2000 Minnie Winnie loses all coach power off shore power

[FLIPOC1]

2000 Minnie Winnie. Cranks and runs fine and house batteries are being charged (new house batteries) when engine is running. Refrigator doesn't switch to gas when off shore power and unable to start generator. Usual check of the fuses and breakers, all good. You can hear the switch operating when turning the house batteries on and off, loud pop. My internet search has been extensive before reaching out. Can't find a 30 amp to reset looked in the front right comp., I've been under the battery comp. and have cleaned contacts. Anyway to test the lower soloniod? Both units show power on each side.

 

[RayIN]

Welcome to the discussion forums!
To aid in tracing wiring and determining location of switches, fuses, relays, etc. Go to the Winnebago website, follow the drop-down menu's and download the 12V coach wiring schematics, and 120V if you think they are needed.

 

[Morich]

My first thought is to look at drawings to understand where the different items mentioned get power. But to do that we need to know which year, model and floorplan you have.
This likely will get you to the drawings for wiring but where to go from there?

Wiring Diagrams

Some common basic items to help? When the engine is running it is common for the chassis 12VDC to be connected to the coach 12VDC. That would explain how things work when the engine is running as house/coach items are then able to get power from the chassis battery and engine alternator! But when the engine is off, that connection through what is called a mode solenoid is broken and when coach things fail it indicates that there is a problem with getting power from the coach batteries to the load center where the 12VDC fuses are located and on to the items needing power. Quite often the generator is one of the items which needs power at the coach batteries to start!

Sounds like power to/from the coach batteries is only getting across when the RV engine is running, not most of the time. Depends on how long you have driven recently versus how long and how much power may have been used from those batteries.
Is it possible the coach battery disconnect was turned off and they are near totally dead now? This can be confusing as we can have power to run most all inside things while plugginto acpower, even when the coach batteries are disconnected at the switch and relay! when plugged to AC, the converter makes the DC needed. But if niether the AC cord nor the engine are providing power, an open disconnect or dead coach batteries will keep many of the inside things from working!
The loud pop when connecting/disconnecting them seems suspect as it should not normally be loud enough to hear as a "pop"!
But we really need more info on WHICH RV to check how it is wired.

 

[FLIPOC1]

Im sorry the 2000 minnie winnie is the 31 A. Model WF431A

 

[Morich]

Okay got some info on that RV wiring.
Still a bit of doubt as there is a US as well as Canadian version but most of the parts are the same for this issue!
AC drawings here with US on right side!

https://www.winnebago.com/Files/Files/Winnebago/Resources/Diagram/2000/132687.pdf

I snipped part of the drawing to talk?

AC cord is plugged in at campground or can be plugged to get power from generator when running. We might call this a manual transfer switch? At the load center power should go to a 30 amp main breaker. That breaker then feeds the other smaller breakers that feed the different items that use 110AC power directly. The microwave is often a handy one to check for a light, etc. to show it is working?
But the important one for now seems to the the 15amp that is next to last at right! It seems to feed both the frig and the converter! Does the frig seem to work on AC, not propane? That would indicate the converter should also be getting power as they are on the same breaker. But a trick may be that it won't work if it uses 12VDC for controls!
When converter working, there should be humm that you can hear when near it? Behind the load center where fuses are found?
That converter uses AC to make DC for coach items like lights, fans, and controls as well as feed 12VDC to charge coach batteries. So the first thought might be to check some fan or light to see if it is working. If the RV is plugged in, the insde 12vdc may work but if the battery disconnect switch is off, that power to charge is not getting to the battery and it may run down! That would possibly explain why lights, ect. work until the cord is unplugged. If you loose the AC feeding the convert, it stops feeding the lights! Normally we expect the batteries to take over at that point but they may be dead/not charged!!
A voltmeter to test the battery voltage is good but if none on hand, there is a way to do some testing.
This is part of that 12VDC setup taken from this drawing second sheet:

https://www.winnebago.com/Files/Files/Winnebago/Resources/Diagram/2000/132686.pdf

