Do you brake lights come on with the engine brake?

[Bryan H]

Just realized mine do. I'm not sure I like that. Thoughts?

 

[BigSkyBob]

So do mine but I think it's a safety issue so I don't mind if they come on, especially to warn folks who follow too closely that you are slowing down.

 

[flaggship1]

Not a Winnebago owner but my Fleetwood does. Suspect most do. Since it should only be on while slowing - braking it gives notice to others that they should be too. Now they should know that if a retarder is needed, as you will likely be on grade. But, some folks drive more cautiously than others. I would want those less cautious folks to know I'm slowing and not run up on me. It is true that using it and the tranny allows you to use service brakes sparingly but you are slowing and in effect braking.

I think I've read where some folks disconnect the feature but wouldn't advise it. Curious as to why do you you don't like it?

 

[AFChap]

Yes, the brake lights come on when any type brake is applied. Watch the brake lights of big trucks glowing all the way down long grades ...they are no on the foot brake but are coasting with the engine brake on. I do however believe that when my cruise is on and exhaust brake is working to keep me at the set speed that my brake lights then do not come on.

 

[FIRE UP]

Just realized mine do. I'm not sure I like that. Thoughts?

Yes Sir, they will come on. And, as has been stated, it's a notification that you are slowing down. And since there's many numb skulls out on the road now days that tail gate our rigs, even when towing, the feature of those brake lights appearing when I even start to slow down at least puts out a notice.

Not a Winnebago owner but my Fleetwood does. Suspect most do. Since it should only be on while slowing - braking it gives notice to others that they should be too. Now they should know that if a retarder is needed, as you will likely be on grade. But, some folks drive more cautiously than others. I would want those less cautious folks to know I'm slowing and not run up on me. It is true that using it and the tranny allows you to use service brakes sparingly but you are slowing and in effect braking.

I think I've read where some folks disconnect the feature but wouldn't advise it. Curious as to why do you you don't like it?

Yes Sir, I think I've read the same thing that there's some that will disconnect the brake light application when the E/B is activated. WHY IN THE WORLD, would one do that???? I mean, I cannot think of one, even REMOTE reason why it would or should be done. There's enough faulty, non-working brake lights out there in the normal world without manually disconnecting some from your rig.

Yes, the brake lights come on when any type brake is applied. Watch the brake lights of big trucks glowing all the way down long grades ...they are no on the foot brake but are coasting with the engine brake on. I do however believe that when my cruise is on and exhaust brake is working to keep me at the set speed that my brake lights then do not come on.

AFChap,
The engine ECM is in control of your E/B and, when coupled with the brake lights, it over rides the Cruise control and still applies the brake lights. I've read much of the technical data on my engine ECM, trans ECM, J-1939 Data Link, ABS Module, and all the supporting components of those items and I did read that the E/B will activate the Brake lights any time it's applied. Some say that the E/B will not operate at all if the Cruise control "ON" switch is in the ON position. On our 2004 Itasca Horizon 36GD with the C-7 330 CAT, it doesn't matter if I've got the Cruise switch on or off, the E/B will still activate if conditions are met. And as you well know, those conditions are, foot completely off the accelerator, speed increase sensing activated and, the E/B switch is in the ON position.

To any and all, as I stated, I can't imagine why anyone would want to disconnect that feature. But, it's their coach so they can do as they please. I sure as heck would want notification that I'm slowing on long grades or off ramps or anywhere and traffic is tight. If a person was to run into the rear of me (or my toad) because I was on the E/B and had no brake lights were displayed, all they'd have to do is tell the investigating officer "there were no brake lights". That doesn't mean they'd get away with running into me, but, it would just make things a whole lot worse.

Just easier and safer to have them work when any form of braking is being applied.
Scott

 

[calhyatt]

Just realized mine do. I'm not sure I like that. Thoughts?

Our Newmar KSDP will turn on brake lights when the eng brake switch is on and the engine brake is actually engaged. Transmisssion indicator also annuciates 2 in the led panel. When the engine brake shuts off the indicator goes back to 6 and the brake lights turn off.

 

[Mr_D]

On our 2002 DSDP the center brake light comes on when the ebrake is in use. All the brake lights come on when the service brakes are used.

 

[Skip426]

Spartan, Freightliner, every chassis manufacturer seems to do; the brake light thing; a little differently.
But as others have stated, I consider it a safety feature.
Didn't know about , them coming on in my coach, until I went to use my 4 way flashers when using the exhaust brake, on my first trip.
Makes for a bit of a problem , selecting a brake controller or wiring a controller in , to avoid overheating toad brakes.
But there is a fix for every problem.

