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Old 10-14-2021, 08:16 AM   #1
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Winter Battery Maintenance

Hi,
I have a 2002 Winnebago Journey 36G

Last year when I stored the motorhome for the winter, I plugged it in, turned the AUX BATTERY switch OFF, and in spring, it would not start.

When it didn't start, all I did was turn the AUX BATTERY switch back ON and let it sit till the next day.

The next day, it started.

So my 12 volt converter is apparently working.

I then load tested all the battery's. I wasn't happy with the test results and the battery's were 7 and 8 years old anyway so .......

I replaced all the battery's ....... 2 start and 2 coach.

I have a jumper wire from the coach battery's to the start battery's that I plug it when the motorhome is sitting.
I know there is a unit out there that will do this automatically, to charge all the battery's when sitting, but this method works fine for me.

This kept all the battery's charged by the 12 volt converter all summer long with no issues.

My question is ......... do I leave the AUX BATTERY switch ON while plugged in during the winter to keep the battery's charged?
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Old 10-14-2021, 09:28 AM   #2
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That switch is variously labeled use/store, disconnect switch or aux start switch (which seems to be counter intuitive to me) which is what you seem to have. Other MHs have a aux start switch that is a momentary contact switch to boost starting the chassis engine. Confusing, right?

If yours is equivalent to the other two then it will not let the converter keep the chassis batteries charged when off. Leave it on.

David
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Old 10-14-2021, 10:06 AM   #3
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Turning off the aux battery switch won't necessarily turn off all the loads. Things like the propane alarm may still stay connected which will drain your batteries over time. Since you apparently have year-round shore power, David M's suggestion will work with the following caveat:

If your converter is original you'll need to upgrade to a modern one with a multi-stage charger to avoid battery damage from long term use. Here's what I installed on my 2002:

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

In the meantime, I suggest you completely disconnect your battery bank after fully charging by disconnecting the neg cable along with any other ground wires connected to the battery post. Doing so will eliminate all parasitic loads.

Note that, in some posts, the Aux Battery switch is euphemistically referred to as a "Salesman's Switch".
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Old 10-14-2021, 11:25 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidM View Post
That switch is variously labeled use/store, disconnect switch or aux start switch (which seems to be counter intuitive to me) which is what you seem to have. Other MHs have a aux start switch that is a momentary contact switch to boost starting the chassis engine. Confusing, right?

If yours is equivalent to the other two then it will not let the converter keep the chassis batteries charged when off. Leave it on.

David
Confusing is right !

In conjunction with the AUX BATTERY switch, I also have the AUX START switch.

I used the AUX START switch it when it failed to start last spring to no avail. So apparently none of the battery's were being charged with the AUX BATTERY switch off??

Now you would think I'm answering my own question but here's the catch. I also have a solar panel that keeps the battery's charged in the summer.

So I really don't know if the converter does disconnect when the AUX BATTERY switch is off because in the summer, I don't need to keep it plugged in to maintain the battery's.
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Old 10-14-2021, 11:43 AM   #5
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My understanding is the converter is disconnected when the Aux Battery switch is off. I have a small solar panel that keeps my batteries charged through the winter but I live in CA, not WI.

I know you said the wire from your house batteries to your starting battery works for you but do yourself a favor and install a Trik-L-Start, Amp-L-Start or a similar unit. With just a simple wire you risk one battery unexpectedly draining the other.

Even if not connected to your house batteries, your starting battery has it's own set of "parasitic" loads that can drain it in as little as a couple of weeks. You can install a simple disconnect switch to the negative post to prevent this from happening. You can also install one on your house batteries for a 100% disconnect:

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=automotiv..._ts-doa-p_1_23

I know that that most of us would assume we should install the disconnect switch to the positive post but the negative post is the post recommended by most manufacturers.
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Old 10-14-2021, 11:58 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobC View Post
Turning off the aux battery switch won't necessarily turn off all the loads. Things like the propane alarm may still stay connected which will drain your batteries over time. Since you apparently have year-round shore power, David M's suggestion will work with the following caveat:

If your converter is original you'll need to upgrade to a modern one with a multi-stage charger to avoid battery damage from long term use. Here's what I installed on my 2002:

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

In the meantime, I suggest you completely disconnect your battery bank after fully charging by disconnecting the neg cable along with any other ground wires connected to the battery post. Doing so will eliminate all parasitic loads.

