Coach Battery Confusion 2022 Vista 31B

[Clyncher]

I guess I can no longer consider myself a newbie after 4 years, but I'm still struggling to understand my coach batteries. We tend to boondock at Cracker Barrel or WalMart while making our way to our destination. Usually about an 8-hour overnight stay. Last year we started having trouble with our refrigerator alarm going off during the night for what I understand to be insufficient voltage caused by low battery charge. This is going to be a bigger problem this year as my wife has a battery-powered medical device and we need to recharge some of the batteries overnight.

I've done my best to understand the electrical system in my rig, and believe the following steps should maximize the charge to my coach batteries:
1. Coach batteries and inverter are off while in storage.
2. Coach batteries are on, but inverter is off while driving and while on shore power.
3. Coach batteries are on while stopped or boondocking (to run refrigerator) and inverter is off.

Am I doing something wrong? Or are my batteries just old and need to be replaced? The battery indicator in the system monitor panel indicates the battery charge is "Good". So it would appear the batteries are taking a charge, just not holding it overnight, right?

Thanks
Jim

 

[be happy]

First off how old are your batteries? Have you check the water level in the batteries if they are of that type. If the batteries are older than 3 years (not sure on age) I would take them out and go to automotive store and have them checked. Just because they are showing voltage does not mean they are good.
Even with the batteries off there is alot of voltage drain from things that do not get shut off i.e. propane detector, parts of frig.

If the invertor on/off you are referring to is on the system monitor panel I would just leave it off.

I hope more folks with greater knowledge will come on with more help. For greater help the year and model of your unit will be helpful.

It will also help in the future by putting the unit information in the signature block

 

[Clyncher]

First off how old are your batteries? Have you check the water level in the batteries if they are of that type. If the batteries are older than 3 years (not sure on age) I would take them out and go to automotive store and have them checked. Just because they are showing voltage does not mean they are good.
Even with the batteries off there is alot of voltage drain from things that do not get shut off i.e. propane detector, parts of frig.

If the invertor on/off you are referring to is on the system monitor panel I would just leave it off.

I hope more folks with greater knowledge will come on with more help. For greater help the year and model of your unit will be helpful.

It will also help in the future by putting the unit information in the signature block

Thanks for the reply. And for others who come along, my rig is a 2022 Winnebago Vista 31B and the batteries are original.

 

[creativepart]

More info is needed. Do you have a 12v fridge or a 110vac fridge? Or even a dual fuel LP/AC fridge (RV Fridge)?

What is the Group ( Group 24? 27? Or 31?) size and amp hour rating for your batteries?

I take it you don’t have a battery monitor other than the OEM monitor that came with your RV. The OEM battery monitor is pretty worthless in telling you the actual state of charge for your batteries.

Even with “everything off” in storage your batteries will be seriously depleted within weeks or less because everything is not off.

It’s highly likely that you have damaged your batteries without realizing it and after 2-3 years they do not hold a charge well. But this is the time to learn more about this system so don’t just buy the same batteries to “solve” this issue. Or you’ll be right back to where you’re at in a short while.

 

[Morich]

One of the first tools I recommend to new RV folks is a multimeter to test voltage and also make sure things like a wire get from one end to the other, continuity!
The meter doesn't have to be real expensive but I find it worthwhile to buy in the $30 range as the really cheaper ones have such fragile little probes and cords that they break every time I look at them. Not much help if it breaks!

But one of the biggest things to keep working is the simple battery! It has a lots of small points that make it tricky to understand! One big thing is simple corrosion on places like the battery posts and the meter is the best way to test for problems we can't always see.
The monitors are good for a quick look but they can't tell you if the battery is actually low voltage or if it is just a dirty connection.
That can set us up to buy a new battery, when the real problem is the cable is dirty. OUCH?
One of the tricks in the auto repair field is how things work after they change some part. Sometimes changing the battery makes it work but they also cleaned the cables when they sold us the battery!

But for the current idea on the inverter, I cut a bit of the AC wiring drawing to explain a small mystery. Big full picture here:

https://www.winnebago.com/Files/Files/Winnebago/Resources/Diagram/2021/000203355.pdf

AC power comes from the load center breaker and when we are plugged in, it flows on through to power these items. If we have no AC power on the cord, we can turn the inverter on and it "makes" AC from the battery DC. It chooses which to use and transfers it without us doing anything as long as the inverter is on. If you want to use things out beyond the inverter, turn it on and you expect power even when not plugged in!

