2022 Minnie 2327TB Wiring? Dead GFCI

[whatsupchuck]

Trying to troubleshoot an intermittent open hot lead from the power distribution box to the bathroom GFCI. This comes and goes but this time I've discovered I'm following the factory or dealership folks as screws have been changed at the dist. panel and the 15 amp. breaker power lead screw was found to be stripped and unable to remove the lead.

Broke the wire off and replaced the breaker, but, in the process of checking the lead at the GFCI I had no power. When removing the GFCI, I found that the cable into the GFCI box is a "black" 3 wire. The cable leaving the dist. panel is a "white" 3 wire. WHAT'S IN BETWEEN? I've checked the ground and common leads are good with Fluke meter. Hot lead back toward the dist. panel is open.

The black cable leaves the bathroom upward toward the roof. I've also discovered the main Air Cond. and the furnace don't come on.

It's very hot now so planning on an early start in the morning. This thing drove me nuts on last trip and suddenly all was well. Also waiting on the recall on the cooktop panel for parts and due to my age, may just hand it over to the dealer.

Very close to selling out and moving to independent living and no more travel. I don't bend well any more at 78.

 

[Morich]

We have to start with the info that trailers do not get the online help that the mtorized do.
Winnebago bought out folks who made the trailers and much of the other companies practices are still what is done. So we don't get the info we need to look at drawings for things likie this.
But just as an idea to chase, what and how have you looked at the wire at the load center to know which is used for the GFCI? That might be correct but an easy thing to miss if you are not looking at the same wire on both ends, so look sharp?

Are the neutral and ground wires still both showing ground?
If they are, does taking that ground off at the load center remove the ground to help prove out you have the same set of wires on each end?
It may be a case where they started with one color wire, went to an outlet and then extended to another outlet where the GFCI is located!
One way to sort that might be to find which neutral and ground is used at the load center to ID it.
Then when you have it found, leave the hot wire off and check any other outlets which are dead as a possible place where the second wire takes off.

I would not confuse the issue with the furnace and air as those should be totally different circuits.

 

[whatsupchuck]

Chasing an open

I'm aware of the situation where Winie towables are outcast. I wish I'd known that before I left Forest River rigs. As far as I know, the GFCI is at the bathroom (rear) and the kitchen counter outlet has only a white cable to it that tests good from GFCI to kitchen. It's the black cable other end that's missing in action. I'll go back over verifying the common as it should be easy to reach. Due to the buggered up screws I found, someone was here before. This was sold to me as new in 2023 with a manufacture date of Feb 2022 so it sat on the lot for over a year. Buyers remorse just trying to downsize but keep 15 inch duals. I'll see what happens tomorrow and run the front AC unit.

I've seen under the kitchen sink and it's a mess. Previous water leaks dealer repaired were another issue of poor design.

 

[Morich]

Point to mention as it is easy to forget? The furnace and air may both use the same thermostat and that often can put what look like an AC failure back into the 12VDC that the thermostat runs on!
But the air may still be correct as an aC fail!
The furnace is not as likely to have anything to do with the 110AC while it does use 12VDC to operate controls, open gas valve, etc.

Sounds like you are dealing with a bad one with the problems you have mentioned!

 

[whatsupchuck]

Agreed

I was dreading opening up the partition next to the panel when I closed the door to come in this afternoon. Thinking over the situation later I can see it's going to be a can of worms.

Bought this in Lorena, Texas, and at least have the Donna, TX, RV Station if all else fails. The furnace, water pump, and water heater are all in that immediate location along the passenger sidewall. I'll also check for an outdoor outlet which could also be there. Donna dealer was supposed to look into a problem with the furnace and said it "tested o.k.". Trip to Ft. Worth and back to College Station ended with lots of trouble in a heavy rain setting up in College Station.

As you may deduce, I'm a user of the 130 Toll Road. I'll try to get a good night's sleep for a clearer mind in the morning. Electric drill/screwdriver and inspection camera to be broken out again. Thanks for the testing tricks as I had just thought of that. Wish I had a tone generator like ones used in my telephone central office trouble shooting days.

BTW. I'm located in McAllen and hope to sell out and move to College Station independent/assisted living community. It's not much fun after losing my spouse, her mother and then mine last August. To worn out to enjoy much travel as I'd always planned.

 

[Morich]

Ok! Now we are speaking on the same level! I also have some experience with the telco world! And a tone is one that has really had me wishing at times. I do have one of the little yellow box tones and dumbbell but I don't have the really important part in the amp. Are you familiar with the "yellow banana" ? Or is that just one of the names we made up?
Know what a "chicken catcher" does! We went to Kansas City on a storm break and those guys had no idea what to look for when we sent them to the truck for the chicken catcher!