I marked the coach battery and wiring in red and the chassis wiring in green to make more sense to see?
Under the steps, there should be a metal can looking item. Left side should have a cable from coach battery to a large lug. On right side there should be a cable from chassis battery. They are not connected much of the time until the engine runs or we push a dash switch. When we do either of those, 12VDc is sent to the small center lug through a coil inside the solenoid. I marked that control wire in blue! When we energize that coil, it closes a large set of contacts between the red and green lines. Like a silver dollar slapped against the lugs inside and we can often hear or feel it thump!
The way we can use this is when we get no lights, fans, and such inside but if we start the engine, this connects the chassis battery togwether with the coach and the lights may come on. That can mean the coach batteries are dead until we add the good chassis battery to make things work!
Kind of a poor man's way to test without using a meter but kind of quick and handy if we understand what it does when we connect a good battery?
If the coach battery disconnect has gotten turned off while we were plugged to power, that power will run things we want but it doesn't get to the batteries to charge them and they can run down!
You mentioned a 30 amp breaker? Is that the one shown in battery compartment? Maybe find it there?

Try that a bit to see what you find and we may need to do some more. I like my brain strain in smallish doses and it can bend our minds if not familiar.

 

[FLIPOC1]

Thanks for the information. This started when coach batteries went bad, was at ski resort and the cold got them and they had age out. New coach batteries and solid charge. I did check the breakers, all good. Inverter good. When engine running, coach batteries are charging, but no coach power. I'm looking at the battery disconnect relay as the culprit?

 

[FLIPOC1]

The only 30 amp breaker I find is on the control panel.

 

[Morich]

Okay, understand the coach battery is getting charge from the engine alternator! As I've drawn it, power comes from engine on green line connects across to red line as solenoid is closed when engine runs. That feeeds power toward the battery disconnect relay and should go on across to the breakers shown and on to the RV.
One problem may be a thought, deepending on WHEN the coach battery disconnect switch is used!
This is a tricky thing as it is a strange desing. They want us to only use battery power for a short moment as we set this relay, so give us a strange one that moves when we have power to it but then latches in that position until we have power and move it again.
Keeping in mind that it is only getting power when the engine is running to provide that power, so timeing may be killing you?
AFTER the engine is running and that gives you power, do you THEN hit the switch to close this relay? There is a magnetic gizmo built into this special relay and it will hold it open or closed until we have power and then hit the switch to mve the relay.
One might be assuming we had turned it on but it not actually move becasue there was no power until the engine runs, so we can think it on but the magnet did not let it moove until there was power!
You might be able to get it going by FIRST get it power from the engine, THEN try hitting the switch to close the relay?
Notice thatthe switch may feel a bit "odd" when you push it and it seems to "bounce back", not stay flipped like the normal switch. Not a thing to notice if not actually paying attention to the way the switch feels?
Power from engine first, try switch to turn on, then one might expect inside things to work but only as long as engine runs?
Lots of guessing involved in that idea, so try it and see if that explains part of the problem. Normally the switch and relay would be getting power from the coach batteries but with them removed, it takes power from the engine to move it against the magnet holding it in whatever last position it was before power was lost.

Good idea to not use power to hole the relay whie we camp. Let the magnet hold the relay but that means it stays open or closed and I might expect it is open.
But a way to test if trying the switch again is no good? If you have a set of old pliers or something kind of heavy metal to short across the two big cables at teh relay, you can connect the incoming to the outgoing and expect to see a light inside come on, etc. ? If using wire to bridge across the relay, make sure it is heavy enough to not heat and burn finders! If the lights come on when putting a wire across the two big cables, that might say the relay is bad?
A different way to get some info if you have a helper? Put a hand on this relay and you may feel or hear it clickwhen somebody pushes the switch to move the relay? That may tell you it is moving but without a meter, the contaacts may still not be passing the power? Not sure of the relay desing but I think the contacts are out of sight inside?
But if lights still do not come on, the problem would seem to be finding that 30 amp fuse/breaker they show in the battery compartment. I would expect that to be quite close by the relay and follow the cable from relay to the fuse and check it?

 

[FLIPOC1]

On the front side of the relay I get just a bump in the meter but just a bump when checking the two small post it dies when the switch noise stops. The relay on the side connect test show that it is working, passing steady current that is interrupted when switched of. Nothing happened when I jumped these two post, no change.

