Difficult Water Leak

[Phil G.]

We have a 2005 Itasca 24V Class C built on a Ford E450 chassis and we love it.

This year of Winnebago's 24V model has a shower in the rear driver's side corner, with a corner bed in the rear passenger's side corner. The shower bottom is about 4 inches above the coach floor with that space under the shower being used for the fresh water lines continuing on - to the toilet and sink in that same driver's side of the coach.

A slow droplet leak is occuring in there from - it looks like - one of the PEX fittings. Access to that space is via removing a small panel and then trying to reach in there to somehow to use pliers or your fingers to reach around and tighten PEX fittings. I have to use a remote inspection scope to look under there and see the water dripping.

Removing the shower for open access to these water lines would be a massive and probably expensive proposition ... but of course would then enable an easy fix of the leak.

Any ideas on how to fix this leak?

(We of course keep the water pump turned OFF as much as possible, and are constantly keeping a dry towel down there around the PEX pipes to soak up the water from the dripping.)

 

[rprochnow]

We've had multiple leaks in our 2021 View 24D - almost as if whoever installed the fittings didn't tighten most (if not all) of the fittings enough to keep them from leaking eventually.

One leak was inside the shower walls. We saw water at the bottom of the bathroom wall. This leak was from the fittings going into the shower controls.

Our local mobile RV tech was able to remove the panel covering the shower controls - inside the shower - and repair both the hot and cold water line fittings.

If the leak is from the shower controls, which are far up inside the wall. If the 2005 design is similar, you may be able to access the area from inside the shower.

 

[Phil G.]

We've had multiple leaks in our 2021 View 24D - almost as if whoever installed the fittings didn't tighten most (if not all) of the fittings enough to keep them from leaking eventually.

One leak was inside the shower walls. We saw water at the bottom of the bathroom wall. This leak was from the fittings going into the shower controls.

Our local mobile RV tech was able to remove the panel covering the shower controls - inside the shower - and repair both the hot and cold water line fittings.

If the leak is from the shower controls, which are far up inside the wall. If the 2005 design is similar, you may be able to access the area from inside the shower.

Thanks for relating your experience. I've already replaced the shower controls inside the shower behind it's wall ... in case the leak on the flooring under the shower was from water dripping off the shower control fittings.

However, my inspection scope images show drops from one of the fittings inside the narrow space under the shower floor that is, I'm afraid, just about impossible to get at using normal tools and human-sized hands -> without removing the shower.

 

[rprochnow]

Our first leak had water coming out from underneath the coach under the shower.

On our 24D, there is an access panel on the bottom of the water/electrical compartment underneath the shower that provides access to the plumbing.

There is also a faceplate between the shower door and floor that our mobile RV tech removed to gain more access to the plumbing.

Using a combination of these two made the fittings more accessible, though (as I recall) when the first repairs were done, the tech had a challenge working on a fitting that ran up inside the wall - and we had to make a trip back to the dealer after the first repair because the replacement fitting was still leaking and had to be tightened.

While the V floor plan is different, wouldn't be surprised for the plumbing in that area to be similar...

 

[BCam]

I assume you have an 2005 "Itasca Spirit 24V". Although it wasn't an issue this time, both names can be important

I took a look at the plumbing diagram for your MH and it appears that there are three "T" fittings under the shower, along with two valves. One T feeds hot water to the shower and sink while the second and third Ts feeds cold water to the shower, sink and toilet.

There should be a way get to each of the lines in accessible places. You could cut them and replace them with new sections of line with the PEX fitting(s) in an accessible spot. Note that there's a small access hole near the valves, presumably for valve access. This may help and, it might also be possible to enlarge it for better access. There may even be enough access to tighten the leaking fitting.

Here's your plumbing diagram which may help you identify accessible spots to access the lines:

https://www.winnieowners.com/forums/f265/difficult-water-leak-364568.html#post3923390

As long as all the affected lines are connected properly, it really doesn't matter where the connections are or how the lines are routed. The only critical part is that the two valves need to be upstream between the the water pump and the T fittings. Hopefully, getting the new sections of water line and fittings in place won't be too difficult.

 

[rprochnow]

There was evidently one fitting that was up inside the wall, below the shower connections. And that was the one that required a second pass to fix in our D.

 

[Phil G.]

I assume you have an 2005 "Itasca Spirit 24V". Although it wasn't an issue this time, both names can be important

I took a look at the plumbing diagram for your MH and it appears that there are three "T" fittings under the shower, along with two valves. One T feeds hot water to the shower and sink while the second and third Ts feeds cold water to the shower, sink and toilet.

There should be a way get to each of the lines in accessible places. You could cut them and replace them with new sections of line with the PEX fitting(s) in an accessible spot. Note that there's a small access hole near the valves, presumably for valve access. This may help and, it might also be possible to enlarge it for better access. There may even be enough access to tighten the leaking fitting.

Here's your plumbing diagram which may help you identify accessible spots to access the lines:

https://www.winnieowners.com/forums/f265/difficult-water-leak-364568.html#post3923390

As long as all the affected lines are connected properly, it really doesn't matter where the connections are or how the lines are routed. The only critical part is that the two valves need to be upstream between the the water pump and the T fittings. Hopefully, getting the new sections of water line and fittings in place won't be too difficult.