 

[1ciderdog]

To any and all, as I stated, I can't imagine why anyone would want to disconnect that feature. But, it's their coach so they can do as they please. I sure as heck would want notification that I'm slowing on long grades or off ramps or anywhere and traffic is tight. If a person was to run into the rear of me (or my toad) because I was on the E/B and had no brake lights were displayed, all they'd have to do is tell the investigating officer "there were no brake lights". That doesn't mean they'd get away with running into me, but, it would just make things a whole lot worse.

Scott[/QUOTE]

I drive steep grades and often need to apply the brakes when using the exhaust brake. For example I'm going down I-5 in southern Oregon or in northern California the exhaust brake is not strong enough to hold the speed at 55 or 60 mph but allows the speed to increase so foot brake must occasionally be applied to slow the vehicle. At that point the vehicles behind me do not know I'm applying brakes and slowing down.

 

[CampDaven]

Brake lights indicate "brakes applied" to anyone behind you, not specifically that you are slowing down.
The lights are doing their job.

 

[flaggship1]

1cidersog - I don't drive grades often so help me out. If your speed of decent is 55 or 60 down hill - between manually downshifting your transmission and or cruise control cant you maintain proper speed and rpm without engaging whatever form or retarder you have? I have done that - but am again - not a "grade driver". I just figured I would not engage retarder unless slow was the way to go and don't consider 55 to 60 to be slow or reason to engage. Help me learn here. Thanks.

 

[Dr4Film]

I have a Monaco Windsor and my brake lights come on when the PacBrake Exhaust Brake has been engaged.

I like it that way so it's going to stay. I haul a 30 foot trailer so when driving grades I want people behind me to know when I am driving a lot slower than they are. Some grades I have done below 40 mph and when that occurs my hazards are on too.

Dr4Film ----- Richard

 

[dennis45]

On our 2002 DSDP the center brake light comes on when the ebrake is in use. All the brake lights come on when the service brakes are used.

My 03 works exactly the same.

 

[1ciderdog]

1cidersog - I don't drive grades often so help me out. If your speed of decent is 55 or 60 down hill - between manually downshifting your transmission and or cruise control cant you maintain proper speed and rpm without engaging whatever form or retarder you have? I have done that - but am again - not a "grade driver". I just figured I would not engage retarder unless slow was the way to go and don't consider 55 to 60 to be slow or reason to engage. Help me learn here. Thanks.

Steve
If the exhaust brake were not applied I'd be going down hill well above my self imposed 62 mph speed limit. With the exhaust brake engaged the transmission has shifted down and will continue to shift down as speed decreases. I can not override the transmission shift down gear selected by the Allison transmission when the exhaust brake is applied. My cruise control has no effect on the exhaust brake. On some of these downgrades you approach corners with warning signs advising you to slow to 45 mph (or slower). I going down a grade at 55 or 60 with the exhaust brake engaged and coming up on a 45 mph curve I have to apply the foot brake in order to slow down - the car behind me does not see or receive a brake light warning that I am applying brakes to slow down because the brake lights have been on for most of the down grade. It would be better if the brake lights operated as does Mr. D's

 

[mel s]

IMO as a safety measure, the brake lights should come on when the coach is being slowed by an exhaust/engine brake.
However, the brake lights do not come on all/every coach on when the exhaust brake is activated.
An easy way to tell if yours do is to have someone follow you and check it out.

As original built, by SMC in 1996, my coach has a PacPrake but the brake lights only came on if/when the service brakes were applied.

I have since remedied that problem.

BTW, if you use a PacBrake correctly, (and consistently), your brake pads/shoes will last significantly longer!
The original brake pads on my coach are less than half worn at 132,000 miles.

Mel
'96 Safari Sahara

 

[1ciderdog]

Not to be argumentative but I have a different perspective on the safety issue: I'd think using the exhaust brake is very similar to a letting off the gas in a gasoline engine. With gas you let off the foot feed and you get engine compression to slow the vehicle and you can shift to a lower gear for more braking compression. With a diesel you do not get engine compression to slow the vehicle even by shifting down unless you engage the exhaust brake. So two motor homes going down the grade the gas powered one lets off the fuel and slows down (no brake light) but the diesel using the exhaust brake does have a brake light. When you get to that slow corner or some emergency situation then both vehicles apply the foot brake - the gas one activates the brake lights but the diesel one has had it's brake lights on for most of the grade. The vehicle following the gas powered one knows the vehicle is slowing because the brake lights activate but the vehicle following the diesel with the exhaust brake does not get that warning (safety issue?). My exhaust brake does activate the brake lights but I have considered modifying that activation. If I did not live in this mountainous area I'd not consider a change in the brake light activation.