The bad part of this can be when we leave the inverter on, it is using battery to keep itself alive, even if we don't use the power.
We should only have the inverter on when we want AC power to these items and we are not plugged in or running the generator!
But batteries are a problem and you are at about the age to start looking at new? Depending on your situation, I might favor just driving the RV in and asking about battery testing. Maybe they do it without taking them out and dragging them around? Got a shop with a big front lot?

But one of the big things to keep in mind is that they should get charged as we drive, so that idea may be something to talk over with the test folks before taking the RV. They have tools to put a load on them, etc. and I leave that to the folks who do the testing.

 

[RayIN]

Thanks for the reply. And for others who come along, my rig is a 2022 Winnebago Vista 31B and the batteries are original.

Do as be happy suggested and replace the batteries, they are 3 yrs old at a minimum. Lead-acid batteries have a rather short lifespan in such use.
A load-test is the only way to determine if they perform well. To determine if a cell is bad and dragging down the other cells, a hydrometer test to measure each cells specific-gravity is required. A variation of .05 between cells indicates a failing battery. Such a battery will drag-down the rest of a bank of batteries until they also fail.

 

[Morich]

Rereading the first post brings a question which is often confusing to new users.
When you mention the coach batteries being off when stored? That can confuse if we are also plugged in while store to keep the batteries charged. One big thing to know is that when we turn the battery disconnect off, that can sound good as a way to cut the load from discharging them.
But it also cuts the battery off from charging off the converter and cord! When we have AC power to plug into while stored, we also need to leave the battery disconnect ON!
But, in most cases, only the coach batteries get charged.
Unless other changes have been made there is no connection between chassis and coach batteries when we are parked!
We have to watch closely to avoid one or the other running down as small items like safety equipment are left connected on both!

 

[Clyncher]

I guess I can no longer consider myself a newbie after 4 years, but I'm still struggling to understand my coach batteries. We tend to boondock at Cracker Barrel or WalMart while making our way to our destination. Usually about an 8-hour overnight stay. Last year we started having trouble with our refrigerator alarm going off during the night for what I understand to be insufficient voltage caused by low battery charge. This is going to be a bigger problem this year as my wife has a battery-powered medical device and we need to recharge some of the batteries overnight.

I've done my best to understand the electrical system in my rig, and believe the following steps should maximize the charge to my coach batteries:
1. Coach batteries and inverter are off while in storage.
2. Coach batteries are on, but inverter is off while driving and while on shore power.
3. Coach batteries are on while stopped or boondocking (to run refrigerator) and inverter is off.

Am I doing something wrong? Or are my batteries just old and need to be replaced? The battery indicator in the system monitor panel indicates the battery charge is "Good". So it would appear the batteries are taking a charge, just not holding it overnight, right?

Thanks
Jim

Thank you to everyone who has responded and tried to help me. I really appreciate it as everything electrical about my RV is what I struggle most with. But I’m learning (I hope).

You’ve all asked many good questions that I’ll try to answer.

• The refrigerator is a 12V Norcold N10DCSSR.
• I have 2 Napa 8231 (so Group 31, right?) coach batteries. According to Google, they have 100Ah rating.
• While in storage over the winter, the RV is not on shore power and I’ve left the batteries in the RV with no charging device attached to them. When I say the batteries are “off”, that’s via the “Coach Batteries” on/off switch near the control panel. I had read somewhere when I first bought the RV that this approach was OK. I’m thinking that was bad advice (Google strikes again).
• I did buy a multimeter. Both batteries read 12.33V before and 12.36V after being on shore power over night. Not good, right? But the “before” reading was after being in storage for 4+ months of winter. I took that as a good sign, but thought/hoped the “after” reading would be better.
• I had also checked and added small amounts of distilled water into a few of the cells that looked low.
• As for corrosion, the posts, cables, etc. were all cleaned up late last year after the battery compartment failed (that was fun!). It all still looks clean.
• Regarding the inverter, thanks to Morich for the link, picture, and all the explanation. It clarified and confirmed what little understanding I have on the subject. However, we almost never turn the inverter on. We only use it while on the road when we need a certain outlet to power something, and we only use it for a short time.

I still have a lot to learn. But based on what you’ve shared, I feel like I need to spring for some new batteries. Now the question is, do I take the advice from the guy at Camping World on which batteries to buy? Nothing is ever simple!

