2011 Itasca SunStar Slides Show Engage Park Brake Warning

[Morich]

Good progress when we make any at all?
No worries about getting back to it when it fits! I don't mind working in spurts but feel better if the spurts go in the right direction!
I'll give the new info a look and see if it tells us any good stuff!

 

[Morich]

I've about run out of ways to get good info on this as it seems the mpdule uses different terms and wire ID than Winnebago. I ran through putting the Winnebago wire ID to their decoder list and none that jumped out to say it brings the signal from the park brake that I could relate to anything on the module listing. The module info does seem to have a pin or two to question but not really what I hoped to find. If we start with assuming this center plug is what they call J1 due to the other not havingthat many pins, and if thereis a nub of plastic that might be used to make sure the plug is inserted the correct way(?) I think you might find pin 8 is right next to that nub and may be one to test.

They call that pin 8 "parking brake input" and that might be a logical name for the signal that tells if brake is set?
If that tends to fit what you see, maybe you can test there for battery or ground that changes when the park brake is set or released? If you don't see battery or ground changing at that pin, it may only mean that the wire from the brake is open and we don't know where? Double UGH!! Under the dash but where?

But looking deeper we may get different info or it may be they show a new module that is throwing the online info off a bit?

Looking at the picture above, we get input on pin 8 but on this last drawing it shows on pin 7 with 8 empty??? So which is right and do you have the older that has now been replaced with the new version?
If you can sort that question, they may have told us some good test results on this last picture. But hat amoung of confusion is not really making things very clear to say we are testing it correctly.
Seems logical that you shopuld see and input from the park brake and I night guess that would be battery but that is a guess. I might go with the idea of looking for battery on either pin 7 or pin 8 if you have a wire there. Setting and releasing the brake should make what you find on the correct pin change, wehter it is sending battery or ground, we micght expect a change. But that comes with the idea that the wire may not be good all the way tot he switch and still leaves su guessing way more thatn needed, if we could get the good straight story on how it is wired.
With this type module the only way we can go is test the in and out as there is no way to deal with the solid state stuff inside other than start swapping and that is likely way too much to do.
One big issue I keep coming back to is why BOTH slides are bad and we have two different modules with not finding anything on how they are tied together or where both get the signal from one brake pedal??

 

[Alta Sierra]

MORICH, Please accept my apologies for not responding to your latest text sooner. I 'Thank You' again for al that you have done I have been working on the motorhome, and I am still "Scratchin' My Head" regarding the slide-outs issue. I have yet to find a diode or an inline fuse holder that connects to the control module wiring for the park brake signal. Last Saturday and Monday, I was in town for most of the day, and Sunday was "The Lord's Day" so I don't do any work on that day... so nothing got done on the motorhome. Yesterday I spent all day out there, and I did not get to my e-mails until this morning. Your latest post brought up some very good points of direction, so I will check them out today, and give you an update later this evening. I myself am pretty much a "Redneck In A Rock & Roll Bar": when it comes to electronics. My brother in Omaha is much more educated and informed on them than I am, and he has been helping me via phone calls and e-mails on this issue.

Yesterday, I did some testing of the control modules, and then I took the crescent-shaped plastic cowl cover off of the dashboard behind the instrument cluster to once again open up the access to that 'wiring mess' under there. I did discover the gray wire that leads to the HWH Touch - Panel Controlled 625S (Note the 'S' suffix) Series Hydraulic Leveling System, and an internet search led me to its Service manual at this link: https://www.hwhcorp.com/ml41240.pdf

On pages 34 & 35 of that service manual they show the wiring diagrams for my coach's leveling system. I also found the signal wire from the parking brake switch that leads to the white wire that enters the 5-Pin MTA plug that connects to the back of but-connector crimped to the white wire that continues to the HWH leveler's touch-control panel the that I operate to raise & lower the coach's hydraulic levelers. That gray signal wire is enters a crimp-style butt connector to connects it to the white wire that goes into the back of the leveler's touch-control panel. Where those other wires on that 5 MTA plug go, I have not been able to determine, even with the service manual's wiring diagrams. I do know that there are no other connections between the gray wire coming from the park brake switch and connecting into the white wire that enters the 5-pin MTA plug on the back of the leveler's touch-control pad. Where Winnebago connected that park brake signal wire at the front of the motorhome is still a mystery.
The second photo shows the gray & white wire connected together and labeled "Park Brake Switch"

 

[Alta Sierra]

Morich, I mistakenly forgot to post the previous update yesterday morning, before I went out to work on the motorhome. I just posted it now.

