2016 Adventurer 38Q Jack failure

[Americanrascal-WO]

Traveling from east coast to Wyoming over a month. 3 weeks into the trip in our 2016 38Q we were departing an RV Park, went to raise jacks and after 9 years they failed and would not retract. Never had an issue before. We were dead in the water and could not move the rig. Got the manuals out and went through the overide emergency retract process. No luck with that. Got on the phone to Lippert (LCI) and walked through diagnosis and maybe a solution-- no luck. They said to get a mobile tech or to a shop. Wasn't going to get to a shop with the jacks down- much less move at all. Tried to locate a tech using Good Sams Roadside assistance- they said they'd arrange a tow. We laughed and said no towing with jacks down- we needed a qualified RV tech. They never did get it. To make it worse we were in a very remote area of Utah.(3 hrs later Good sams said they found one) On our own we lucked out and found a tech nearby that arrived in 15 minutes. He was baffled by the problem also. No luck with any of his suggestions. I was getting to the point where I thought my only last resort solution was to remove the jacks with my impact wrench. I tried a second time to raise the jacks individually rather than using auto retract. Slowly this time they all came up one by one, and we thought we had success. The only issue was we could not get the jacks up alarm to stop. My solution there was to remove the fuse and to unplug and remove the control panel so we could at least move on without an alarm.

We've been traveling about 1000 miles for another week since the event and the jacks have remained solid in the "up" position. Had to find level sites and use wheel blocks to get it leveled up. So far so good. Hoping I don't damage my slides. Not even thinking of using the jacks again until I get this fixed. Scared they'd getdown and I could not get them up again.

I felt like it was a controller panel issue as the jacks lowered fine but would not retract except manually. Lippert says they think its an entire pump mechanism that needs to have a pressure test run. Thier reason, which sounds rational, is that the jacks came up slowly and would not build enough pressure in manual retract to shut off the alarm sensor. Generally they are convinced the entire pump system is shot.

I have thought that I could change the pump system out myself but at my age, a heavy pump package and with hydraulic fluid going everwhere I'm not sure I could lift and mount a new unit and not make a mess- or even lift and mount it myself. I have a Good Sams service contract with a $1K deductible. The Mrs wants me to put it in the shop for repair. Shs's probably right about that.

Headed home from the west now 2000+ miles seeking level sites in RV parks along the way and hoping the jacks don't drop.

Anyone else run into a similar problem?

 

[Morich]

Trying to ask but not insult?
But there are times when simple things are missed. Was the fluid level checked?
When calling for the jacks to move, did the pump come on?
I work with field techs a lot and sometimes it is the really obvious things that can be missed. In this case they may have never thought to check the fluid levels as that is always supposed to be there!

I actually did get myself in a situation where the jacks would not come up and it only needed fluid!
The idea asking if the pump runs is to remove questions of a loose connection that may change with jack movement. Simple things like a loose ground wire?
And then the question of what controls the alarm? Is that sensing pressure or does it sense fluid level in the tank? I thought it was level but that may not be the same model, etc. that you have!
A couple quick snips from AI! Do we trust it yet???

I know those may be bad ideas but this may be a time to consider the silly things that we can find at times.
Wishing you better luck on the rest of the trip!

 

[creativepart]

A couple quick snips from AI! Do we trust it yet???

I don't trust AI yet, that's for sure. That first answer applies to some older Winnebago leveling systems, but not newer systems. The OP's Adventurer is a 2016. So, I don't have first hand knowledge, but my one year newer Adventurer is 100% in the No.2 answer category.

 

[Americanrascal-WO]

Thanks all for the follow up. The very first thing I did was check Hyd. Fluid. Of course with the jacks down much of the fluid had been moved to the jacks from the reservoir, yet I was able to confirm and see there was still a good level of fluid in the reservoir.To be safe-- and I hope not foolishly-- I added some to be on the safe side. I'd rather have it run over a bit than not have enough. Still had no luck. The pump motor is definitly working. One of the bypass methods is to attach a drill to the end of the motor shaft and to attempt a retraction. The shaft turning worked fine but no movement of the jacks. One wierd anomalies was that the jacks would manually extend initally but no auto-retraction. Only after the second attempt to manually retract did they slowly retract. LCI Techs on the phone are convinced its a pump (not motor) failure.

 

[Americanrascal-WO]

Meant to add in the previous post that now with the jacks up the reservoir is completly filled and slightly running over

 

[Morich]

Can't argue too much with techs as they should know far more. But on the other hand, going for full replacement seems a bit extreme when not actually hands on the with problem. Lots of small point that can be missed in a phone call!
We often live in a world where the tech help is not actually a trained tech but just a person who follows a flow chart that leads them to the most common failure/solution.
We have friends who have a son doing medical decisions for insurance, based on a flow chart! No medical training beyond high school! He is not graded on accuracy but speed of processing!

Good time to wait and hope it is something minor like a solenoid only moving part way or other small parts!

 

[Pointyears]

One wierd anomalies was that the jacks would manually extend initally but no auto-retraction.

Could it be that the pump can't fight against gravity?