Thanks again

 

[Morich]

Yes, it has a tough learning curve!
So a question on the battery readings? To get them charged from plugging in, we need to have the battery cutoff switch ON to get the connection to the converter. Different name for charger!
When the charging is going on, I would expect the voltage to be higher?? So I might question that, depending on when charge was done and how.
Batteries of different types work a bit different. Lead acid flooded batteries are the oldest type that have been around for decades and what many RV still have. If they have caps to fill, they are lead acid!
They are the lowest cost and do fine but some thought on how we each use them may help. My RV have never had anything else!
Some things that may change what is best is a good thing to think about. Lead acid is a chemical reaction of a slower type. They take longer to charge and they run down somewhat quicker than next step of AGM and certainly much different than lithium. AGM is lead acid but absorbed glass mats hold the water/acid differently. They don't need water and attention nearly as often as the venting is done far different. You might not even know they had vents! That lack of venting and acid oozing/slopping out the top is one thing that makes corrosion on the battery tops much more work on lead acid. AGM has no top vents and much reduced watching to keep the water topped off!
AGM also charge faster and store more amp hours in many cases. Less work, work and last somewhat better but more expense?
So how we use them is a biggie!
My wife and I rarely go out without hookups any more. So we don't use the batteries except when we stop for a quick break along the road and that means we don't need much from our batteries! We go state, local and national parks or the government parks in different areas like lCRA, Corps of Engineers, etc. as they fit our style much better than commercial parks.
We like the natural with better management than the commercial and often much cheaper for nicer surroundings. We mostly have a lake in mind! We've not spent thirty minutes in a club house in fifty years!
But when and how often and how long you use the batteries is the big issue to consider.
I like to see folks actually go about the RV thing before going to any major upgrades in the batteries. Kind of like getting married? We need to be sure before we invest too much and the only way to find out is to try it!
For shopping, I would find out what battery size you have and then do a search for price and service as specialty shops are rarely the best on either point!
Depends again on personal choice but if DIY is your thing, getting the batteries from some place like Sam's Club, Walmart or your choice and swapping them out can be great on price!
But that involves being able to lift them and I'm about to go out of that group!
Where did my fine young body go?

 

[Beech Pilot]

Clyincher, I feel your pain! I own a 2023 Vista 29V and experienced all the same issues, even when new the batteries would not last through the night when boondocking if it was below 32F outside. The furnace and fridge drew too much out of the batteries. When boondocking I resorted to turning the inverter off; using only the minimum number of interior lights as possible; setting the thermostat down to 64F and turning the fridge off at night. This would get me through the night, but just barely.

This last fall I changed out my batteries going to a single Battleborn 270-amp hour battery, mounted inside under the dinette seat (so that I don't have to worry about the cold LiPo battery issue). I also installed a DC-to-DC charger and a Battery Voltage Monitor. I just returned from a February Minnesota to Texas trip and since making the changes I was easily able boondock over night without having to worry about running out of battery. Was it cheap? No, but I think it was worth the money spent!

 

[7997redtail]

I’m sorry but I don’t get this. One night of battery power? If the furnace is going I might agree but even then I’d expect way more. In fact last Oct. I was fishing in temps below zero at night. Heater on at night. On day three I ran the generator for heat and recharging. But I could have gone a day or so longer.

I run 2 wet cell golf cart batteries (5 years old but well maintained), 200w solar and go 7 - 10 days using gas fridge, led lights, etc. only real power usage is the water pump. I usually run out of water/black/grey before power.

On the odd occasion when it’s hot I’ve run the overhead fan or the generator to cool the rv for night time. Obviously charging while the generator is going.

 

[englishjay]

Hi I have a 31be.
Even when the battery switch is off there are some parasitic loads on the leisure batteries. Mine never used to last in storage. I suggest you fir battery disconnects at the batteries under the step for long term storage. Make sure you turn off the Ariel booster in the cupboard above the entrance door!
The radio has a draw too - so make sure the switch to run the radio is set to the chassis battery when parked ( if not listening to it )

2 100 amp batteries don't last long- as you can only take them to 50% so 100 usable amps, when full.
If your using the main fridge on 110v electric through the inverter the fridge the element is just on all the time - I cannot remember the draw of the specific fridge.. but its high. So make sure you have the fridge setting to propane - not auto

The outdoor fridge also runs off the inverter.. so just pull the plug out the outlet behind it.
As do the t.v's so a couple of hours in the evening with the inverter on can soon eat into your battery storage.

I suspect you should change the batteries and if there is room ( which i think there is ) fit larger ones....
Really all they are good for is overnighting.
Running the heater overnight on a cold night means waking up with flat batteries.

Bigger batteries are the way forward...