Once again, the "Power Gear" part number on both control modules (there is one for each slide-out) is: Part # 1510000151. Anyway, yesterday I did follow your suggestions, and here is what I found: on the J-1 connector 'plug', pin #8 is constantly showing 5 VDC whether the engine is on or off, and also whether or not the park brake is set (with both the engine off & engine on) . Pin #1 is not used... there is no wire in that socket. ther is no voltage present at any of the other pin #'s in that plug.

"Detail A" "Battery Power Connector" on the drawing is showing what should: Pin #1; 12 VDC, Pin #2: Ground, Pin #3: Ground, Pin #4: 12 VDC. NOTE: In the drawing below, the 'nub' that you asked about is the locking tab for each plug to secure it in it's female socket on the control module, and it is shown for determining the proper orientation of the plug in order to test the individual pin sockets in the plug correctly according to their individual numbers.

This image below shows the wires from the park brake switch leaving the plug on the switch and entering a much larger wiring harness which contains the wiring for the motorhome's engine ECM...

The photo below shows the top view of the park brake switch wiring entering into the motorhome's ECM wiring harness... unfortunately, that 'conveniently accessible' black rectangular inline fuse holder contains a 5 AMP fuse, and labels on the two-wire combination for that plug identifies the two wires: Orange for "Ignition" and red for "ACC." The 5 AMP fuse was tested and it is fine.

The search for the source of the erroneous "Engage Park Brake" LED that lights up on both of the control panels to operate the two slides, and prevent both of them ( when being operated one at a time) remains a mystery... the search effort for its faulty point of connection to the park brake switch's position goes on.

For the remainder of today, I will be
installing a 're-built' power rack & pinion steering gear on my 2001 Subaru Forester.

 

[Morich]

Just got home to swap some thinking with a fella in Nebraska!
Not much I could offer there but now I may have a smaller bit of "something that may not help too much or be big??
I may have mentioned Winnebago does stamp ID on smaller wires.
In one of you rpictures I see an ID that might tell you somehting about there some of those wires might lead? Blind sow finds an acorn style thinking?
Snipping and turning part of the wire picture over we see this?

If we go to the wire ID list here:

https://www.winnebago.com/files/files/winnebago/resources/diagram/electrical_guide.pdf

We can find wire PPC and several other which go to the modules!

Maybe keep it in mind to maybe get an idea for one specific wire that would show going to the brake? Maybe taking those Sundays off has built up some grace?
Other than pulling your leg, I'm not getting very far!
A small idea on the white wire with the inline splice? Maybe worth pushing a straight pin through the insulation to get contact to test that you find the same on each side of the crimp connector. They can go bad in where we can't see and make it really easy to miss something simple-- if that would seem to be the correct wire to get signal from pedal to module? Maybe a hint at which would be ground at least?

 

[Morich]

Different thought? On that pin 8 of the ten pin connector they call detail "B" is there a wire ID that you can read and sort out on the wire ID chart as something going from this module to anything related to the park brake pedal? Maybe the info is there but we are not spotting how each of the two name a wire? Their wire info says "park brake input' and that would seem to mean the signal from the park brake being on, in my thought.
If you could verify any Winnebago wiring ID on that one specific wire, that should lead us to the "from" and "to" locations of that wire, helping us to know we are chasing the correct wire?

 

[Morich]

On a seperate path? Is there anybody following this chase that is computer savvy enough to know how to convert/change /rearrange the list we get from Winnebago to what I call "searchable'? I'm fairly sure there is a mehthod as I have it searchable on my machine, but I was not the one who did the trick.

https://www.winnebago.com/Files/Files/Winnebago/Resources/Diagram/electrical_guide.pdf

There are something like only 15-20 ID which say they go to park brake, so cutting the chase that much might be a big help?
If anybody can do the magic or tell us how, that might be a big step forward, as it would let us then hit CRTL+F an dsearch for park brake as a way for OP to cut the chase and manual work of sorting the whole 80 pages!
HELP?