But that was a long time and whole different world away!
Lineman loaned out as splicer, installer, lineman to get across a state line, back to splicer, installer, toll! Retired in '97!
Any of that jog a memory?

But on a different note?
I've been tempted at times to try on of the tones and tracers from Home DEpot, etc. to see if they work through walls!
Would they have improved enough in the last 25 years so that this would work through the walls at this low price? I have no idea but have been tempted to try one and take it back if it did not work for what I needed!
https://www.homedepot.com/p/TRIPLETT-Tone-and-Probe-Kit-CTX30/314133547

I've got lots of ideas but getting them to work can be a problem!

 

[whatsupchuck]

Found

Opened the cabinet access and observed the back side of the exterior "GFCI" outlet with the cover partially open. Removed same from the wall and found leads were doubled over and pressed into the clips that barley cut insulation of the main lead out of the panel. NOW! To find a proper GFCI exterior outlet or just get a regular outlet and rewire.

I just found this and am dripping wet due to humidity and no breeze. Home Depot and Lowes are very close so beginning search for fix. Existing one is really not usable in my book.

I relate to your background. Hired in 1973 after leaving the USAF in Laredo. Hired as construction lineman but the truck never came so we all went inside where I worked the "frame" and learned the world of switching was wide open. Worked in most offices from Victoria, Corpus and the Valley based out of McAllen. I do miss the challenge, but, became the go to guy for all callouts before learning to ignore the phone when off duty.

Thanks. Beginning search for parts.

 

[Morich]

Yes, Good idea to replace any outlet with the type where the wires are just pressed into slots to cut insulation, etc.
For replacement, I go for the normal house type from hardware as much better. I don't know of any that are specific GFCI for out or in but the type cover to keep water out is often the difference.
If it is an outside outlet and has a cover on it to keep it dry, the same cover should be fine for a better outlet with screws to hold the wires!
The difference is how quick they can put the existing one in versus having somebody who knows how to strip insulation and put the wire under a screw! I know good labor is hard to find but I wa shocked when I first came across the RV style outlets!

Oh, yeah! The callouts?
One of the big reasons for retiring was that I got called way too often during the night and then during the day, fiber and new equipment was making me into a glorified floor sweep! I never wanted to stay inside full time but run around in a truck much of the time. But things got crazy at the end.
I worked SW Missouri for the last 12 years as outside toll chasing trouble. My area was about 80 by 120 miles and much of it small towns. But they suddenly moved/combined management in Kansas City who had no idea of rural!
When you live and work in a 20 story building, it's hard to imagine why a guy can't fix a problem that is "only" 20 miles of snow away!
All the alarms for all the offices and repeater stations were made "standard" across all offices. Sounds like it made it simple for them but I got really crazy trying to explain I had no reason to drive 80 miles out to clear an alarm for low fuel at a place that was only 6 feet square and had no generator! The computer world at it's finest!

Been gone more than 25 years and still suffer PTSD!

I quit the air force for similar reasons?
They wanted me to train to jump out of airplains to take weather readings to see if it was safe for other folks to jump out of airplains!

 

[whatsupchuck]

Thanks to training I'm safe

It turns out that I was chasing a mislabeled circuit. Initially, I had said that the main Air Cond. and furnace didn't work. Luckily, I did change the external outlet as the "GFI" circuit was dead. It was dead because it was on the same phase as the above mentioned items. I had failed to check the bus that fed the two items. My 90 degree adaptor for the umbilical cord had gone open on one phase. Fixing that cleared the GFCI problem and now I need to correct the label on the breaker panel.

I had mentioned that I was following someone else as the panel itself shows signs of being messed with as miss matched and missing screws plus the damaged 15 amp breaker screw.

This could've ended badly!

 

[whatsupchuck]

Replaced Camco Dogbone

Found a new replacement as contacts are broken off inside the locking female end that attaches to the trailer inlet on EBAY.

Camco 55572 differentiates from the whole mess of other adaptors.

Now to try to identify which outlets are actually on what breaker. I failed to check them when I got the trailer. Some unlicensed electrician must've wired this thing up in a hurry to make $$$$.

 

[Morich]

Getting a good clean idea of what to expect is tough when you have no idea who has been there before!
We once had a new guy come into a crew and it seemed like he could go out and clear alarms in half the time it took most of us but then we began to notice a pattern.
Alarms first came in as minor because equipment had switched to a backup system.
He cleared them in record time but then after a while we got a major alarm as both the primary AND backup had failed!!

That was serious business and required bosses to write excuses and such? The air force gets really hostile if they can't communicate with some of their folks who stay tucked away underground?

What we finally figured out was the guy was just hitting the alarm cutoff button!
It left the problem, just that nobody knew because the alarm was cut off!

There are often several ways to clear the problem but that's not good for the guy following you!
Sounds like you may be following one of those? ARGGH!