onan manual re code 46...

INVERTER POWER SUPPLY FAULT—CODE NO. 46
(Low battery voltage or power supply device failure)
Corrective Action:
1. Avoid running the genset while cranking the vehicle engine in installations where the genset batteries
are used to supplement the vehicle engine batteries.
2. Clean and tighten the positive (+) and negative (–) battery cable connections at the battery, vehicle
frame and genset (Page 17).
3. Recharge or replace the battery. Refer to the battery manufacturer’s recommendations.
4. Install or service a battery charging system in the vehicle if the genset is not so equipped.

I have done all this I have 13 Volts to the two posts to the bottom rear of the Generator.

 

[akozlowski]

I have done all this I have 13 Volts to the two posts to the bottom rear of the Generator.

I am going to try and cross the starter to see if it turns over, I wonder if I can put a battery by the generator and hook it up directly close by. If so would I hook it to the two posts on the back lower portion of the generator?