 

[Alta Sierra]

Hi, My Thanks again to all who have commented for the comments and kind intentions to help. Life has gotten in the way the past few days, and I have been unable to get back to work on the motorhome.

Update: I am still 'chasing my tail" regarding the erroneous "Engage Park Brake" issues on my 2011 ITASCA SunStar Model IFE30W motor home's slide-outs Control Panels. On July 23rd, I contacted "Lippert Components" (who acquired Power Gear in 2014) by phone, and they sent me the PDF wiring documents for the Power Gear Part # 1510000151 Revision 'OG' Control Boxes That "REV. OG" appears in the title boxes at the lower right hand corner of the two attached PDF documents).. Unfortunately, both of the slide-outs on my motorhome are controlled by their individual Power Gear Part# 1510000151 Revision 'OF' control boxes.

I just phoned Lippert again this morning, hoping to acquire the correct wiring PDF's for my Part# 1510000151 Revision OF' control boxes, only to discover that they don't have the wiring PDF's for "Revision 'OF'. Evidently, no one else does, either, at least all of my internet searches have turned up nothing regarding the "Power Gear Part#151000151 Revision OF" control boxes.

So, early tomorrow morning, I hope to begin peeling back the black, corrugated, flexible plastic tubing on the wire harness at the 10-pin connector that plugs into the control box inside of the forward curbside cargo compartment to looking for Winnebago's yellow wire coded either 'KE' or 'DL', and to exactly what number of pin (according to the 'incorrect' Revision G PDF image,, that should be pin #8 "Parking Brake Input". I have been told by another source that it could be either wire code, and also that there may be a black plastic inline 5 AMP fuse holder in the wiring under the coach and leading into to the two slide-outs individual control panels that will be identified with the letters "KE" or "DL".

I also know that the ground sensing wire from the parking brake's switch which is normally open (no signal) when the parking brake is not set and normally 'on' when the park brake is set. According to FORD'S F53 motorhome chassis wiring diagram, that park brake switch, when 'closed' (with the engine on) sends a ground signal to the "Parking Brake LED" in the instrument cluster, and lighting it up when the engine is running. And so it goes...

 

[Morich]

I have nothing that would make me think KE or DL would be involved but that is from the Winnebago ID list and I have no better ideas at this point.
Peeling back that wire loom cover may be the more reliable way to go for getting some idea of where some of the wires go.
I might start with the idea that many revisions of circuit boards are small things that may not change most of the pinouts on plugs, so chasing pin 8 "may" be some help???
If you can ever find the correct wire on either end, one idea that might help would be to put a tone on the wire where found and hope that tone could be traced or found at other points.
I did a lot of that sort of chase way back and had the tools like tone and amp to do the tracing. Sometimeas it worked and sometimes not but when it worked we could chase wires even when they ran up the spaces in stacked block walls.
But when I retired I managed to lose the amp, leaving me with only the tone and headset. Pretty much useless as I have to actually touch the wire to get the tone!
You can verify you've found the right wire but only AFTER you find it!
Bottom line? Not much help!

 

[Alta Sierra]

I received the following Document with more information from Lippert late this morning. I was told that it is a "KWIKEE"-sourced document. I edited the document, and it is the first image that is attached... it gives more information regarding the ground signal from the Park Brake Switch in its upper right corner, as the ground signal from the set Park Brake Switch first goes to the "key switch" (on the motor home's inside wall above the slide outs Touch Pads(?), and then on to the control panels for the two slide-outs. Note the added descriptions of pin #'s 2-10 and their individual functions.

The second photo shows the controls on the motor home's inside wall with the key switch 'on', and the third photo shows the key switch and control panels with the switch 'off' and the key removed.

