Did I kill my start battery? 2006 Sunova 29R

[Skibum-FRF]

Hi all. I bought an 2006 Itasca Sunova 29R with the Workhorse chassis about a year and a half ago. The PO installed a new converter along with the start battery about a year before I bought it. I have the receipt. The start battery went dead a couple of months after that so I took it back to Costco but they wouldn’t warranty it because I wasn’t the original purchaser. I purchased a new battery and then that went dead last November. Back to Costco for an exchange and a prorated new battery and now that one’s dead so that’s three batteries in 2 1/2 years. They seem to work fine as long as I’m driving the rig but it’s when they sit that I have the problem. I moved my rig up at a ski area in mid-November for the entire winter and won’t move until April. It is plugged into shore power constantly. I have to run the electric heaters and there’s no way around that. After doing research it seems I may have overcharged to start battery and there by killing it. The house batteries still work. There is a Trick-L-Start unit in the battery box but I just realized it’s only connected to the house batteries, the blue wire that goes to the start battery has never been connected for some reason. Would this have saved the battery? Thanks everyone.

 

[bigb56]

Hi all. I bought an 2006 Itasca Sunova 29R with the Workhorse chassis about a year and a half ago. The PO installed a new converter along with the start battery about a year before I bought it. I have the receipt. The start battery went dead a couple of months after that so I took it back to Costco but they wouldn’t warranty it because I wasn’t the original purchaser. I purchased a new battery and then that went dead last November. Back to Costco for an exchange and a prorated new battery and now that one’s dead so that’s three batteries in 2 1/2 years. They seem to work fine as long as I’m driving the rig but it’s when they sit that I have the problem. I moved my rig up at a ski area in mid-November for the entire winter and won’t move until April. It is plugged into shore power constantly. I have to run the electric heaters and there’s no way around that. After doing research it seems I may have overcharged to start battery and there by killing it. The house batteries still work. There is a Trick-L-Start unit in the battery box but I just realized it’s only connected to the house batteries, the blue wire that goes to the start battery has never been connected for some reason. Would this have saved the battery? Thanks everyone.

If the Trick-L-Start is working then likely yes. Chassis batteries going dead while sitting is a very common issue with Rvs. If it's going to sit for a while you either need to disconnect the starting battery (after fully charging) or keep some kind of maintenance charging on it while sitting.

 

[creativepart]

Bobber, from your description I’d say the problem could be either over charging or not charging at all. If you are handy with a multi meter I’d suggest doing some voltage testing.

The fact that there’s a Trik-L-Start in the RV would seem to indicate that it is needed for battery maintenance when on shore power, because that’s what they are made for. Why it’s not connected to the chassis battery is sure a mystery.

Until you know exactly what is happening to your chassis battery when on shore power it’s all just conjecture at this point as both over and under charging could be the cause.

I agree with Brian above. Storing the RV without some kind of charging on the chassis battery will quickly deplete it and leaving it depleted will destroy it. Find out what’s happening with a multi meter, then either put a battery maintainer on it, connect the Trik-L-Start or disconnect the battery if it’s going to sit for extended periods of time.

 

[Skibum-FRF]

Thanks guys. I’m up here at the ski area and yes, it is warm in the RV because I think some of you might have some other idea. My multimeter is back down at the house 100 miles away of course so I can’t do any serious testing. The new converter and the Trick are showing the proper green light FWIW. The OP would drive this rig down to Arizona for the winter. I’m sure he was plugged into shore power down there. I am guessing that he killed the start battery too, and the RV shop talked him into a new converter which he probably didn’t even need. I’ll bring the multimeter back up the next time I make the trip but it seems like I’ll be taking the battery back to Costco anyway. I think I won’t even bother installing it till I need it though.

 

[Morich]

I would guess there is a good chance of confusion or possibly the Trik-l is no good?
So the problem is finding which is true!
both are suspects as there is often massive info online and it is often just partly correct, so folks can get the wrong ideas.

