Coleman-Mach Basement A/C Help 2008 Journey 39Z

[ACDNate]

I've been fumbling through trying to sort out my AC after a couple of "techs" worked on it to no avail. Jumping in myself i found incorrect wiring and a failed control board. Basement AC help 2008 Journey 39z Unfortunately there is only 1 reputable shop in the area. That gentleman is only doing insurance work at this point, so I'm on my own here.

I've got the new control board installed per the manufacturers instructions, including the additional set of details for Winnebago coaches. That said before i put power to it and hope for the best result i do need a little help. The relays aren't labeled well and i want to confirm my connections. Anyone well experienced with these units that can help?

Each number below and where that wire goes to on the board, or some that go to the compressor area

1. Runs towards the compressors
2. Runs towards the compressors
3. Outdoor Blower Low
4. AC power leg 1
5. Comp Coil Blue
6. Comp Coil Yellow
7. not used
8. Runs towards the compressor
9. not used
10. AC power leg 2
11. Lifeline Orange/Black wire
12 Comp 2 Coil

*Also, per the Winnebago specific instructions, the board connection labeled Comp 2 Coil Orange goes to the Lifeline White/Black wire

 

[ACDNate]

I'll add I'm definitely open to paying a reputable pro to take a look I just haven't been able to locate one anywhere closer than 7 or 8 hours away from me on the Mississippi Gulf coast

 

[BCam]

This is a long shot, but have you thought about seeing if one's al of the pros you've identified would be willing to review your photo and connections for a reasonable fee. I'd think they could ID any issues without having physical access, could cover themselves for risk with a disclaimer, etc. It's worth a shot. Here's one identified in a recent Winnieowners thread:

My Basement Heat Pump Suggested Resource

We have a Winnebago Journey 2005 with a basement heat pump. For two years iit only ran on low speed, could not keep up on cooling and had no electri heat capabiliy. I can not bgin to count the calls to RV Repair businessest to be told We Do Not Work On Those. BY 9ACCIDENT, I FOUND VLRV MOBILE...

www.winnieowners.com

It's also my understanding that these units are pretty much identical to those used on mobile homes and some RV owners have been successful with local HVAC companies that service them. It might take a lot of phone calls but you may find someone, especially if they're a smaller company. I've read that they're reluctant to remove the units for service, but I'd think someone would be interested if you were willing to drive it to their shop for a look-see.

 

[l1v3fr33ord1]

ACDNate-

In the ancient of days I would have done the research and pointed you to detailed instructions on the basement units, such as published by folks like "Ray IN" and Duner. I've gotten lazy, though. I'm also surprised "Ray IN" hasn't chimed in, because it seems as if he's the one who responds most often to these threads.

That said, here's a link to a "Coleman Basement Heat Pump 6535 to 46515 Wiring" thread.

I think you can get service close by. I understand that the basement units are- inside the sheet metal- residential air-conditioners. I also understand that if one can get his unit out of the RV that any competent residential air-conditioner service shop can diagnose and repair it. So, if I were you I'd contact the local A/C shop with the best reputation and ask for them to help. If it's just about the wiring you may not even have to remove the unit.

Let's hope that Ray IN, Duner or the other experts show up, too.

 

[ACDNate]

This is a long shot, but have you thought about seeing if one's al of the pros you've identified would be willing to review your photo and connections for a reasonable fee. I'd think they could ID any issues without having physical access, could cover themselves for risk with a disclaimer, etc. It's worth a shot. Here's one identified in a recent Winnieowners thread:

My Basement Heat Pump Suggested Resource

We have a Winnebago Journey 2005 with a basement heat pump. For two years iit only ran on low speed, could not keep up on cooling and had no electri heat capabiliy. I can not bgin to count the calls to RV Repair businessest to be told We Do Not Work On Those. BY 9ACCIDENT, I FOUND VLRV MOBILE...

www.winnieowners.com

It's also my understanding that these units are pretty much identical to those used on mobile homes and some RV owners have been successful with local HVAC companies that service them. It might take a lot of phone calls but you may find someone, especially if they're a smaller company. I've read that they're reluctant to remove the units for service, but I'd think someone would be interested if you were willing to drive it to their shop for a look-see.