Note that, in some posts, the Aux Battery switch is euphemistically referred to as a "Salesman's Switch".
Hi Bob,
I don't understand why I'd need to replace the converter. Mine works fine. The old battery's lasted 3 years of my ownership. They were 5 years old when I got this coach. I continued to use the old battery's for half this summer before replacing. The solar Panel and converter kept them adequate enough to start the engine.

I believe the AUX BATTERY switch in my coach is what's referred to as the "sales man switch". It will cut all 12 volt power to the coach. I always shut the switch off in the past when storing and not on shore power.

I'm guessing it stopped the converter from charging the battery's too but really don't know at this point.
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Old 10-14-2021, 12:06 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by BobC View Post
My understanding is the converter is disconnected when the Aux Battery switch is off. I have a small solar panel that keeps my batteries charged through the winter but I live in CA, not WI.

I know you said the wire from your house batteries to your starting battery works for you but do yourself a favor and install a Trik-L-Start, Amp-L-Start or a similar unit. With just a simple wire you risk one battery unexpectedly draining the other.

Even if not connected to your house batteries, your starting battery has it's own set of "parasitic" loads that can drain it in as little as a couple of weeks. You can install a simple disconnect switch to the negative post to prevent this from happening. You can also install one on your house batteries for a 100% disconnect:

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=automotiv..._ts-doa-p_1_23

I know that that most of us would assume we should install the disconnect switch to the positive post but the negative post is the post recommended by most manufacturers.
That's the unit. I've been told you can wire that to the solenoids in front .... on the firewall. You're right. My jump wire is doing the same thing but will drain all the battery's if the start battery's get drawn down. I should upgrade.
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Old 10-14-2021, 01:28 PM   #8
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Here's my two cents... for FREE!

When storing a motorhome for winter I would not leave it plugged in. I would disconnect both sets of batteries and put a smart trickle charger on each set. Battery Tender, Battery Minder, etc they go by different names but they are smart chargers that run off of AC power that will cycle your batteries and keep them not only charged but healthy.

About that solar panel - I'm assuming it's the totally worthless 10w panel manufacturers put on motorhomes in the early aughts. It's directly connected to your chassis batteries and has no effect on your house batteries. But truth be told it barely has as much output as one of those "solar wrist watches." And, winter is not good solar weather to rely on. To back me up on this watch the latest AZ Expert's winnebago roof replacement video. He points to a broken 10w solar panel and says, "I'll not replace that those things are worthless gimmicks."

Leaving your RV plugged in all winter gives you false assurance that everything is OK in your RV. You figure everything is charging or getting power and all is well. But you are not monitoring your RV during the winter months. Things could be fine... or they could very well not be fine at all.

Keep your batteries "tended" and let the rest of the RV have a long winter's nap.

PS. I'm kind of shocked a Journey DP doesn't have two starting chassis batteries and 4-house batteries. But if you never need more power from your batteries then I guess 2-house batteries is the right amount.
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Old 10-14-2021, 02:15 PM   #9
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Way too much on ideas but little on actual facts, perhaps leading to lots of confusion?
One place to start is that when you are speaking of starting the RV engine, the coach batteries , charged or dead is not a factor as the engine uses the chassis or start battery to start. That combined with whether there is a method used to keep the start battery charged is a big part of the question.

The only time the coach batteries become involved in helping to start the engine is when you use the momentary switch on the dash, etc that is often called "aux, boost", or some thing like that to indicate it can be used to "boost" or jump start the engine!
Connecting or disconnecting the coach batteries will not change the engine starting in any way if the boost switch is not used. Sometimes the engine will start the second time when it didn't the first?

For maintaining the batteries there are different ways that suit different folks, so the details matter.

Many older converters would charge too high for too long and did tend to boil the water off if we did not watch carefully enough. Newer charger/converters have better systems built in to gradually reduce the voltage as the battery reaches full charge but exactly when each RV got into the better systems is not a firm answer as the idea has been around for as long as the '80's if we paid enough! So experience is one way to see if things work for you and it sounds like you are happy with your battery lifespan and doing the single jumper to get the converer charge voltage from the coach to the start battery.

Before selling our last RV, I had moved to a single wire between the positvie post and letting the converter charge both as being a very simple move as I had found the batteries were okay when done that way. Yes, it is true that the single wire WILL drain both battery sets IF the converter fails but that is one I was willing to go with to assure higher charging for both sets at all times and being less complex.