 

[Morich]

Okay, this lokks like some of the details I find when two different people look at the same thing and write up what they think of as happening. Like two people looking at the same pipe? One may say it goes uphill while the guy at teh other ends says it goes downhill!
Different view of the same thing!
Unfortunately neither are looking at the whole that we need, so we need to convert for our use?
I drew it up to the points I feel we need without the clutter.

I might guess that the switch panel might be the easier place to get it out and probe the contacts there rather than the module that seems to be tucked in an awkward spot? But we don't get the info on much of what we would find at the switch panel, only hints? And that is not the best as I find switches and things that move contacts, etc. are more likely to fail than solid state that have no movement!
So a question of what you feel you can get to and check?
Can I start at bottom pin 10 and work up as I feel like the problem is at pin 8?

I read pin 10 says power from some spot on RV comes to switch (key possibly?) then if key is on, power goes to pin 10 on module as first step of operation. Does pin 10 on the module have 12 volts when key is turned on at switch?
Pin 9 is to light an led if 12 Volts is low! Not a big thing but might tell some small point on power?
Pin 8 seems to be a big one to check as it seems to be the signal telling the mod to proceed. I read this as saying the brake on gives ground on pin 8 full time? Take brake off and pin 8 ground goes away?
And in turn, putting that ground on 8 changes what you see on 7?

I still seem to come back around to needing to know if the signal from the park brake gets to this group of switches and the module and that seems to be switching the ground on/off when the brake pedal moves?

I know I'm going way out on a limb with some of this thinking, so feel free to tell me if you see something different or have a different idea.
My simple thought is that the module is assumed to have 12V power there when the key is turned on. It may be worth checking it gets to pin 10? But does it go to key switch and then to module or module then to key?
But if we see power at pin ten, it would seem they are using the park brake switch to turn the ground on/off to let things proceed!
I see the screws out on the key switch, so maybe first check that power or ground are getting to that switch and pass through when the switch is turned on?

We are not getting the full picture of the wiring from RV to switches to modules and that is a big problem to sort. The first big thought is that we are not getting the signal from the brake to pin 8 but that is hard to sort in the mess of wiring to get under the dash and just getting to the module to check pin 10 is also not the best idea, so we are still not finding the right path!

 

[Alta Sierra]

Morich, Thank You again for your input. I printed out your latest reply for my use when I get back to working on the motorhome, hopefully next Monday. I have been dealing with other things lately, and as sometimes happens, life gets in the way of what I would rather be doing.

 

[Morich]

No prob. on getting to it when time is right!
I did get a possible flash of insight?
Looking back there at post 25, I think I saw a wire labeled PPC in your picture?
That wire seems to meet the code chart as a number ten white wire on this part of the wire ID list!

It would seem to make sense that PPC is from ground to the module and then PPB might be a 10 gauge yelllow to get the all important battery and ground to the module. I might assume the slide switch might also have to be on to get both of those to the module to power it up?
Looking further, could we guess that the four wires I've marked in blue would then let the module signal the rams or motors at front and back of a slide to move? This might only show when the in/out switch is pushed and the slide switch is on?

But there is a big issue in my mind on this working! Have you any experience with solid state circuits like AND, NAND, OR, NOR gates? Part of the circuits that make up solid state chips for simple name?
Thouhgt is that we might be dealing with a chip that when the module gets ground on pin 8 and the switch is on, the chip "switches" to allow power to go out to the parts that move the slide. In other words, when all the inputs are right for what it requires, it then sends the correct output to the next item that does the work of moving the slide! The problem with solid state for us DIY folks is that we have a hard time telling what solid state does as we can't measure and see things that may happen in a milli-second! All we can do is try to see that the correct input is getting there at the right time and hope the correct output hops out there!

One simple minded thing might be to check the ground is changing at pin 8 as you put the brake on/off. If it is found that is not happening, one way to get the slide to move might be as simple as running a wire from ground to that point to test that it will then move the slide? Kind of "fake there ground signal from the brake, until finding a real solution?

No hurry or pressure from here on next move but keeping my thoughts moving when it feels right here!
Carry on as if the sun will come up tomorrow as expected!