 

[Pigman1]

Yes, the brake lights come on when any type brake is applied. Watch the brake lights of big trucks glowing all the way down long grades ...they are no on the foot brake but are coasting with the engine brake on. I do however believe that when my cruise is on and exhaust brake is working to keep me at the set speed that my brake lights then do not come on.

Sorry, but that's not correct. Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards give the chassis manufacturers the option to have them turn on or not when any type engine/transmission brake is actuated. My 2013 Tiffin Allegro Bus on a Powerglide chassis (Tiffin designed and manufactured) does NOT have the brake lights activate when the engine brake activates. A previous 08 Bus and a Diesel Bounder, both built on Freightliner chassis, did activate the brake lights.

I believe that to change from one mode to another requires a reprogramming of the engine control module. I requested Tiffin perform this change and was told that they would not do it "because a lot of other owners might want the change too". We're not done with that issue yet.

I believe that having the brake lights illuminate is a safety issue and my choice would be to have it so.

 

[Bryan H]

OP here. Lots of opinions. Great info.

I drive a lot of mountains. I see positives and negatives. Good insight from everyone. Thx.

 

[mel s]

I believe that to change from one mode to another requires a reprogramming of the engine control module.
I believe that having the brake lights illuminate is a safety issue and my choice would be to have it so.

Pigman1
I changed mine so they do come on by simply adding one wire, (with a diode), from the PacBrake relay into the brake light circuit....(the diode prevents the brake lights from activating the PacBrake).
Mel
'96 Safari

 

[FIRE UP]

Not to be argumentative but I have a different perspective on the safety issue: I'd think using the exhaust brake is very similar to a letting off the gas in a gasoline engine. With gas you let off the foot feed and you get engine compression to slow the vehicle and you can shift to a lower gear for more braking compression. With a diesel you do not get engine compression to slow the vehicle even by shifting down unless you engage the exhaust brake. So two motor homes going down the grade the gas powered one lets off the fuel and slows down (no brake light) but the diesel using the exhaust brake does have a brake light. When you get to that slow corner or some emergency situation then both vehicles apply the foot brake - the gas one activates the brake lights but the diesel one has had it's brake lights on for most of the grade. The vehicle following the gas powered one knows the vehicle is slowing because the brake lights activate but the vehicle following the diesel with the exhaust brake does not get that warning (safety issue?). My exhaust brake does activate the brake lights but I have considered modifying that activation. If I did not live in this mountainous area I'd not consider a change in the brake light activation.

1ciderdog,
We could go on debating this for decades and opinions vary. But, Where I find "flaw" in your statement about how you'd like yours to operate is the fact that to me, you're almost insinuating that you'd like a "2-stage" brake light system. The first stage would be for SLOWING, and the second stage for SLOWING EVEN MORE! At least that's kind of the way I'm interpreting your wishes.

First off, a gas rig doesn't slow that much on the grades you're mentioning, been there done that with a gas rig, towing a toad and needed service brakes constantly due to no other form of braking is applied. Second, if you are "slowing" or, even at least holding speed due to your application of the exhaust brake being activated, you are sending notice to all behind you, via the brake lights that you are at least trying to slow down. Now, to anyone who's driving behind you, that means be forwarned, I'm at least trying to, or are, in fact slowing down and, it's time to back off.

Third, if you need to slow down even more for a slow curve, you've already displayed the fact that you're slowing down and the folks behind you know it, at least any normal driver should know it so, any more notification would not be needed. I have been in that situation many, many times. Take the grade just north of Bishop CA. Coming down that grade, towards Bishop, I'm on the E/brake for well over 4-5 miles or more. That means the brake lights have been on for that total length and time. And, I've had to assist the E/Brake every now and then with more braking due to the fact that I was gaining speed more than the E/brake could handle.

Now, going at the rate of speed I was, which was considerably slower than the posted speed limit, and, already displayed the fact that I was slowing or attempting to slow, I've had no close calls of anyone coming up on my toad, not knowing I'm slowing even more with my service brakes. Now, again, we could go back and forth on this forever so, your opinion is yours and mine is mine. No biggie.

To those that do have a form of a "Two stage" brake light system, i.e. third brake light for E-brake and, other brake lights for application of service brakes. Frankly, I'm kind of surprised the factory wired it that way. Well, if that third light burns out, you've got no notice of any form of braking to the drivers behind you and, depending on just how much you're slowing rate is, you could be slowing enough to cause a driver behind you not to see the fact you're slowing and could be an issue. But, if you're happy with it's operation and, that potential for an issue, it's your coach.
Scott