But the really basic thing to be aware of is that BOTH start and charge batteries tend to go flat, even when all the built in disconnects are used becasue there are safety items and small parts still connected in most cases.
On the start, there is a group of ignition, radio preset and other automatic items which are often still on and on the coach , there are CO and propane detectors as well to slowly drain things. The steps are often left as a safety item as they are really touchy about letting folks fall out!
If the steps are out and the light underneath is not noticed, the battery doesn't last very long!

We might look at the drawings and find what is connected or not when the switch is thrown but it is really quite simple to just flip the switch and find out what stopped working!
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Old 10-15-2021, 04:00 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobC View Post
Turning off the aux battery switch won't necessarily turn off all the loads. Things like the propane alarm may still stay connected which will drain your batteries over time. Since you apparently have year-round shore power, David M's suggestion will work with the following caveat:

If your converter is original you'll need to upgrade to a modern one with a multi-stage charger to avoid battery damage from long term use. Here's what I installed on my 2002:

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

In the meantime, I suggest you completely disconnect your battery bank after fully charging by disconnecting the neg cable along with any other ground wires connected to the battery post. Doing so will eliminate all parasitic loads.

Note that, in some posts, the Aux Battery switch is euphemistically referred to as a "Salesman's Switch".

Thanks Bob

I'm going to look at my converter to see if it's still the factory unit.
If it is, I going to take your advice and replace it with a 3 stage converter.

I've been looking at 4 bank battery maintenance chargers and the price's for the cheapest units are comparable to a complete converter replacement. Then I'll know my battery's are being maintained correctly plus I won't have to remove battery cables during winter storage !

Thanks to EVERYONE else and because of all the responses, I feel I have this issue worked out !
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Old 10-15-2021, 09:25 AM   #11
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A two bank maintenance charger should be adequate. Unless you were to completely separate all your batteries, your two house batteries are one bank and your two starting batteries are one bank.
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Old 10-20-2021, 05:27 PM   #12
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It is usually not a good idea to gang your coach and chassis batteries together and try to use one charger for both. The chassis (starting) battery is usually a different size and type from the coach batteries (deep cycle) and have different charging characteristics. So unless they are all the same size, type and age, its better to use separate trickle chargers on each bank of batteries.
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Old 10-20-2021, 07:20 PM   #13
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It is usually not a good idea to gang your coach and chassis batteries together and try to use one charger for both. The chassis (starting) battery is usually a different size and type from the coach batteries (deep cycle) and have different charging characteristics. So unless they are all the same size, type and age, its better to use separate trickle chargers on each bank of batteries.
But then is that really very important?

Keeping in mind that both strings are automatically connected together and charged by the alternator as we drive, is it important or are you saying that the engineers at Winnebago never thought of the problem?
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Old 10-20-2021, 08:23 PM   #14
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Batteries

I have a 2005 Itasca that I’ve had about 5 years. I’ve been through several batteries. I had a house battery blow the tops off while plugged in at a park, which was scary. I had it plugged into 30 amp power for a couple of warm months in Washington after being in storage in California. I replaced the radio in the unit that was a power hog because of its blue tooth, and other features. I got new deep cycle batteries from the interstate battery store in Everett. I got a new chassis battery which was an Optima closed system from Nappa. I got an ample start trickle to go from house batteries to chassis battery. I also got a shut off switch on the chassis battery. The last thing I got was a smart charger that is a charger maintainer. Instead of plugging into shore power I use the smart charger which is hooked up to the terminals of the left house battery, which is connected to the right house battery. this maintains all the batteries when shut off with the ampl charge. When in storage I just shut them all off and the trickle is maintaining the chassis battery. I use the screen door to retract the stairs, then turn off the stairs. Then switch off the chassis battery, and lock the door.
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Old 10-21-2021, 07:20 AM   #15
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But then is that really very important?

Keeping in mind that both strings are automatically connected together and charged by the alternator as we drive, is it important or are you saying that the engineers at Winnebago never thought of the problem?
The alternator only charges the engine batteries, not the house batteries. House batteries are only charged by the converter. It does not charge the engine batteries. I know for a fact that's the way my 2002 Horizon was, and I doubt Winnebago builds them any other way. It would cost more.

If you want a system that does both, it can be done. I replaced the oem converter, which easily overcharges and boils the batteries. Installed a Power Dynamics with Charge Wizzard, about 12 or so years ago, and also installed an Blue Sea System Auto Charge Solenoid.