 

[Bryon Carpender]

Does the refrigerator work at all ? Is it a 3 way propane 12v and 120! If it works on power 12v and 120 then it’s on the propane ignition circuit maybe as simple as a bug in the pipes hopefully something simple

 

[FLIPOC1]

Does the refrigerator work at all ? Is it a 3 way propane 12v and 120! If it works on power 12v and 120 then it’s on the propane ignition circuit maybe as simple as a bug in the pipes hopefully something simple

The refrigerator does work on shor power and will switch to propane but goes dead when unplugged from shore power. I can plug a generator into the 30 amp plug for my generator and it will start the generator on the Winnie. But went on shore power alone. The generator will not start.

 

[FLIPOC1]

Thanks for all the wonderful information. I'm getting here. Trying to wade through it.

 

[RayIN]

On the front side of the relay I get just a bump in the meter but just a bump when checking the two small post it dies when the switch noise stops. The relay on the side connect test show that it is working, passing steady current that is interrupted when switched of. Nothing happened when I jumped these two post, no change.

That sure sounds like the solenoid/relay is not working.

 

[Morich]

On the front side of the relay I get just a bump in the meter but just a bump when checking the two small post it dies when the switch noise stops. The relay on the side connect test show that it is working, passing steady current that is interrupted when switched of. Nothing happened when I jumped these two post, no change.

Need to verify what I think you are saying! I think what you say is correct and as expectd when speak of the disconnect relay.
You get power on the small control wires at each side but it goes awya when you release the switch? That sound like the switch sends power to move the relay but only as long as we are holding the switch, then the control power stops.
That would seem correct as the switch is built as a momentary switch and doesn't click like the normal on/off switch. In doing this, the switch only uses power long enough to move the relay which then has a magnet built in to hold it in the last position it was moved, on or off.
We release the switch and power use stops for that control of the relay but the relay stays due to the magnet holding iton or off! We don't use the battery power full time to hold the relay, only using it as long as we are changing/moving the relay!
Like a remote control in that it wakes up, does the work and then goes back to sleep when we let go of the switch?

We get some help on wire ID as it is stamped near the ends of the smaller wires Winn used. Look for a long string of info but the last several letters in that string are the ID which should match what we see on drawings as well as the "wire ID chart" . Link tot hat chart should be found near the bottom left of drawings and can be used to "decdoe" the id for from and to locations!
If we look just at the part of the draing from above that involves this disconnect relay we get this:

We should have coach battery comes to solenoid to meet another wire taking power to one side of the disconnect relay. That relay has control wires, marked LJ, lG, and LH.
So we want to know what those three wires do and look at the wire ID chart.

https://www.winnebago.com/Files/Files/Winnebago/Resources/Diagram/electrical_guide.pdf

Very old and very awkward to move through, I had a grandson make a searchable list for me! But I have no idea (computer dummy?) of how to get my searchable list online to pass on to you guys!
This snip is for those wires to get where they come from and go to! And that can give a hint of what they do, battery or gound, etc.

So we get that LJ is a battery feed, so we get that wire goes to the switch and depending on which way we press the momentary switch, left or right, it connects power to LG or LH to engage or disengage the relay!
Main idea is that if we press the switch left,right, left, it should make the relay follow and go open,close, open until we stop moving the switch! When we astop moving the switch it stops using power and the relay stays latching with the magnet, either open or closed, depending on which position we left it last.
Only guessing but if you are getting a chatter from the relay, it may be that you were not aware of it being momentary with two temorary positions. Any chance you wer pushed it left, right, left right and hearing the relay follow that movement?
But part of the confusion may be that the timeing of when we push that switch is important! If we push it when there is no coach battery, the relay doesn't move as the switch is dead. If we try to turn it on , then add the battery, it will still be OFF as it has to have power to come alive!
A nice trick to avoid using battery full time to hold the relay closed or open as the magnet does that!

But basic idea is to see coach battery on one of the big lugs where the cable is, then we should see that battery pass through the disconnect if closed or not if it is open!
Feel of the switch action as you push it and relaese. Does it seem to bounce back to the center location? If that switch has a problem and sticking in eitherdirection, that might be a major confusing issues as the relay might just be using power full time, chattering in confusion or any number of weird things? Maybe the magnet is no longer holding it in one position? Most of your inside RV 12V goes through this relay, except for safety items!If it is not moving and staying moved to closed, the RV 12volt coach is going to be weird or dead!