Often when we plug into power, only the coach batteries get charged and that is only if the coach Battery disconnect if left ON! Some RV have the TRik-l and when the chassis battery goes lower to a set point, some of the power to the coach is then allowed to flow to the chassis as a way to keep it charged.
Some RV had Trik-l as OEM, but most not but it may have been added.

Part of the confusion can come in when folks want to conserve energy waste and turn off the battery disconnect. They "think" the trickly keeps both charged but that is totally wrong in many cases! So they lose a battery and blame the Trik-l? Maybe they disconnect it as you find?
But that doesn't solve the problem, so they may trade the RV as it has a problem?
I no longer trust folks but like to verify!

In you r current situation, one quickie way to get some charge in the chassis battery is to put a jumper from coach to chassis and leave the disconnects turned on. This may take a little judgement on what size wire and where to do this connection.
If you feel the coach battery is way down, it might draw a fairly large amount of power at first and need big wire like a jumper cable to avoid overheating.
What determines how much current flows it the DIFFERENCE in the coach voltage and the chassis voltage at the batteries! If the voltage difference is high, the initial charge current may be high and need heavy wire!
One way to avoid needing the heavy wire at starting the charge is to first let the RV jump start or boost feature to the heavy lift!
Start the RV engine with the dash switch, let the alternator connected to both battery groups, get some charge into the chassis (LOW? ) battery by running 20-390 minutes! It is designed with big contacts and this is what it normally does, so take advantage of that if heavy cables are not on hand.
When that has run for a bit, the voltages at the posts of the coach and chassis will be near the same, so you can put a strap between the positive of each and let the smaller strap take over the charging current as it will be much lower!
You are dealing with what is often called "surface charge" that is often confusing if not given some thought on how batteries work very slowly!

This is something of a "bail out" deal to get the chassis back as near normal as it will go until you can get it home. Crisis averted until better time to work on it?

Big warning, though!
If you leave this strap on and forget to take it off while camping in a situation without shore power, you do run the risk of killing BOTH sets of batteries and you can get stranded!
Be aware this is wiring around the backup plan of using the coach batteries to boost/ jump start the weak chassis battery!

Be aware that you only need to connect the positives of each group as the negatives are both connected to ground already!

 

[Morich]

I skipped over mention of a handy place to jumper these if the two groups are not close together.
Click this snip to see better.

At some point on the RV, there should be a label for mode solenoid and that has both coach and chassis battery cables on the two large lugs at each die.
Those lugs connect to contacts inside the solenoid when we push the boost switch or when the engine runs. A strap between the two large lugs connects the batteries together here!
Easier that if you have a chassis battery located away from the coach batteries!

Forgot the small stuff!

 

[creativepart]

Remember the chassis battery does more than start the engine. It powers the slides and levelers and many times the generator starter, too. So, you may need that chassis battery while staying put at the ski hill.

 

[Skibum-FRF]

The slides are the problem. I’ll put them out when I’m here unless it’s snowing really hard. That is how I realized that the battery was dead. Today I’m going to jump the RV off my car and if that works then run the RV for a bit to charge that battery. If it charges then I’ll know that the battery is not totally dead like forever dead. If it comes back to life, then I’ll be leaning toward parasitic loads being the culprit. I’ll be able to do a better analysis when I go back down to the house and then come back up with my voltmeter and my battery charger.

Edit. I just realized the chassis battery is a side post. I can’t get the clips of my jumper on them without taking the battery out. I went through the same problem the last time it went dead. My feeble old brain was trying to tell me something. If I’m taking the battery out, I might as well just take it back to Costco.

 

[Morich]

Are the coach batteries in good shape? That would allow you to use the boost switch on the dash , rather than jumper cables to the car! Seems a bit easier if those coach batteries are still okay.

