A/C Condensate Leak Under Zone 2 on 2013 Journey 40U

[RickVickAZ]

My 2013 Winnebago Journey 40U has three A/C Units. Zone 1 in the rear, 2 in middle and 3 up front. We live in Arizona but are currently in South Texas (in early June no less!), so humidity is high. We've got water collecting and dripping from 1 of the vents almost directly under the zone 2 unit. I pulled off the cowling and the fins are relatively clean. I was looking for a blockage of the drain but found this condensate drain is much different than my old Class C. It appears that as condensate builds up, it gets suctioned out via a drain hose that goes into the air ducting running to the rear of the coach and out the bottom. Additionally, there are two lines of vents/louvers running down each side of the coach. The passenger side has great air volume, while the driver's side has only minimal volume. The condensate, (coincidentally?) is only coming from the driver's side. I've looked on the Winnebago site and find plumbing and wiring diagrams, but haven't found data on the ducting/venting or the A/C Drain lines. The leaking only occurs when running Zone 2.
It's possible that the low air flow on the driver's side is a pre-existing condition. Most of our previous (short) trips we really didn't need massive A/C usage and when we had the unit parked in front of our house, we normally only had the passenger side slide out. Anyone know of any diagrams for the duct work and drain lines or suggestions? Thanks

 

[Morich]

I think I can get you to "some" of the info you need but with lots of excuses! We had a really great online parts catalog. It was interactive and really great as we could learn to operate it in a way that we could select, turn, twist, and see amazing things that let us trace things like water lines from point to point!
However, that system was replaced with what turns out to be one of the most awkward, terrible setups I have seen! It's like they have decided to no longer help us sort the problems and given us such a clunker to use that we will just go away!
I can help you to a limited extent but I will say upfront that it is not good!
But, enough with the whining?

I will send along this link to the parts catalog in hope that you may be able to sort out more/better info than I have so far??

Winnebago Cortona Portal

cortona.winnebago.com

One point that you may want to look up/verify before getting into the system is the build date of your specifc RV, as it shows different parts for before and after a specific date, I think that date was April of 2012? With that date you may be more sure of getting the correct drawings?
But I think I see which general A/C setup you have with the three units.
Snagged a few pictures to show what I am guessing. Not a good feel but best I have from info that is far from the best!
I think you have this setup for the roof units?

Three units and three drain lines shown at rear? I have read about these being somewhere near the back bumper, maybe something you can spot there?
If we look at the top of those drains, it shows barb fittings on each. Barb fitting with no clamps says soft flex tubing that is just pressed on. It can drop off but good in that it is not likely to crack, etc along the line if not damaged!

But this sytem doesn't show some of what we need like what and where this connects? So we need to look at the rooftop unit.
We get this as a start but they skip a few pieces in the ID list. We never plan to need parts 9 through 11??? Folks need to check their work closer??

But this seems like it might show the drain parts inside the shroud?
Does this look like a drain line that should be connected to go to the rear?

Since it seem to maybe be leaking close to the unit, I might want to look for the drain parts near the roof unit? Maybe these or somewhere close?

But I think the airflow may be a totally different problem. I'm thinking of a foam that is shaped for air channels and some of those may have come loose inside the roof and not letting air flow as it should. Theory only based on what I have seen and not much proof it is right!!!
Maybe one of the little cameras that we can get pretty cheap that come on a long cable to run back in the duct to see what you can find? Let's you use a cell phone for the display.

Life's a work in progress and we have to deal with what we have, not what we really wanted!

 

[RickVickAZ]

It looks like you're on the right track for my system. We're supposed to be in Corpus Christi in a couple of days and I've got one of the Endoscope cameras on order for when we arrive. With a 15' line I should be able to attack it from different directions and hopefully see what's going on.
I appreciate your help and I'll update as soon as I have anything.

 

[klook]

If you cant find where the line is leaking, you can move the drain for the pump onto the roof to stop the leak inside. May buy some time to find it.

 

[RickVickAZ]

I like it! Thinking outside the box. Thanks!

