2014 Vista 26HE Converter Replacement for LiFePO4

[jwcolby54]

I spent one night off grid during the extremme cold, and the furnace ran the one year old dual flooded lead acid battery down to the point where the furnace would no longer run. Just over night. That is a fail in my book. Soooo....

I have purchased a 280 ah LiFePO4 battery to replace the two lead acid batteries. Obviously the converter which is supposed to charge those lead acid batteries is not going to work for Lithium. Unfortunately I am not finding the model number of that converter which I would use to select a more modern replacement.

Has anyone gone through this exercise lately? Does anyone know the model number of the old converter, or even better the model number of the lithium compatible replacement?

I will be receiving the battery next week and if I get no response I will do it the hard way and dig back behind the breaker panel for the old converter unit and see what I need to buy to replace it. Luckily the weather is good for the next two weeks so it is a good time to do this surgery.

In any event I will take a ton of pictures as I perform the surgery and publish the results in this thread.

 

[Bnystrom]

What brand of converter do you have? Contact the manufacturer to see if they have an add-on for lithium compatibility or a lithium- compatible replacement model. That's generally the simplest way to do an upgrade, as it's typically a wire-for-wire swap.


That said, your current converter will charge your new battery, but probably only to 80-85%. So, there's no need to worry about having the new converter at the same time as the new battery.

 

[jwcolby54]

That's my point

What brand of converter do you have? Contact the manufacturer to see if they have an add-on for lithium compatibility or a lithium- compatible replacement model. That's generally the simplest way to do an upgrade, as it's typically a wire-for-wire swap.

That said, your current converter will charge your new battery, but probably only to 80-85%. So, there's no need to worry about having the new converter at the same time as the new battery.

As I think I said in my original post, I have no idea what the converter is. I am trying to ask anyone who has recently replaced their converter what they did.

And yes, the lead acid converter will work but poorly. Lead acid batteries normally hold a charge below 12.7 volts, and so converters used to charge such batteries see the 13.0v "discharged" level of the LiFePO4 as "fully charged" which it is for lead acid and so will not necessarily turn on the charger. Why would it? The battery is "charged". If the battery is ever fully discharged down to 12 volts for example, then the charger will fire up and start charging the battery. But by this time the Lithium battery is completely exhausted to the point where it could not support a high current load. That does not damage the lithium battery but it certainly is not good for an inverter trying to supply a microwave oven or coffee pot for example.

It is far better to just swap out the lead acid converter for a lithium converter designed for the job.

 

[Bnystrom]

There has to be some labeling on the converter that at least has the brand, the model and the basic I/O specifications, as it's required by law. There should also be some labeling on the power center with at least the brand name. If nothing is visible from the outside, pull the power center out so you can find the label.

I don't dispute that you should upgrade your converter, but your existing converter should charge your lithium battery to around 13.6v.

 

[creativepart]

As I think I said in my original post, I have no idea what the converter is. I am trying to ask anyone who has recently replaced their converter what they did.

Winnebago installs many different Converters on many different RVs. So it’s not as easy to tell you what you have as you seem to believe. However, as stated above, you can determine this with certainty for yourself.

Open the door on your Power Center, it is where all your circuit breakers and fuses are.

I don’t know where yours is in your RV but in a large number of RVs it is just below your refrigerator door. No guarantees that’s where yours is. Hopefully, you know where your circuit breakers are.

Once you open the door covering the Power Center you’ll find the make and model number for your current Converter right there. Then you can do the research about what model you need, and how to replace the existing Converter/Charger.

 

[jwcolby54]

Thanks to all who have responded

I just assumed that a given model / year would have the same converter. We all know about assume...I will unplug the RV and pull the breaker panel out to see what I can see.

