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Old 09-18-2021, 06:32 AM   #1
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Towing a Travel Trailer With a GVWR That Exceed's the Vehicle's Towing Capacity

Hi all,

We are considering purchasing a Minnie 2301bhs but our TV is a 2022 Toyota Sequoia with AWD. The Minnie has a dry weight of 6,148lbs and a GVWR of 8,800lbs. The Toyota has a max towing capacity of 7,000. Our RV dealer is assuring us that the vehicle will tow this trailer.

I've been doing research and watching YouTube videos on Towing RVs for hours. Based on my research, determining whether your vehicle can tow a particular RV is part science and part magic because the specs provided by the vehicle manufacturer and the RV manufacturer are subject to so many factors and variables.

Regardless, it seems to me that towing a trailer with an 8,800lb GVWR with a vehicle that is rated at 7,000lbs by the OEM is going to open me up to financial and legal liabilities should my engine die while I'm towing the trailer or if I get into an accident involving another person who then sues me. Even if I was careful to not load out the trailer to exceed 7,000lbs, I would have no way to prove it, so the dealer, insurance company or lawyers would look to the specs on the vehicles to determine if I was at fault.

Does anyone have any experience or stats that they can share?

Thanks!
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Old 09-18-2021, 06:46 AM   #2
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You are on the right track, the dealer will tell you anything to get the unit sold. You have to watch out for yourself. If you know the rating of your vehicle, you know the rating of the camper, and you know you are exceeding the tow capacity or GVWR of the combination, dont do it. You need bigger tow vehicle or a smaller trailer.
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Old 09-18-2021, 06:47 AM   #3
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Some experience and common sense applied to your situation:

My experience is that towing a trailer becomes increasingly uncomfortable as the trailer weight exceeds 80% of the maximum allowed. Under 80% feels very comfortable if not unrecognizable that you are towing something. At 100% it feels very uncomfortable and requires dedicated attention to driving.

You can push the comfortable limit up with a weight distributing hitch with sway control. To tow 7,000 lbs you would almost certainly need a WDH. Helper air springs on the rear also raise the comfort limit.

But I would never do what you propose. Not because of some wear/structural/braking problem with that weight or legal jeapardy. But because of driving comfort.

David
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Old 09-18-2021, 08:14 AM   #4
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Sequoia payload= 1,300 lbs
Laden (6,700 lbs) TT tongue weight = 800lbs

As soon as you and your wife get in the Sequoia with a few things, you’ll be overweight on payload, probably overweight on Rear GAWR, and very likely overweight on TV GVWR and combined GVWR. Even with a WDH, I would consider this an unsafe rig.

Your TV better suited for a micro mini.
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Old 09-18-2021, 08:36 AM   #5
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There are no doubt other people that tow more trailer with less truck, and only you can decide if you want to go that route. But it sounds like you already know the answer and others here have added sound opinions on this as well.

As for the dealer/salesman, if their mouth is moving they are lying to make the sale.

For about 10 years we towed travel trailers with large SUVs - Tahoe’s at first and then Ford Expedition ELs. Our biggest TT weighed 5,400 lbs dry and 7,000 lbs gross. It was 25’ long. The 2-wheel drive expedition el with heavy duty tow package could tow over 8,400 lbs. We wanted a larger TT but did not go that route because we knew that a longer trailer that weighed over 7,000lbs would be too much trailer to tow with our 1/2 ton based SUV.
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Old 09-18-2021, 09:53 AM   #6
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From towing generators on trailers with several kinds of vehicles, one big thing that jumps out to me is the way it stops!
Pulling it can be a matter of just getting down and learning to crawl up the hills but stopping is often a spur of the moment need and we don't get to plan for it as it jumps up out of nowhere!
When the weight of the trailer suddenly hits the back of the tow vehicle, it tends to lift the rear wheels and that makes it way scary when trying to stop if some fool cuts around you and stops at the light!
The antilock brakes were howling and I was able to get to the shoulder but it still makes me shudder!
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Old 09-18-2021, 10:04 AM   #7
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When towing over 40mph in congested traffic, I’ve programmed myself to keep my fingers near trailer brake controller when an exit ramp is approaching. On more than one occasion, some teenager driving daddy’s BMW decides to pass two tractor trailers and cut in Front of me with inches to spare braking hard to just barely get onto the exit ramp. Once, near Knoxville, I slammed on both truck and trailer brakes and heard my screeching tires. I was so shaken I had to get off at the next exit and take a walk to calm down. I suppose some drivers think they’re too young to die….but I’m not.
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Old 09-18-2021, 02:02 PM   #8
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Part science part math part magic. . I tow a Micro Minnie 2100BH with an F150 and an still put a fairly sharp pencil to my truck limits and the relevant weights, The WDH is where the science meets magic. I feel a lot more comfortable knowing the numbers.
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Old 09-18-2021, 03:54 PM   #9
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Many thanks for all the great advice! We listened and went back to the dealer to pick out a smaller TT.
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Old 09-18-2021, 05:15 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rasman59 View Post
Many thanks for all the great advice! We listened and went back to the dealer to pick out a smaller TT.
The adage; "Less is MORE" feels right at home around R.V's. and T.T.'s..