 

[Morich]

To extend they have to lift the RV. To retract, the RV weight settles back on the wheels?
I would expect retract to take less power then extend!
To find a difference in manual versus auto, I might lean more toward a control or wiring problem than a pump problem!
Since there is only one pump to build pressure and one set of solenoids to change the direction that pressures moves, that is when I begin to question why the whole pump might need changed!

Seems a bit of a leap to think there are lots of small things on the control board, like microswitches and solder traces, lots of points to corrode along the wiring at connectors, lots of solenoids and connections, but they have jumped to the largest single item in the whole system to think needs changed?

Seems kind of like when our car doesn't start or run right? We don't normally think we need a new engine!
Maybe later but not for the first thought!

 

[Americanrascal-WO]

I was crawling around under and inside the pump compartment today. Most of the mass of the pump assembly is the reservoir. Not a lot to the pump. Several valves a 12 v motor, and connections and the solenoid. The pump case itself apparently sits at the end of the motor where I assume there is a housing for an impeller or rotory gear at the end of the motor shaft. The entire assembly is about 1 cu ft. (I am trying to convince myself to change the system myself. Its all the fluid in the lines that worries me) It was interesting that the tech at Lippert arranged to connect to my cell phone camera and to watch and direct my hands with his diagnostic instruction. The wife operated the camera while I was following his instructions with my hands. I like that capability for tech support!

 

[DNC-WO]

I had to change the pump on my 2016 Journey because it was not providing enough pressure to lift the coach. My system was made by Power Gear which is no longer in business; Lippert bought them. Its been a couple of years since I changed the pump and it wasn't very heavy nor difficult to change. I purchased the pump-motor-reservoir assembly online from a company in Oregon that sells surplus RV parts. It was new and cost a little over a third of what Lippert quoted me for the same assembly. Took me about two hours to change it out and I didn't loose too much fluid.

I learned that the pump that I have may be one that is subject to failure. In fact, I met a guy at the Grand National Rally that had the same rig and year as mine and asked him if he had had any problems with his rig. He said he had to replace the leveler pump. When I suspected the pump on my rig to be the issue, I took it to a hydraulic shop and they bench tested it. I was putting out 1,500 psi. My rig needed over 1,800 psi to lift it and I verified that the new pump was rated somewhere around 2,400 psi (I don't remember the exact rating).

I've talked to others who say that the pump failure is due to moisture in the fluid that collects over time. I began replacing my fluid every couple of years. Not sure if that's necessary, but its fairly easy to do. I don't replace all of the fluid, just what I can pump or siphon out of the tank (tank holds 2 gallons).

 

[plg-WO]

Traveling from east coast to Wyoming over a month. 3 weeks into the trip in our 2016 38Q we were departing an RV Park, went to raise jacks and after 9 years they failed and would not retract. Never had an issue before. We were dead in the water and could not move the rig. Got the manuals out and went through the overide emergency retract process. No luck with that. Got on the phone to Lippert (LCI) and walked through diagnosis and maybe a solution-- no luck. They said to get a mobile tech or to a shop. Wasn't going to get to a shop with the jacks down- much less move at all. Tried to locate a tech using Good Sams Roadside assistance- they said they'd arrange a tow. We laughed and said no towing with jacks down- we needed a qualified RV tech. They never did get it. To make it worse we were in a very remote area of Utah.(3 hrs later Good sams said they found one) On our own we lucked out and found a tech nearby that arrived in 15 minutes. He was baffled by the problem also. No luck with any of his suggestions. I was getting to the point where I thought my only last resort solution was to remove the jacks with my impact wrench. I tried a second time to raise the jacks individually rather than using auto retract. Slowly this time they all came up one by one, and we thought we had success. The only issue was we could not get the jacks up alarm to stop. My solution there was to remove the fuse and to unplug and remove the control panel so we could at least move on without an alarm.

We've been traveling about 1000 miles for another week since the event and the jacks have remained solid in the "up" position. Had to find level sites and use wheel blocks to get it leveled up. So far so good. Hoping I don't damage my slides. Not even thinking of using the jacks again until I get this fixed. Scared they'd getdown and I could not get them up again.

I felt like it was a controller panel issue as the jacks lowered fine but would not retract except manually. Lippert says they think its an entire pump mechanism that needs to have a pressure test run. Thier reason, which sounds rational, is that the jacks came up slowly and would not build enough pressure in manual retract to shut off the alarm sensor. Generally they are convinced the entire pump system is shot.

I have thought that I could change the pump system out myself but at my age, a heavy pump package and with hydraulic fluid going everwhere I'm not sure I could lift and mount a new unit and not make a mess- or even lift and mount it myself. I have a Good Sams service contract with a $1K deductible. The Mrs wants me to put it in the shop for repair. Shs's probably right about that.

Headed home from the west now 2000+ miles seeking level sites in RV parks along the way and hoping the jacks don't drop.

Anyone else run into a similar problem?