I am the 4th owner of this RV. I REALLY love the RV, it is everything I was hoping for in a vehicle I can retire into in a couple of years, I had seen these and other short class A RVs and just assumed I wouldn't be able to find one in my price range. This one fell on my head so to speak. A GOD thing IMO. In any event I got it professionally inspected (with an 80 page report) and my local mechanic went over it and it is in stellar condition. So I have the time to fix those things the inspector found, get solar up on the roof and just generally enjoy it, and learn all about it, in the years between now and retirement.

have a 21 year old special needs daughter who is "going camping" with dad to places like the parking lot behind my church, the parking lot at her favorite Mexican restaurants, Cracker Barrel etc. Fun times in River City. At my age one can't spend enough time with the kids.

Again thanks for any and all responses. If anyone has actually done this upgrade do speak up with your experiences.I will post pictures of my experience.

 

[jwcolby54]

Further to the battery upgrade

...

Open the door on your Power Center, it is where all your circuit breakers and fuses are.

I don’t know where yours is in your RV but in a large number of RVs it is just below your refrigerator door. No guarantees that’s where yours is. Hopefully, you know where your circuit breakers are.

Once you open the door covering the Power Center you’ll find the make and model number for your current Converter right there. Then you can do the research about what model you need, and how to replace the existing Converter/Charger.

I don't know where the converter is located either. The batteries are under the top step coming in the side door. The breaker panel is on the left right there, so I assumed that the converter would be in there somewhere close by.

While I am in doing this stuff I would like to put an MPPT charger in, routed straight to the battery, Then I want to place a solar panel plug-in through the skin of the rv so I can plug in free standing portable panels.

The previous owner purchased a 3600 watt Ecoflow Delta Pro which I inherited. There is a storage area just to the left of the door where this Delta Pro sits. That storage box is directly adjacent to the batteries under the stairs, and immediately under the breaker panel. That seems a good place to do all things solar.

 

[Bnystrom]

Funny, we're also the fourth owners of our 2010 View, which we found through a rather serendipitous process. Despite the fact that it had been thoroughly debugged and was in pretty much pristine condition, there are always things that need attention. It has been a major learning experience, something you're seeing as well. I've found that as long as you're willing to learn, you'll find there are plenty of people equally willing to help. I've also enjoyed the many upgrade and customization projects we've done to make it work better for our needs.

Essentially, I regard it as an ongoing project, punctuated by camping trips to test the changes.

Seriously, it's enabled us to discover some beautiful places to explore, even relatively close to home. Even a weekend away is a major relief from normal life and we always come back refreshed. It's great!

 

[jwcolby54]

Love the forum

Just reading through the forum has been cool. A whole forum just for the various Vista models.

 

[jwcolby54]

Utilizing the existing converter

...

I don't dispute that you should upgrade your converter, but your existing converter should charge your lithium battery to around 13.6v.

I will almost certainly utilize the existing converter as I figure out the replacement. My new battery has a Bluetooth link and phone app so I can see the charging (I think) . I'll post in this thread how the existing converter works.

13.6 volts is pretty much fully charged. One problem however is that cell balancing usually occurs at the very top end of the charge, thus without a Lithium aware charger the battery would never balance the cells internally. It will be interesting to see if the Bluetooth app allows me to see the individual cell data. If so I could watch for any drift between the cells. I do have a plain old charger from Wally world which has a Lithium setting and does charge to 14.6 volts. Which means I could once a year or so use that charger to fully charge the battery. If that works then I have other things to spend my money on.

 

[Bnystrom]

That's an interesting point about balancing. Does the battery you're purchasing have active balancing, or is it strictly passive? The former should balance the cells regardless of the voltage. At least it does with the SFK batteries I'm using. The app also displays the individual cell voltages, making it easy to check the balance.

 

[Morich]

You will need to look carefully at what you have as there were several different builds and different dates on your RV. That means the later builds may have options to set for lead acid versus lithium! Possible what you have can be set for the change??

One possible item I ran across is the Progressive Dynamics 4000 series. This is one site for info from a dealer I have liked:
https://www.etrailer.com/RV-Power-Converter/Progressive-Dynamics/PD4045KA.html
A search for that brand can turn up the company site and you then find lots of info on things like how to find the model number on each !
https://www.progressivedyn.com/
Some info from this site which I picked as starting points?
Click these snips for better view!