Both banks are now automatically charged from any available source; shore power, engine alternator or generator, and always the lowest bank first, then both banks go to maintenance/float charge.
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Old 10-21-2021, 08:07 AM   #16
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The alternator only charges the engine batteries, not the house batteries. House batteries are only charged by the converter. It does not charge the engine batteries. I know for a fact that's the way my 2002 Horizon was, and I doubt Winnebago builds them any other way. It would cost more.
That may be your experience but it's not always the case. It's easy to check. Check your house battery voltage with and without the engine running.
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Old 10-21-2021, 08:47 AM   #17
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The alternator only charges the engine batteries, not the house batteries. House batteries are only charged by the converter. It does not charge the engine batteries. I know for a fact that's the way my 2002 Horizon was, and I doubt Winnebago builds them any other way. It would cost more.

If you want a system that does both, it can be done. I replaced the oem converter, which easily overcharges and boils the batteries. Installed a Power Dynamics with Charge Wizzard, about 12 or so years ago, and also installed an Blue Sea System Auto Charge Solenoid.

Both banks are now automatically charged from any available source; shore power, engine alternator or generator, and always the lowest bank first, then both banks go to maintenance/float charge.
It may be true that the 2002 Horizon did not do this and the drawings for your Rv are not complete enough to say as it only gives the control wiring inputs to the mode solenoid and not the output wiring so we can't tell what it actually does.
It may be true that your Rv has a cheaper,simpler form of mode solenoid but in the 2006 model Horizon it is clear that the solenoid does connect both together as the normal Winnebago RV does.

Compare these two snips from the drawings to see what I mean. The drawing on the left is for your RV and really means nothing as only the LR and MG control wires are shown and none of the outputs are shown, so this drawing is useless.
But the drawing on the right is fro the 2006 Horizon and it does show the same LR and MG which are the control wires plus the connections from the coach battery at the left and the start/chassis battery below.

The operation has two modes which gives the name for the mode solenoid.

One is the boost mode when we have a weak battery and the other is when the engine is running to connect both together for charging. LR is the hot lead from the boost/ aux start switch and ignition run circuit and MG is the ground, just as shown on your year but with the added info of what the solenoid does when it is operated.

What happens on your RV is unknown but the right hand drawing is the one I expect to find on almost all Winnebago.

If your coach batteries do not charge when the engine is running, I would want to verify that the mode solenoid is wired as others and find out why it is not working. A quick look at the mode solenoid should be easy to spot if there are only two wires as shown or several more large cables for the battery connections.

A burned and corroded mode solenoid is a pretty common complaint on older motorhomes! But if I were looking for the fault in your Rv, I would try looking at the drawings for the 2001 Horizon as shown in the last snip as they are much more complete and accurate.
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Old 10-21-2021, 10:48 AM   #18
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not disputing whether some Winnebago's had automatic charging to house and engine batteries from engine and converter, but I know mine didn't.

I found an automatic sensing solenoid from Blue Seas systems that had sensor wires to both the house bank and engine batteries, when it sensed one (or the other) bank was low, to allow that bank to charge first. I don't know if they still sell that model, but the do sell the ACR, which is an auto sensing relay (no solenoid), that isolates banks for their respective loads, but combines them for charging.

I'm posting JUST IN CASE anyone on this thread, is looking for a solution to that problem.
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Old 10-21-2021, 12:22 PM   #19
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The alternator only charges the engine batteries, not the house batteries. ....and I doubt Winnebago builds them any other way.
It's this comment that will draw contradictory comments.

Better to say that YOUR RV is built that way. I know that mine and a large number of other motorhomes that Winnebago builds are wired to charge both chassis and house from the alternator.
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Old 10-21-2021, 01:47 PM   #20
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Interesting stuff. I have a 100 watt solar panel that keeps my battery fully charged when stored in season between uses. I turn the battery disconnect knob to cut off the power to most everything. The electric tongue jack and the slide out are not affected by and operate even with the disconnect turned to “off”. I assume this causes some drain, but my experience with storage for several weeks at a time in season, is that the 100watt solar panel is sufficient to keep the battery charged even with this drain.

Based on this, I see no reason to remove the battery for winter storage of 4-5 months. Am I correct or should I still remove the battery and put it on a trickle charger in the garage?
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