 

[Morich]

We can never be sure until we get there but thinking of the leak being at/near the center unit, that might lead me to consider how simple the actual drain line from there to the back, compared to that mess of connections right at the pump?
The feel good idea is that you can find it leaking above the roof and at one of those connections inside the shroud! Combo of thinking how few connection under the roof when compared to all those els and connections to get it twisted around to get to the real actual drain line, makes me think lots of points to leak combined with a fair amount of bouncing to rattle things loose are likely at the unit itself?
But happy thoughts are often a big letdown that hasn't happened just yet!

 

[Cwby65]

There should be a condensate pump to pump the moisture out of the drip tray under the evaporator core(at least that is what I think you call the components). You should be able to disconnect the hose from the pump to make sure the pump is functioning. There is a concoction(involving vinegar) on line that you can put done the lines to help clean the lines. I had a similar issue on our Tour 42qd. And they tray actually spills over into the ducts and then runs out a vent. Ours ended up being the condensate pump itself.

 

[Morich]

It is pretty sad to see what the current management at Winnebago seems to feel is a good plan for supporting the buyers. It seems that they have gone one of two ways with the online info. They have either made a decision to stop or cut back support or they have gone to such poor management that they no longer do even the lowest form of checking that info is done correctly. The new parts system is almost a slap in the face for DIY support when we do even a quick look at what they are putting out.
How much attention does it really take to notice there is a skip from part number 8 to number 12? Even the new intern straight out of college should be able top spot something that simple!
But if not just poor work, what is the alternate explanation for putting out this sort of bad info?
That excuse would seem to be that they simply do not want to help us repair our Winnebago!
Either case will certainly not gain my full blown support for the brand!
The condensate pump? Not even drawn, so is there one as mentioned?
Seems likely!

 

[DancinCampers]

If your condensate pump is not working, the water should flow onto the roof just like a unit that does not have a pump. After removing the cowling, remove the cover over the interior coil. There should be a mesh screen at the exit of the evap drip pan which may be clogged. Check your drain lines at the rear of your coach. They have an insert to prevent bugs from entering, and they may be plugged. You can remove the screens and use a wet/dry vac to suction the lines. I have replaced both my condensate pumps on my 2021 36m.

 

[jerichorick]

My 2013 Winnebago Journey 40U has three A/C Units. Zone 1 in the rear, 2 in middle and 3 up front. We live in Arizona but are currently in South Texas (in early June no less!), so humidity is high. We've got water collecting and dripping from 1 of the vents almost directly under the zone 2 unit. I pulled off the cowling and the fins are relatively clean. I was looking for a blockage of the drain but found this condensate drain is much different than my old Class C. It appears that as condensate builds up, it gets suctioned out via a drain hose that goes into the air ducting running to the rear of the coach and out the bottom. Additionally, there are two lines of vents/louvers running down each side of the coach. The passenger side has great air volume, while the driver's side has only minimal volume. The condensate, (coincidentally?) is only coming from the driver's side. I've looked on the Winnebago site and find plumbing and wiring diagrams, but haven't found data on the ducting/venting or the A/C Drain lines. The leaking only occurs when running Zone 2.
It's possible that the low air flow on the driver's side is a pre-existing condition. Most of our previous (short) trips we really didn't need massive A/C usage and when we had the unit parked in front of our house, we normally only had the passenger side slide out. Anyone know of any diagrams for the duct work and drain lines or suggestions? Thanks

In my experience it has been a clogged drain strainer. If you have not cleaned them, there are 3 located at the rear of the coach. Open the last compartment door at the back left. Look toward the rear and low. Three tubes from the units can be seen. The plastic strainers at the end of the tubes can be removed by a firm pull on each. Clean and reinstall. If this doesn't solve your problem you may have a drain pump problem.
The drain pump is located under the shroud. On the right side of the front of the unit is a metal box. This is the sump location. I hope it's only a plugged strainer.

 

[DancinCampers]

IRT you ceiling vents, one side is air supply side, the other is air return side. The vents that can be rotated and opened/closed is the supply side. The side with stationary fins is the return side. Each one on the return side has a foam filter attached inside. You remove the vent by pressing one of the 2 tabs toward the center of the vent and pulling downward. I clean mine in soapy water in the sink and then rinsing in clear water in the other side of the sink. I blot them on a towel. You need to check that the foam is under the lip all the way around. Re-install them, with the fins pointing toward the wall, by inserting one side with a tab, then pressing the other side til the tab clicks in place.