Less total maintenance, Less per running foot of roof membrane to Re and Re, if you love your trailer, and only the roof needs to be replaced, Less length to try and wedge into some smaller or tree pocked, campsites, Less length, that perhaps allows you the choice of storing your T.T. on your perhaps, smaller home driveway, saving you thousands (yes...thousands) in storage costs over the trailers useable life...

Solid walls, are just that...solid...the trailer integrity is solid, ,..and you do not have tracks, gears, motors, you have SOLID side walls...they do not need any maintenance other than washing and waxing...and you don't ever have to enter the 'my trailer is BIGGER than YOUR trailer...'. LOL! Cheers!

LESS is more...especially in these times...

John Less,
Director of the local chapter of the 'Less is MORE' Association of North America

We charge less dues, less fees, and we all have as members LESS stress camping... We are totally open to welcoming new members at any hour, un-LESS, joining associations is not your thing...
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Old 09-22-2021, 04:43 PM   #11
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Glad you seen the light and went for a TT that would be better matched for the TV. We had a Ram 1500 Crew Cab 4X4 with a 3.92 rear end towing our Mini Plus weighing about 7500 pounds (truck had a 10,440 tow capacity). Cargo Capacity was only 1340 pounds so with a 720 pound tongue weight, 450 pounds of people, 120 pound Inverter Generator and 100 pounds of "stuff", we were already over grossed by a mere 50 pounds. Even with a WDH and sway bars in the Kansas winds, the truck would "feel" a bit unstable at 65 mph. We upgraded to a Ram 2500 Crew Cab 4X4 Hemi Long Bed and with a 15,000 pound tow and 2,950 pound Cargo Capacity; the difference was a huge improvement. No more death gripping the steering wheel and is like there is nothing behind us. Good luck on the search for the new lighter rig!
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Old 09-22-2021, 04:45 PM   #12
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The trailer is too big. That is about as heavy as you want for a half ton truck. Towing at the max rating is not a pleasant or safe experience. I believe it’s mostly gone because the owners can’t afford a new tow vehicle at the same time. Then the rationalizations start with how they they think they are safe and they believe everything is wonderful. I would suggest either a new tow vehicle or a smaller trailer with a max weight of 5k. Just my opinion. Feel free to disagree and do ad you wish. Most people do.
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Old 09-22-2021, 05:30 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by rasman59 View Post
Many thanks for all the great advice! We listened and went back to the dealer to pick out a smaller TT.
This is a great post, the OP asked and everyone commented on the dangers of towing over the truck limits. Then the OP took the advice and input then bought the right size TT. Too many posts I've seen like this on other forums when this is asked and surprisingly many do everything to complain of the weight police or rationalize why they do it so you can.... really. So thanks this was refreshing to see this done right and everyone stays safe.
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Old 09-22-2021, 10:33 PM   #14
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There are multiple fail points listed in most vehicle specs so if you hit any one of them then its a no go. Too many will point to the ones that you don't exceed and use them to justify going forward however the multiple specs generally mean exceeding any one of them is a no-go.

Be mindful that even if the combination was at the 99.9% mark just under MAX capacity that would generally mean a reduction of passenger or cargo capacity in the tow vehicle. The 80% rule many go by is usually enough to allow for carrying a few passengers and their stuff in the tow vehicle along with gives you a much more stable and safe ride.

The adage that the candle that is burned more brightly burns out more quickly also holds true with regards to towing. Loaded to MAX and you will eventually be having wear and tear issues sooner than when staying below that 80% margin. I don't have numbers or studies just common sense and over 50 years experience in maintaining vehicles, boats and equipment.

My brother-in-laws family were the MAX and over crowd citing some mystical 25% wiggle room in vehicle manufacturers specifications. They were the ones dealing with frame and hitch fractures, rear axle failures, broken springs, warped brake drums, boiling brake fluid, etc, etc. His father flaunted tire aging too and sadly was killed by an old tire blowing out and since he also defeated the shoulder belt they had to have a closed casket due to the upper half of his body being dragged under the side of the vehicle as he hung out the open window. At least from the mark left by the steering wheel they were pretty confident that he was at least unconscious or perhaps already dead at that moment.

Yes you might get away with running with it overweight for a short while or even for an extended period of time however its not really best practice of something to be recommended.
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Old 09-23-2021, 10:08 AM   #15
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Glad you went smaller. It would tow fine until you burned up the tranny. That's what happened to my FIL years ago. "Sure, it will tow just fine"..��
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