One of the people I have had work on this unit was a residential guy. I've talked to others and get blank stares and general disinterest unfortunately.

 

[ACDNate]

ACDNate-

In the ancient of days I would have done the research and pointed you to detailed instructions on the basement units, such as published by folks like "Ray IN" and Duner. I've gotten lazy, though. I'm also surprised "Ray IN" hasn't chimed in, because it seems as if he's the one who responds most often to these threads.

That said, here's a link to a "Coleman Basement Heat Pump 6535 to 46515 Wiring" thread.

I think you can get service close by. I understand that the basement units are- inside the sheet metal- residential air-conditioners. I also understand that if one can get his unit out of the RV that any competent residential air-conditioner service shop can diagnose and repair it. So, if I were you I'd contact the local A/C shop with the best reputation and ask for them to help. If it's just about the wiring you may not even have to remove the unit.

Let's hope that Ray IN, Duner or the other experts show up, too.

I've seen that link before. It highlighted one of my wiring confusions buy I'm still left with questions specific to the wiring in relation to the relays. If I still have something wrong, I'm fairly confident the issue lies there.

 

[ACDNate]

So studying my existing wiring and the schematics I just noticed wires on 11 and 12 are reversed. Since I do have the wiring supporting the load shedding I suspect this may have something to do with the thermostat blowing fuses

 

[Morich]

No help on air from me, as I have always had a brother who was the air guy! That left it easy to get fixed and not learn anything!
One small point that may help, depending on whose wiring you are looking at for any specific point, is the Winnebago wiring labels.
Are yo aware of the way they stamp ID on smaller wires?

If you can locate that ID and find it on this list, it can tell us a lot:

https://www.winnebago.com/Files/Files/Winnebago/Resources/Diagram/electrical_guide.pdf

However, I should mention that it is quite possible that the wires you are chasing are not the Winnebago wires but wiring between items from other builders like the thermostat and air unit! That leaves us fighting to get the good info from several places. UGHH!
I pretty well gave up figuring their plans when I found they labeled things like 12VDC positive and 12VDC negative. What I finally figured is that they referred to ground as 12 v negative when I thought it would be 12V lower than the normal reference ground!
When I found out we did not speak the same language, I had to back out of that field!~

 

[BCam]

I don't see any Winnebago codes in the photo, just wire gauges.

 

[ACDNate]

No help on air from me, as I have always had a brother who was the air guy! That left it easy to get fixed and not learn anything!
One small point that may help, depending on whose wiring you are looking at for any specific point, is the Winnebago wiring labels.
Are yo aware of the way they stamp ID on smaller wires?
View attachment 1108015

If you can locate that ID and find it on this list, it can tell us a lot:

https://www.winnebago.com/Files/Files/Winnebago/Resources/Diagram/electrical_guide.pdf

However, I should mention that it is quite possible that the wires you are chasing are not the Winnebago wires but wiring between items from other builders like the thermostat and air unit! That leaves us fighting to get the good info from several places. UGHH!
I pretty well gave up figuring their plans when I found they labeled things like 12VDC positive and 12VDC negative. What I finally figured is that they referred to ground as 12 v negative when I thought it would be 12V lower than the normal reference ground!
When I found out we did not speak the same language, I had to back out of that field!~

I'm familiar with the wiring identifications. I too share your annoyance with the language of it. -12v doesn't not mean ground in my head.

The wiring in question is part of the ac unit wiring so it doesn't show in the winnie id's.

 

[RayIN]

Late to your thread. Didn't I respond to this on a different RVing forum already? That thread resulted in discovering the W load-shedding/ EMS system having a short. It was discovered by unhooking the EMS wires and attaching the #2 compressor wires directly to the solenoid.
Yes I did, here: Basement AC wiring help - iRV2 Forums

 

[ACDNate]

Late to your thread. Didn't I respond to this on a different RVing forum already? That thread resulted in discovering the W load-shedding/ EMS system having a short. It was discovered by unhooking the EMS wires and attaching the #2 compressor wires directly to the solenoid.
Yes I did, here: Basement AC wiring help - iRV2 Forums

Yes sir. I've got similar posts on both sites.