 

[RickVickAZ]

IRT you ceiling vents, one side is air supply side, the other is air return side. The vents that can be rotated and opened/closed is the supply side. The side with stationary fins is the return side. Each one on the return side has a foam filter attached inside. You remove the vent by pressing one of the 2 tabs toward the center of the vent and pulling downward. I clean mine in soapy water in the sink and then rinsing in clear water in the other side of the sink. I blot them on a towel. You need to check that the foam is under the lip all the way around. Re-install them, with the fins pointing toward the wall, by inserting one side with a tab, then pressing the other side til the tab clicks in place.

Yep! Finally figured that one out.. The confusion was, there are two types of vent covers and they were, essentially, randomly placed throughout the rig. I realized that the "weaker" side air flow was the actually the inlet. Suddenly everything made sense! Thanks.

 

[Morich]

Looking at the parts, I'm wondering what you are seeing when you describe them as placed randomly?
Are these the ducts you are seeing and they are near the floor?

In RV I think of the air conditioner ducts as being nearer the ceiling as the cool air has a tendancy to sink rather than rise. This shows the two furnace, one on the side and one in the rear and these are heat ducts, not connected to the cooling in any way.
The parts drawings show no ductwork for cooling other than the in/out at each unit.

 

[RickVickAZ]

I’m going to list every step I took just to be thorough

So..... Checked the drain strainer, it was clean. Checked the condensate pump, it's pumping like a champ (currently onto the roof like klook mentioned) with output similar to my other unit. Finally got an Endoscope camera (15') but couldn't run it down alongside the drain line, so I disconnected the drain line and ran it inside the line. While it's hard to decipher, about 3 feet in I encountered some water with "floaties" that lasted about a foot, then the line opened up again and I was able to run the entire 15 feet of cable. No plugs/blockages or breaks in the line that I could see. Ran the endoscope in from the drain output, was only able to go about 9 feet (I imagine that’s where the line curved and just couldn’t push past it.) No blockages that I could see. I guess it's possible that there is a "low point" somewhere that won’t allow "fresh" condensate to flow out. So…got out my air compressor. Started at 30 psi and gradually ran it up to 150 psi. Somewhere along the way, I got some “sudsy” water output. Reconnected everything and it took about 7-8 minutes but I finally started seeing some drainage on the zone 2 A/C. It’s currently been running for just over 3 hours with no condensate leak. I’m really hoping I just blew out whatever was plugging the system. If anything changes I’ll update.
One item of potential interest..about 8 feet in it looks like someone penetrated the drain line with another line, no connection, just stuck it through the drain line wall (short video attached and sorry for the quality).
Thanks for all the ideas.

 

[RickVickAZ]

Looking at the parts, I'm wondering what you are seeing when you describe them as placed randomly?
Are these the ducts you are seeing and they are near the floor?
View attachment 2473111
In RV I think of the air conditioner ducts as being nearer the ceiling as the cool air has a tendancy to sink rather than rise. This shows the two furnace, one on the side and one in the rear and these are heat ducts, not connected to the cooling in any way.
The parts drawings show no ductwork for cooling other than the in/out at each unit.

I probably mis-spoke. There are two types of ceiling A/C covers, one is an adjustable louver and the other is stationary (picture). Both can be rotated. Some were in the right side and some were in the left A/C holes/ports. I believe my A/C system is "H" shaped, with the leg on the driver's side the inlet/supply and the passenger side the outlet. This is strictly the ceiling A/C not the furnace. I verified by using a candle, I could see the smoke get sucked up on the one side. There wasn't enough smoke to see it come out the passenger side, but a candle/flame held up to the outlet was blown out.

 

[Morich]

Okay! Fully understand that all this communications stuff is not as easy as it might seem. And there is a lot of room for error when I try to look at drawings to understand a problem. One of those snags is when there are so many different RV and they do not show all the options on the parts drawings. They may list things in the parts list that are not on the drawings and in this case they miss showing lots of things like the fact that you have ductwork in the ceiling! Where I was looking there were no ceiling vents shown, so jumped to thinking it might be we were not talking about the same things at all!