 

[Alta Sierra]

I made major progress today, and I am about 90% sure that I found the problem to be a failed “MASTER SLIDE ROOM CONTROL SWITCH”. I will fully test the slide outs after I get everything back in place on Saturday (Hopefully). I will post again with a more detailed post when I get back to my laptop PC. With my hand tremors, it’s a challenge to write very much in my I-phone’s small ‘keyboard’.

 

[Alta Sierra]

I spent all day last Wednesday working on the motorhome to no avail. Yesterday afternoon, I removed the 'keyed' "Illinois Lock" SPST Electric Key Switch from the motorhome's "MASTER SLIDE ROOM CONTROL SWITCH PANEL". When I removed its mounting plate screws, there was not enough slack in the wires connected to it to allow me to pull it far enough out of the wall in order to easily remove its two female spade terminals. (see photo 3). I had quite a struggle removing those terminals due to the lack of sufficient length in its two wires. As I was removing the last female spade terminal, the switch itself exploded in my hands with its 4 parts hitting the floor. What a "Piece of Crap"!!! I managed to find all of the parts (see photo 2) and I figured out how to reassemble the switch (see photo 1) . The male spade terminals are mounted to the switch's rear plate which is made of plastic (nylon?) is a press fit into the main body of the switch, and it is 'spring-loaded' to secure it in place. I noticed that one of the switch's two spade terminal was bent downward. I checked continuity of both wires, and the were good. One showed a good ground connection to the "Park Brake Switch", and the other wire showed continuity from its female spade terminal to the Pin #8 on the 10-pin plug at the "RPE CONTROL MODULE" (Brains).

I put the reassembled switch back in, and remounted its wall panel. Then I 'momentarily' tried to open both of the slide-outs (one at a time) and nothing happened. So, I got the creeper out and slid under the motorhome, looking for an inline fuse holder somewhere along the wire bundles that run along the right rail of the chassis... there was nothing there! I pulled the circuit breaker panel out from its compartment just forward of the cargo compartment that contains the two "RPE CONTROL Modules" ('Brains'). I wanted to check the slide-out's Circuit Breakers connections for corrosion, and found nothing amiss there, and they were showing 12 VDC at their connections. That finished up yesterday's work.

Then on Friday morning (yesterday), I was back up front in the motorhome once again (Oh, my aching back!), searching for an inline fuse in either the "DD" or "DDJ" Winnebago-coded wires... I found nothing... not even a white wire with those I.D. codes up front. Then I decided to once again pull that SPST Key switch out of it's wall panel, and make a jumper to bypass the switch, joining the two wires coded "DD" & "DDJ" together. Once they were joined, I started the engine, and checked both of the slide-outs 'momentarily' for any sign of life. Both slide-puts reacted immediately. That tells me that the keyed SPST switch to complete the "Park Brake Switch" ground circuit to the two \"RPE Control Modules" ('Brains') is 'kaput'.

Attached is the third photo of the keyed SPST switch's ground wires and their spade terminals that attach to the keyed SPST switch that completes the "Park Brake Switch" connections to the two "RPE CONTROL Modules" ('Brains') for the two slide-out walls in the motorhome`. I had to temporarily 'hang' (tie) them up in place, as those two wires are so short that what you see in the photo is as far as the wires will come up out of the walI... I will be adding onto their lengths in order to make the removal and installation of the "Master Slide Room Control Switch" and it mounting plate easier for whoever may have to get in there again.

Due to the 'poor-quality' (choice of materials) of the OEM keyed SPST switch, I am hoping to find another SPST Keyed switch that is of better quality. The Winnebago drawing ( 11 E30W WIRING INSTL - BODY , 12V PART NO. 176899 DATED 2.2/2011) shows: "SWITCH-KEY, SPST - ILLINOIS LCK 163097-01-000 CONNECTS TO CIRCUITS DY & DDJ). I suspect that the '163097-01-000" is a Winnebago Part Number. (See the 4th photo).

I am heading into town to try & acquire a better-quality "Master Slide Room Control Switch" locally. Wish me luck in that endeavor.