Your last sentence is the problem ... I must twist into all sorts of uncomfortable positions to get at some of the valves underneath the shower floor within the five-inch high space between the shower floor and the coach floor (what was Winnebago thinking anyway?). The coach floor is the regular coach floor under the shower - with no access from underneath the coach ... in fact, the grey tank is outside right under the coach floor shower area.

I have to twist into various aching-joint contortions to even see the fittings - let alone use just the right small pipe wrench or small channel lock pliers to try and slightly turn the nuts on the PEX plumbing system valves. All this while curving my torso around the toilet base while having my legs hanging out of the shower opening and past the base of the corner bed.

Today I even broke one of the PEX valve plastic tubing nuts while trying to tighten it and I can't pull the PEX tubing out of the valve to install a new plastic nut. Now I have a real problem.

The problem can probably best be solved by paying the $$$$$ required in order to have an RV repairman remove the entire shower stall, shower bottom board, and toilet so as to get at the one or two PEX valve nuts that have vibrated loose after 85K miles of RV trips.

 

[l1v3fr33ord1]

Phil G.-

I had an entirely different coach with similar access problems. Here are some suggestions.

1) Remove the toilet to work with more room (and better body positioning)
2) If you can, cut the hole larger
3) If you can and it makes sense to do so, cut a second hole (perhaps from under the bed)

As long as you can fabricate covers for the holes that look decent, you're OK. I used ABS sheet for that.

I've also found that it's better not to use a wrench or pair of pliers on a PEX fitting, unless both the stationary and rotating parts are metal (usually brass). Hand-tightening is recommended for plastic fittings and ones that use o-rings. I have, after hand-tightening, applied electrical tape to a plastic fitting to reduce the chance of it loosening.

As far as the broken part goes, look for a place where you can undo a fitting further upstream. From there it's just a matter of making up a new piece of PEX with fittings to replace what's broken. If you can't do that, but have to cut a piece of PEX, you have a couple of choices:

1) Cut and splice, using stainless steel PEX crimp rings (the only tool that will crimp in tight spaces), or
2) Use a Sharkbite splice or fitting

I'd attempt repairs before taking the shower out. It's worth knowing your skill level, though. With PEX you sometimes only get one shot at a repair.

 

[BCam]

If you can't improve access, you should proceed with my and Mark's suggestion of completely abandoning everything that's unreachable and re-plumb it all with new lines with the fittings in a more accessible location. An electrician's wire snake might help in pulling the new lines. There's no need to access the fittings.

The link I posted earlier was erroneous and wasn't to your plumbing diagram. Here's the correct link:

https://www.winnebago.com/Files/Files/Winnebago/Resources/Diagram/2005/05_324v_plumb.pdf

If you look at pages 4, 5 and 6, it appears that there are some alternative routings of the various water lines. You'll need to ID which one you have. From there you can locate the best place to install the new fittings, most likely somewhere close to the water pump, which should be reasonably accessible. You'll need to be sure that, if you don't use the existing hot and cold supply lines that they're properly capped so you don't continue to pump water to the abandoned fittings.

Remember, the location of the new fittings doesn't matter and you're going to be running completely new lines from the fittings to the shower, sink tap and toilet. As an example an extreme (and probably impractical) option, would be to install the T's and valves into the cold and hot water lines under the kitchen sink and run the new lines from there to the bathroom fixtures. Despite it probably not be the best option, it would work just fine if you could get the new lines installed.

If this isn't clear, or I'm missing something, PM me and I'll send you my phone number so we can talk.

I don't see any reason to remove the shower and/or spend a lot of money.

 

[l1v3fr33ord1]

Phil G.-

I found the picture below on RVTrader. Based on it, I'd definitely remove the toilet and cut out all of the panel below the forward edge of the shower. I would use a "multi-saw," and trim carefully, so as not to cut into the wood that's behind the panel. After the panel is out, you can remove any stiffeners in your way, making sure you replace them (for strength) before mounting a new panel. As I recommended above, a panel made of ABS sheet is a great match for a wet area.

While you're under there, check for any through-floor holes that are large enough for mice to get through. My coach had two large holes under the shower, and mice found both of them.

 

[Phil G.]

Thanks much all you folks for your very helpful suggestions! And Mark ... thanks for your great photo and comments above ... that's exactly what my bathroom/shower configuration is.

However, this morning I caved and bit the bullet. I called a very good RV repair shop to have them fix it - plus make some overall checks and recommended maintenance in general. I've used them down through the years and they've always done right by me. If they recommend rerouting of this hard-to-get-to plumbing, I'll certainly have them do it so this never happens again.

I'm hoping beyond hope that they do not say that "they must remove the shower" to get at the fittings ($$$$$ probably, if so).

Thanks again, all of you.

P.S. By the way I think I may know what contributed to this failure: My 24ft. Class C was built on a not-required-for-it's-weight E450 chassis, so the too-stiff suspension in the rear probably beat these plumbing fixtures pretty hard when traveling.