A small suggestion may be worth considering if you are back on the roof at some point. A flexible line run from each air unit all the way to the back is almost certain to have small dips where the line droops down and those will tend to collect water that may stand there long enough to evaporate, leaving mineral deposits.
One of the problems we had at several of the sites I used to work was the air handlers have drains to just run down the wall and outside. They were a frequent problem when they stopped up and we had to call the house maintenance folks to come clear the clog. They would blow the line out with air but then they also ran a cup of bleach through the line as a way to kill algea that would gradually grow in the line. It was kind of a combo of two things that would eventually stop the water flow. During the summer, the algea would grow but pass water through, but over the winter, minerals would collect on the dead algea in the tube and set up a solid plug!
It may be worth the trouble to pour some bleach to kill any algea and then do some air or if it can be done, force some water through to clear things as much as possible?
Our guys would lay the tube up at one end and pour the bleach in and leave it for a few hours while they did other stuff as a way to give the chlorine time to do it's job before the blew it all out. Lots of these sites had no running water but when they did have it, they also like running water through to try to flush any dead algea off. they were not happay when they got called out for water in the floor so did all they could figure out to slow it coming back! Water in the floor around all the electrical was not what we wanted!
You might feel the same way about water coming out of the ceiling, so what's the lesser of two evils? Extra work now when you might have the time or wait and it sneaks up again?
RV do keep a guy busy figuring out whats going to happen next!

 

[RickVickAZ]

Well....CRAP! Zone 2 A/C ran for 14 hours straight with no problems. Had to secure it while we left the rig at Victoria Freightliner (they had to replace the Chassis A/C Compressor - Wonderful people by the way, Great Service & Great Communication by Leslie, John and Brennan the Tech)
Then we went down to Magnolia Beach (we ran Zone 2 on the way down there about a 35 minute drive.) Got level, put slides out, set up, put my swimming gear on and Viola! the leak was back! Got on the roof and ran the line like Klook had mentioned. There has to be a logical reason for this....I'm just not quite sure what it is. From the endoscope video, I know there's a dip in the line. Is it possible that, once I blew the line out, the continuous water flow kept everything moving, but once I stopped the A/C, the new condensate flow couldn't overcome the water that must be sitting in the "dip"?
As you stated Morich, "RV do keep a guy busy figuring out whats going to happen next!"

 

[Morich]

I would not think of the dip as being a problem as that is very much like the normal trap that we find in most drain lines. Looking under the sink we see a place where water is "trapped" in an elbow as a way to keep sewer gas from coming up into the house.
Same situation should work on your drain but with the fault prone to being not enough difference in the water levels of where the water might set and where the water could leak over the edge of the drain pan! Maybe a combo of a drain blocked to flow but slowly and then when moving to a place with lots higher humidity, there was more water than the slow drain could handle?
One of the problems in RV is that the level is often not exactly level, so we have to keep in mind that there will be times when the high side may change every time we park!
One of the problems with RV is how often things change. You might be parked slightly different, the weather different, or even the tubing may shift just a touch as you drive?
What might be simple to spot in a house, may be lots more trouble , just due to the number of different things the RV does.
If still a problem and you can find the outlet at the back, I might go for trying to blow out anything blocking the drain. That depends what you have seen on how the drain and pump on top are fit, to avoid blowing something up there! A wad of gunk like algea or mineral deposits that broke loose to collect at some point?
Working from the ground sounds easier but second thought might be to look at getting a hose up top to force water through the tubing. That one sounds like it might have some hazard involved if you have two AC units draining to the same tube. We don't want to force too much water in one place to have it come out and flood the floor in a different room!!
It's sometimes lots easier to promote ideas than to make them work! Consider carefully before assuming this is a good idea!
Safer idea? What about using a vaccum to verify that the tube is pretty much clear to pass water? Less hazard for flooding and if there is a clog to suck out, that should just go in the vac?
We have air conditioners in the attic here and one of the bummers of that i we have to pour bleach in the drain pan up there to keep the algea from blocking the drain tube!
The way our residential is set up, there is a pan that has both drains to normal house plumbing but also a drain to outside. But the problem is that they also require a float switch to cut off the air unit if the pan gets water in it and that happens before the water goes out the drain to outside. Seems to be a bit goofy but pros have assured me it is code here! Maybe just a way to make sure companies have a steady flow of work to come out and bleach the drain?

 

[klook]

Next time check to see if the AC you are running is freezing up.