2016 Forza 34T Engine Heater/Water Heater Switches

[Horse54]

I need some help and advice concerning the switches for both the engine heater and water heater (Elect). I do not think either are working at this time and haven't worked since I bought the rig 1.5 years ago. It is a 2016. Neither were my priority on the long list until now.

The design of the switches is very poor in my opinion. They are rocker style with no lights to tell you if they are on or not. They do not have a feel that they are on as well. I do know that the electric side of the water heater is not working and could be due to the switch. I can't find a way to tell if the engine heater switch is actually working.

I have not had a chance to put a multimeter to the wiring, but will do so soon. My request from others is have you had this problem and what were your solutions? If you have replaced the switches, have you used something different to be able to identify better if it is on or off? Like a light? That is what I am used to on previous RV's.

Below is a picture of what the switches look like.

Thanks for any help you can provide. Yes, I have checked the manual and done a search on the forum. If you know of any previous discussions, please direct me to them.

 

[Morich]

I did a little looking and those switches seem to be a pretty generic item from the looks of the drawings. No bets on that! It may be some form of RV special but it looks very much like just a pair of switches like from home??

Looking at each they both seem to be much the same, with power coming in on one lug, through the switch and going out to the heaters.
I don't spot colors or ID to help sort which but my move might be to take the covers off to get the switches out. Are they separate covers or are they the funky RV style with covers and switch built together?

There are two builds of your RV but it looks the same for this part on either! Early and late same on this section?
At the breakers, it looks like they are side by side on the 110AC breakers.
Maybe check those breakers and turn off before pulling switches out?
Click these snips to see better!




At the switches, I would expect to see the 110AC standing on one lug and then the switch just passes it through to go on to the heater!
With the switch open, I would expect to see some fairly high resistance if I looked out toward the heater. Heat elements are often fairly high resistance but you should see ground after reading through the heater element if all is good there!
BUT? The problem may also be that the heater elements on one or the other have burned out, lose wires at them, etc.?

You might be smart to actually look at the engine heater as I have seen some folks unplug them. One might just need to plug it back in??

Just like playing the ponies? You never know and it might be your lucky day!
Maybe do a check and see if any of that fits?

 

[Horse54]

WOW....Great information! The rig is in the shop right now, so I will look into some of this once I get it back.

I did pull the switches last week and they do look different than what you would see in a traditional switch. Some of that difference is due to the way they are mounted. I did also check with Lichtsinn and they are still available. I have not ordered yet though as I wanted to do this research first. Surprised they are ~$12.00 each.

 

[P and D]

What I do to see if they are working is look at your power panel that shows how much current you are using, and then flip one switch and amps should go up about 10 amps then do the same for the other. This is a quick check if its working or not as like you said, the switches don't have a very positive feeling connection

 

[Morich]

Is this a deep box or one where it sets into a super thing RV wall?
Thought is that I might lean toward going with a more standard switch if the box and setup were not too hard to mod?
No idea what exactly you have but I find the "normal" house stuff is always cheaper and lasts longer---if I can get it to fit the hole!

Since taking it out of the wall and putting back may be the hard part, changing switches would also let you choose the options you might like.

Sorry about how those two drawings came out looking like one! That makes it look super confused! One of the way to help looking at drawings is to sort out what you need and ignore the rest and in that second drawing there is about 90 % not involved at all!

If you have not found the good stuff from Winn, this home site for them is a good place to start:
https://www.winnebago.com/
Under the owners tab and then to manuals and drawings, etc, where you will find both electrical and plumbing but also a very handy parts section.
That parts section takes a bit of play to get used to finding your way, but it is great for finding things you may not know you have.
If you spot the name in the list at right, click repeatedly and it makes the part flash in yellow on the drawing. Or click the part to pop up in yellow on the list?
Lots better than crawling around guessing!

 

[deckape]

Just went thru changing my water heater switch . They are NOT the common switch from Home Depot . These switches are for mounting in thin wall paneling . They have two wings that catch the wall panel to tighten down . Found them at a mobile home supply house , $6.00 They have push in wiring that I found it were hard to remove / install . Went with standard light toggle switch , with screws and used old wings to attach back to wall paneling thru screws holes normally used to attach to box . . Wiring was tight and easier to cut and install on screw instead of pushing it in blades . Check if working by looking at amp draw on panel .

 

[Morich]

If you are inclined to want an indicator light to tell when it is on, adding an LED might be an easy way to go.
At times I have had lights in hidden places like attics where they might get left on for weeks.
I've never gone too far on making these look special as it was just a practical thing.
Drilling a hole for a press fit and putting the LED in the faceplate is one way to go.
Since I really wanted to notice it was on, I went with the larger LED about a 1/4 inch wide as handy to work.
It looks like there should be plenty of options for picking up the ground off something nearby?