Have a new converter/inverter on the way and picking up some new batteries this week. Hopefully that will resolve all my issues.

 

[ACDNate]

Got the new batteries put in and the new inverter ( that's another story) in this evening. Fired up the generator and the AC fired right up first try. Shortly after the second compressor joined the party as well. Working as expected.

Ultimately my issue was multifaceted

1. Incompetent "technicians" who had it wired wrong

2. Compressor 2 capacitor was bad

3. The load management system has some kind of fault that is blowing the thermostat fuse when it's wired as instructed. I have bypassed it.

 

[ACDNate]

Well that didn't last long.

Came out this morning and fired up the coach generator and started the ac. Fired up with no issues. I went on to do some other things while it ran.

Shortly after i heard the generator drop rpm and settle to an idle. My assumption was the coach was at temp.

Nope, thermostat fuse blown again

I've reviewed wiring again and can't find any issues. The thermostat connection to the furnace connections felt loose so I replaced the connector. No changes.

Any inspiration where to look next?

 

[Morich]

I go by wiring and getting the wiring for the three different builders is difficult, so I'm pretty well blind!
But just as simple thinker, it seems like the thermostat and controls are 12 volt, if that is correct thinking.
So I would look at what that fuse blowing protects? Is it part of the 12Volt group and not the main Ac feed for some part of the air?
Or is it in the 110 AC portion?
The thermostat wiring is super small and not likely to carry any of the 110 AC. So that makes me want to divide the problem to one or the other, 12VDc or 110AC.

Just as pure guess, it might make me think the fuse is blowing after the compressor runs for a time, gets warmer and then has trouble restarting??
Are you familiar with the term WAG for ideas of that sort?

To carry that WAG further, it seems the thermostat and any fuse on it are going to be 12VDC? I think of that as being a switch of sorts to close a contactor/relay on the AC unit to start the compressor. So if a 12V fuse on the thermostat is blowing, is it more likely to be in the control wiring from the stat to the contactor or some where along that section?
Any chance of something more random like a wire rubbed bare where it goes into the Air unit and some movement causes it to short to ground?
Maybe a look for weirdness on some really simple problem that is so random it is a nightmare to find as it keeps moving?

 

[ACDNate]

The thermostat fuse is on the 12v side.

From the schematic 12v comes in on the 9pin harness and the 3 pin harness. I am not certain which feeds through fuse and don't have clear schematics of the thermostat.

 

[RayIN]

I suspect something is still amiss with the PC board wiring connections.
The thermostat, wiring to the PC board, PC board proper, and wiring from PC board leading to elsewhere are all 12VDC. There is no 120VAC on the PC board, its wiring connects to relays to control 120VAC components.
It might be a loose connection(somewhere) causing the 'stat fuse to open from over-heating

 

[ACDNate]

I spent some time of the phone twice with Steve at Shelbourne Rv in Cleveland TN. He couldn't get me in but was incredibly generous with his time and knowledge. After some discussion he believed the source of my problem was a short in the lifeline harness.

Routed a new set of wires from the thermostat back to the unit and after some careful wiring it's fired up and running.

One question. The green led is flashing for system normal. The red is staying on. Is that supposed to stay on while the second compressor is running?

 

[Cooperhawk]

Surprisingly the basement AC is just like a house AC and once out and on the ground most qualified AC techs can work on them. We had a 2002 Journey which had a problem and that's exactly what we did.

 

[ACDNate]

Surprisingly the basement AC is just like a house AC and once out and on the ground most qualified AC techs can work on them. We had a 2002 Journey which had a problem and that's exactly what we did.

You were lucky. Most ac guys won't touch it as they aren't aware of parts availability and don't like to warranty work on equipment they don't have a relationship with the manufacturer.