A small point to know when worries about things starting or working off the batteries may help. I find it is always good to give motors and other power hungry things all the chance they can get. That means when moving the high current items like slides or jacks, having the RV engine running is a good first step to getting good power to the rest.
The RV is pretty well set to help us do that if we give it some thought.
The boost or aux switch in the dash area can be used when the start battery is weak as it does a "jump start" from the coach to the chassis.
When you have the engine running the solenoid connects the two groups together and lets the alternator charge the coach as well as the chassis battery.
Once you have the RV engine running you have tons more power to use! Chassis battery, coach batteries and the added alternator is almost sure to be better at moving the slide, jacks or starting the generator!

They put the switch there just for the times when the start battery may be a bit weak!



If wanting to let the chassis alternator charge the coach at the same time as the chassis, I may have made it seem more difficult than needed?
To tie the tow together and keep them tied, a small gauge wire from the small center post (wire LR ) over to either large terminal that has power will pull the solenoid contacts. If you want to leave it on, the solenoid stays operated until you take it off. You can do this with small gauge wire like the size LR uses as there is very little current flow there.
I tend to think of using the large lugs as a first thought but that is often because I do carry jumper cables and fitting them on the large lugs works better than big clamps on small lugs!
But that can depend on what you have handy to use for wire??

 

[Skibum-FRF]

That’s the ticket. I knew my house batteries were getting kind of crappy and I was planning on replacing them before this summer. When I did the boost switch, all I got was the clicking noise, but it was more than I got before which was absolutely nothing. So I got my jumper cables out and jumped the house batteries which had the top terminals. She started right up. I even put the slides out. I’m gonna let her warm up and run for a while. She hasn’t run since mid November. Thanks again.

 

[Skibum-FRF]

I’m still running the RVs motor. I did turn it off and it started right up. So does that tell me that the start battery is not cooked because it is obviously charging.

 

[Morich]

Batteries are so simple that we can miss how tricky they can get!
One of the big things is that they are a slow chemical process and that means we can get the wrong idea if we look at the voltage too soon after charging has been going on. They call it "surface charge".
One way I have had it explained is like we are looking in a hole in a barrel.
If we look while we are running something thick like syrup into the hole, we will see lots of syrup and we may think the barrel is full. If we wait for short a time, we may still see a pile of syrup!
So we need to wait to let the syrup settle before trusting what the voltage tells us?
Where we can get tricked is when we charge a battery for even 15 minutes and we see it reads 13Volts and we think it is really a great battery.
But a common lead acid battery at best will only charge to around 12.8, just the way the chemicals work, that is all it will hold.
So if we see more than that , we can say for sure that the chemicals have not settled yet! You may be looking at a pile of electrons piled up right at the posts and the rest of the battery may be dead as a hammer!
So to get a good read, we need to charge then wait at least an hour to let it settle, then read. A good battery may start at 13 as we charged but after 30-40 minutes may show 12.8. A bad one may go back to 11 after an hour or if we try to use it.
A load test at an auto parts shop can take some of that guessing out of the way as they load it and then see if it holds good or falls facedown!

Tricky to say about the battery right away. It may be good or it may have a bunch of gunk on the plates down in the battery and that doesn't let the chemicals do their thing!
Normal idea is that the lower we let the voltage go and the longer it stays down, the more damage but it is not a thing we can put a finger on too well.
I favor the load test when I have a choice? But when to buy new is always a bit of mystery!!!

 

[creativepart]

We get used to car batteries “recharging” or seemingly doing so just by running the engine for a short drive. But, your RV’s chassis battery could take 24-hours to fully recharge, especially if they’ve sat cold and discharged for a month.

It’s great the engine started and even restarted but your best bet would be to put a good 110vac battery charger on it and let it charge overnight. If it’s a flooded battery be sure that its topped up, too.