Both this dealer as well as the Progressive Dynamics site have several help options listed on their sites. Far safer to get the info direct from them!
Us rookies out here may have some ideas but nothing as deep and trustworthy as the guys who do it every day all day!

Way too much info for us to read and pass along, so far better to do the search and compare like looking at what you have compared to their pictures!

 

[jwcolby54]

That's an interesting point about balancing. Does the battery you're purchasing have active balancing, or is it strictly passive? The former should balance the cells regardless of the voltage. At least it does with the SFK batteries I'm using. The app also displays the individual cell voltages, making it easy to check the balance.

How it balances is determined by the BMS in a given battery so it may be different from battery to battery. Just be aware that it isn't a given that it will balance at a lower voltage. I was watching a Will Prowse video the other day where he stressed that charging to the full 14.6v is critical for long term battery health. I pretty much trust Will.

 

[Bnystrom]

How it balances is determined by the BMS in a given battery so it may be different from battery to battery. Just be aware that it isn't a given that it will balance at a lower voltage. I was watching a Will Prowse video the other day where he stressed that charging to the full 14.6v is critical for long term battery health. I pretty much trust Will.

We have 2, 300Ah batteries and the cells within each stay near-perfectly balanced all of the time. When they're off at all, it doesn't take long for them to even out with the active balancing turned on. Sometimes there will be an imbalance between the two batteries, but that also tends to even out over time.

With 600 Ah, we don't need to recharge often, but I make it a point to do a full charge at the beginning of every trip and check that all eight cells between the two batteries are at the same voltage.

 

[jwcolby54]

...

Both this dealer as well as the Progressive Dynamics site have several help options listed on their sites. Far safer to get the info direct from them!
Us rookies out here may have some ideas but nothing as deep and trustworthy as the guys who do it every day all day!

What I am certain of is that in 2014 LiFePO4 wasn't really a thing so it is highly unlikely my converter will correctly charge a Lithium battery.

I have owned lithium batteries which I installed in my previous Scamp 19'. It had an old PD converter with a dongle to force it to go into a charge and I used that for years. They make a good product and I may well just swap whatever I have for one of those.

 

[jwcolby54]

On the subject of charging

My perspective on all this stuff is that:

I have or will have spent a lot of money on my retirement vehicle. I am not a wealthy man but it makes sense to me to try and build an 'install and forget' system.

As such it makes sense to me, if I am going to replace my batteries with Lithium, I will go the final step to get a converter that just works.

I am looking at tightly integrating an EcoFlow Delta Pro to provide all of and only the AC side of the house electric. I will have Lithium batteries for the coach to provide all of the DC side of the house electric.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DJ2VHKLS?ref_=pe_123509780_1038749300_fed_asin_title&th=1

So how to charge everything, specifically when off grid.

 

[EverettO]

You will need to look carefully at what you have as there were several different builds and different dates on your RV. That means the later builds may have options to set for lead acid versus lithium! Possible what you have can be set for the change??

One possible item I ran across is the Progressive Dynamics 4000 series. This is one site for info from a dealer I have liked:
https://www.etrailer.com/RV-Power-Converter/Progressive-Dynamics/PD4045KA.html
A search for that brand can turn up the company site and you then find lots of info on things like how to find the model number on each !
Home 3 - Progressive Dynamics
Some info from this site which I picked as starting points?
Click these snips for better view!

Both this dealer as well as the Progressive Dynamics site have several help options listed on their sites. Far safer to get the info direct from them!
Us rookies out here may have some ideas but nothing as deep and trustworthy as the guys who do it every day all day!

Way too much info for us to read and pass along, so far better to do the search and compare like looking at what you have compared to their pictures!

Thank you for this comment! I recently installed Lithium batts and had resigned myself to live with my old converter for awhile and just get 80-90% charge on my batteries. I looked and found a previous owner had updated my 2008 Itasca Sunova to a Progressive Dynamics unit. Some further research and an email to PD helped me discover I just needed to add a jumper to upgrade to 14.4 volts charging! You rock!