 

[Alta Sierra]

UPDATE: Last Friday's 'local quest' for a replacement switch was fruitless. While I was in town, I did pick up the white-colored 16 gauge wire and crimp-style connectors to be able to extend the length of the too-short' (IMHO) wires that connect to the switch... that will lessen the strain on that white nylon(?) or plastic(?) press-fit rear cover plate's connections with its two brass male spade lugs on the back portion of the switch, and also make the removal of the mounting plate and switch assembly much easier for the next person that may have to 'get in there'. I just ordered a replacement switch on the internet. Thankfully, the company's website information was that they had 898 of them in stock before I ordered mine: https://www.mouser.com/en/ProductDetail/E-Switch/KO128A2007?qs=f57gQzlyLiq6GyX%2BTAQusw==

The part number for the switch that I ordered is: KO128A2007. It's total cost (including shipping, sales tax, and tariff fees) in USD is: $19.78. There are six different versions of that switch available, and I ordered version 'A', due to fact that its key removal is only available at "position 1", which is the same as the OEM switch. Four of the other switch versions with the key removal only in "Position 1'" (B, E, F, & H) require a 13-week lead time for delivery, as I suspect that they would be coming from out of the USA, and I did have to pay a minimal tariff (8%), on the one that I ordered.

 

[Alta Sierra]

UPDATE: The replacement key switch on the 'MASTER SLIDE ROOM CONTROL SWITCH' was the problem. I replaced the switch with a better one (IMHO), and all is well now. The key to finding the problem was on the attached drawing , down in the lower right corner of the image. The ground signal from the park brake switch when the park brake pedal is applied and locked down, first goes through that key switch and then from there to the two RPE Controls (my motorhome has two slide-outs) in the lower right cargo compartment. If only I had paid attention to the information on that drawing, I would have saved myself a whole lot of frustration and effort. My Thanks Again to Morich nand all of the others who tried to help.

 

[Morich]

YEAH! And congrats for sticking to it long term!
I have to say I did not give that switch much thought as other slides seemed to work. I "assumed" (DANGEROUS!) that it was okay!
The problem with this trek is that we don't know what we don't know till it hits us in the face!
Good to hear it works!

 

[Morich]

Just as an added info?
I've lost track of who I had told what on the Wire ID chart here:

https://www.winnebago.com/files/files/winnebago/resources/diagram/electrical_guide.pdf

I am finding this chart is not "searchable" as posted and that can be a good deal more help if it was posted differently. Not being computer guru to know, I asked grandson for info on what was needed to make this list something far more handy to use.
There are lots of times when we may come across some item on the RV and need to know which wire should be something like battery or ground. But since we don't know which wire, we have much more trouble looking at ALL the ID out of 80 pages!!!!
But they have put out a newer list and I wanted to improve it.
Instead of searching 80 pages and happen to come across a listing, say for the mode solenoid, I thought it could cut the chase a whole bunch if we could put in the name of some part like mode solenoid and let it search for wires that connect there!
Search by name of wire or name of any part that might show in the list?
I was only semi-successfull as I was able to get the list converted to be searchable! That sounds great and works very well for my personal use--- but I find no way to pass it along for anybody else to use! Lacking proper training, I know there is "something" I'm missing!
Lacking the right training, the best I can do is point in the general direction of what I did to get this newer version searchable! That means anybody seeing value in this list will have to follow my semi-skilled directions to convert it to "optical character recognition" (OCR)????
I find I can do that using Adobe on a free trial basis if I stumble around a bit.
Pulling up Adobe I found a pretty obvious tab to let me convert the ID list to OCR! That gives me a file on my machine for my use. But sending it to others by any method I've tried like e-mail, etc, doesn't work!

I recommend trying to do this if the ID is one you see using at some point as I now find it much more helpful at times. One of the basic points I often want to know is where to find battery and ground on any part. With the OCR list and if I know the name of a part, I can now hit ctrl+ F to bring a search box where I can put in the name of the part, etc. and it will quickly pop me a list of wire ID that connect to that part. In other words it cuts my chase from 80 pages to just a few where wires connect on that part, or more often when looking for a known ID , I don't have to scroll through dozens of pages to get to what I need!
Any gurus out there want to add info on how to then pass that improved list along to others? In theory, I could ask grandson again but you do all remember how hard it is to catch somebody like that when they are NOT busy!