 

[Skibum-FRF]

Yup, I’ll be bringing up my battery charger and voltmeter on the next trip. Thanks again everyone. FWIW I skied my 32nd day today. I’ll be 69 years old in 5 days.��

 

[BCam]

The Trik-l-start is a good device that's no longer made. It won't function if the blue wire is disconnected. Hopefully it's still good and connecting the blue wire properly will help prevent this problem in the future. Here's a link to the Trik-L-Start installation instructions:

https://www.rvupgradestore.com/v/vspfiles/assets/pdf/TLS-OEM-Instructions.pdf

 

[Skibum-FRF]

Thanks for that Bob. I had the instructions but they were an older version. Mine shows it was revised in 2016 but the ones you posted were revised in 2020. There’s a note on my instructions that says it was installed January 10, 2019. I don’t have the where’s the isolator information at all on mine. I think I’ll just connect the blue wire to the start battery without going to the isolator. Both sets of instructions say you can do this.

 

[creativepart]

I don’t have the where’s the isolator information at all on mine. the isolator..

You’ll find the battery isolation solenoid behind the fuse panel in your basement compartment. Here’s a photo of the panel, notice the wording that explains that the solenoid is behind the panel.

 

[Morich]

Part of the details on install may give some ideas of where you want to put your Trik?
Near the batteries is often more of a corrosion problem due to the fumes. This may make moving away worthwhile --or not!
As long as the Trik-l is connected pretty directly by cables to the batteries, it works the same way. The question can become how much corrosion and how often do you have to clean the connections? Personally, I found putting the unit in the battery box to be a better choice for me as the mode solenoid on my RV was pretty well tucked away in a side compartment where just getting a look at it was tough!
To put a Trik-l there would have taken well over an hour to remove a breaker panel, install and then replace the panel.

The lesser of the effort question was simple for me as I did not plan to keep the RV for more than a few years and the more frequent cleaning of posts did not seem a major issue when added to the normal issues of keeping battery cables cleaned!
I cleaned and maintained large groups of industrial batteries for over 12 years and I hate it but I also know it is a necessary evil!

However there are some good ways to reduce that work. One is using some form of grease meant to cut the corrosion! I rarely work on cleaning battery connections without going back with No-OX grease as I put it back together.
No-Ox is one of those products that looks expensive at around $ 7-8 for a small can!
https://www.google.com/search?q=no+...9600885008234487,pvt:hg,pvo:3&oshop=apv&pvs=0
But I am certainly willing to pay to avoid working more!

I pay more to get the metal can as that allows me to make better use of the grease.
It is too thick for best use when cold, so I lay it on something like a clamp light holder with a bulb while I take things apart and clean them. By the time I have it ready to go back together, the No-Ox is thin enough to paint it on with a small brush. I want a small thin layer that keeps air out but that doesn't mean it should be thick enough to collect dirt, get on me and everything nearby!
I paint it on, put the clamps back and cover them to seal the air out and corrosion doesn't happen if air can't get to the metal! When it cools, it looks kind of like a plastic cover that was formed over the post and clamps and stays that way until I do some kind of work there.
I spend 10-15 minutes more putting it on but I rarely need to do any cleaning work on the battery post until they get changed out!

 

[Skibum-FRF]

Thanks, I was wondering where that is. The Trick is mounted in my battery compartment under the step. But I’ll still have to take out the start battery and I think that’s why they never bothered to connect it to begin with. It also means leaving the door open to my RV when it’s supposed to get down to 17° or colder the next several days and up to about 28 for a high. Mounting it to the isolator has promise except for I will be working out in snow. I’ll pop the cover off on that panel and see how involved it is. I don’t have any electrical connectors up here, but I do have a complete kit down at the house.

 

[Morich]

This drawing should get you a different look at where and what you have hiding behind the breakers!
I would guess you have the same trick to get to the solenoid.
Check page one for what you first see and then sheet two is what you might be able to see by peeking under the breakers as the good stuff is on the wall in behind!
https://www.winnebago.com/Files/Files/Winnebago/Resources/Diagram/2006/06_d-ser_wire_154491.pdf