We have a 2004 adventurer, last year we were traveling and our to front jacks would not come up so we manually raised them by opening valve at pump and using a 2x4 plus tire tool got them raised, didn’t use them again until we were home. Once at home we tried them and same thing. Went thru all the checks and no luck. Rear jacks worked. Long story short I took the jacks off (two front) cut tops off with metal band saw, blow the rods out with air pressure to get them out because they would not manually come off. Took some fine sand paper honing inside of cylinders and good general cleaning, welded them back up and have been working great since. As I said it was just my two front ones that would not retract, with all 4 at one time don’t know if this would apply in your case, just letting you know about my experience. Good luck!

 

[Americanrascal-WO]

Thank you PL and DNC-WO. Thats excellant information! I've changed the fluid once over the past 9 years but it probably could have used it again. I really would like to change it myself but with the service contract I need to follow thier requirements for repair and reimbursement so it probably going to the shop. Luckily we got home 2700 miles without using them and they remained retracted OK. I'll followup later when I know more about which shop isdoing it the pressure test.

 

[Bajasoon]

I don't know if this is applicable here or not, but once at a tire shop they had me put my jacks down all the way. When they finished, jacks wouldn't retract. Called HWH and when they got back to me (fairly quickly), they told me about a 'shutter valve'. There is a U shaped rod on top of the system by the valves. At the time, without a new one, he said to open that connection. About a tablespoon of fluid came out...and the jacks went up. I got home and ordered a new SHUTTER VALVE, and replaced it myself. It isn't hard to do. But that small valve was about $80 back a few years ago. No problem since! Knock on wood.
This was all on a 2004 Journey 36G with HWH system.
Maybe this will help??
Safe travels

 

[Americanrascal-WO]

Thanks for the suggestion. Mine is not an HWH system but is a Lippert (LCI) Electronic system. With Lippert techs on the phone (and on video ) I tried to manipulate the valves. No Luck but it was a try.

 

[Bajasoon]

Okie doke, but perhaps your system has similar thing? Maybe just ask.
Good luck and safe travels!

 

[Americanrascal-WO]

Thanks!

 

[Americanrascal-WO]

Well--- Took it to a RV repair shop after our return from the Rockies and several weeks with no jacks. The shop plugged the control panel and the fuse back in and cycled through several extensions and retraction cycles of the jacks over a 2 day period and they worked perfectly. All retracted perfectly. Go Figure.

I'm now spooked by my jacks and that last anomoly. Probably won't sleep at night from now on when we travel wondering if they will retract when I hit the switch?

 

[Brad Buchanan]

Traveling from east coast to Wyoming over a month. 3 weeks into the trip in our 2016 38Q we were departing an RV Park, went to raise jacks and after 9 years they failed and would not retract. Never had an issue before. We were dead in the water and could not move the rig. Got the manuals out and went through the overide emergency retract process. No luck with that. Got on the phone to Lippert (LCI) and walked through diagnosis and maybe a solution-- no luck. They said to get a mobile tech or to a shop. Wasn't going to get to a shop with the jacks down- much less move at all. Tried to locate a tech using Good Sams Roadside assistance- they said they'd arrange a tow. We laughed and said no towing with jacks down- we needed a qualified RV tech. They never did get it. To make it worse we were in a very remote area of Utah.(3 hrs later Good sams said they found one) On our own we lucked out and found a tech nearby that arrived in 15 minutes. He was baffled by the problem also. No luck with any of his suggestions. I was getting to the point where I thought my only last resort solution was to remove the jacks with my impact wrench. I tried a second time to raise the jacks individually rather than using auto retract. Slowly this time they all came up one by one, and we thought we had success. The only issue was we could not get the jacks up alarm to stop. My solution there was to remove the fuse and to unplug and remove the control panel so we could at least move on without an alarm.

We've been traveling about 1000 miles for another week since the event and the jacks have remained solid in the "up" position. Had to find level sites and use wheel blocks to get it leveled up. So far so good. Hoping I don't damage my slides. Not even thinking of using the jacks again until I get this fixed. Scared they'd getdown and I could not get them up again.

I felt like it was a controller panel issue as the jacks lowered fine but would not retract except manually. Lippert says they think its an entire pump mechanism that needs to have a pressure test run. Thier reason, which sounds rational, is that the jacks came up slowly and would not build enough pressure in manual retract to shut off the alarm sensor. Generally they are convinced the entire pump system is shot.

I have thought that I could change the pump system out myself but at my age, a heavy pump package and with hydraulic fluid going everwhere I'm not sure I could lift and mount a new unit and not make a mess- or even lift and mount it myself. I have a Good Sams service contract with a $1K deductible. The Mrs wants me to put it in the shop for repair. Shs's probably right about that.

Headed home from the west now 2000+ miles seeking level sites in RV parks along the way and hoping the jacks don't drop.

Anyone else run into a similar problem?

Do the slides operate?

 

[Americanrascal-WO]

Do the slides operate?

Yep- the slides are electric motor driven rack and pinion type systems and not hydraulic. As soon as I took the rig to the shop for repair, they plugged the control panel and main fuse back in and the system worked flawlessly over and over. Go Figure. I sure hated driving cross country without hydraulic jacks. So I spent $150 to have the shop plug in the fuse and the control panel.