But talk of replacing the switches may be too early as the switch may be one of the parts that fail less often than some of the other parts.
Kind of two different ideas as the engine heat is pretty straight , while the water heater part may also involve the board on the heater?
It's all those options that create the headache! We just have to choose one and fight it and keep the second on the shelf until we a clear head again!

 

[Horse54]

Thanks for the comments (and keep them coming).

I just came home from the hardware store and saw nothing like this switch that would work. As deckape stated, the ones in the rig are for thin walls with wings that tighten against the wall. While there is nothing like that at the local hardware store, I do think the feel of the switch would be similar. By that I mean you feel a definite click when turning on and off. That is not happening on the current ones.

Richard, I do like your idea of the LED light. Not having the switch tell me that it is on or off is a pet peeve for me. Being a rocker/paddle switch someone could unintentionally hit is and turn it on which could cause damage to both the engine heater and water heater. Why would they not think about this when installing is beyond me.

My plan was to work on this as my weekend project and that is why I asked the question now to get some insight. As luck will have it, the shop will not get it finished today. Plenty of other projects available to take care of.

 

[Morich]

So is a DIT project of interest?
Thinking of what I might like, knowing the thin walls, leads me to think about alternates?
What about tools? That's always a factor to consider?
Maybe replace both switches as well as the bulky sized and go for a much smaller but better working switch to also get an LED function?
A search for "bat handle toggle switch" gets tons of options for different switches to think about. Maybe you like push button or other types?
But I might think about a small cover to remove both existing, mount a plate to cover both holes and mount new switches in that plate?
Maybe you are a wood guy or do you like a metal plate like brass, etc.?

If you go that way, it opens up a big wide space to fit what you like but no too hard to see screwing a plate to the wall with a small block of wood at teach corner to hold mounting screws and draw up solid on the back side of the wall surface?

Sorry for the "word salad"! I can see it in my mind. Likely better than you see it, but maybe good to jog the brain a bit!!

I started with buying up junk that about nobody wanted and doing repairs that had to hide the damage!
Sometimes a 1/4 inch thick plate of plastic can hide a ton of grief!
Did you know a cheap mirror will hide a hole a fist makes in a wall?

Two small 125 Volt toggles with a digital clock next to them to fill the space?

 

[Clydesdale-WO]

Switches Replaced

I have a 2017 34T, and also thought the switches were very poor quality. Especially for a higher amperage loads. I replaced the switches with a good quality conventional 20 amp switches. I had to put a swallow box behind them. But now it is a very possitive feel and when they are up.... they are on.

 

[Horse54]

Thank you for the suggestion. I hope to be able to do my testing this weekend and this may be the way I go.
I did also find some small LED lights that could be put above the switch per the idea from Richard.
All great ideas everyone. They are really appreciated. I am confident in most DIY projects until it comes to electrical and propane.

 

[Horse54]

Quick update...I was able to test the wiring and the switch. Power is coming into the switch but it only goes out if I trick it by holding the switch paddle in the on position. Lichtsinn RV had the switches in stock so I decided to go with the OEM product. They can be found elsewhere, but not in black. Once I get them installed, I am still considering putting a light to indicate if it is on or not.
Now, the mystery still may not be solved. I still have 2 concerns. One being that why did both switches go out? Two, is there an issue downstream from the switches?
Thanks for all your help.

 

[Clydesdale-WO]

Quick update...I was able to test the wiring and the switch. Power is coming into the switch but it only goes out if I trick it by holding the switch paddle in the on position. Lichtsinn RV had the switches in stock so I decided to go with the OEM product. They can be found elsewhere, but not in black. Once I get them installed, I am still considering putting a light to indicate if it is on or not.
Now, the mystery still may not be solved. I still have 2 concerns. One being that why did both switches go out? Two, is there an issue downstream from the switches?
Thanks for all your help.

My opinion is those switches are of poor quality. No doubt they will fail again. Just my opinion.

 

[RayIN]

I've experienced that some switches stop working due to lack of regular use, which promotes corrosion of contacts.

 

[Horse54]

I did get the switches installed and all is working now. The first of the switches was difficult to replace due to the type of wiring connections. After I mastered that one, the other one went quickly.
Time will tell if they continue to work properly. If not, I will use the suggestion from Clydesdale.
Thanks again for all the support.

 

[Morich]

A rainy day project to keep in mind?

https://www.apollolighting.com/apl662939
An led of this general type, added along side the switch might get you the indicator to know when on?
Match the voltage to 110Volt and choose size and colors to fit what feels right? Drill a hole nearby for press fit and good to go?
Likely able to pick up local to avoid shipping?