There HAS To Be A Better Way To RV Than THIS!

[wyocamper]

Well, it is a process of elimination. The cheapest, easiest and most obvious was the tire pressure, from here it just gets progressively more expensive LOL. Good luck.

[creativepart]

You may want a “track bar” on the rear axle, sometimes called a panhard rod. It doesn’t do any thing to stiffen the ride but keeps the axle from moving sideways or forward/backward - anywhere but up and down.

The preferred shocks are Koni FSD. But I don’t find them too big of an improvement on my Class A. Others love them.

With the 2004 chassis you have the 5-speed transmission. When I had one I found the loud engine at high revs added to the terrible ride. After 2016 Ford went to a 6-speed and it’s a huge help noisewise.

Motorhomes are built on heavy duty truck chassises that are designed to haul gravel and lumber. The owners of those trucks don’t care how they ride. So, that’s what we’re stuck with. Join the club.

[hank857]

I have read a few notes that the MONROE RV shocks work well. I have bought some but not put them on yet. Also bought new brake pads as the OEMs suck in my opinion. Same results as I had with my F350 with the brakes. The replacements responded much much better so hoping for the same.


Anyhow, again your rig will vary by weight when loaded vs unloaded. Mine weight in at around 13750 light load full fuel and 1/3 tank water. We dont carry much water as we stay in rv places so dont need a full take when traveling. So take your time and learn the rig and what it likes/dislikes. Just like shooting some ammo works better than others in some firearms.


Again take care and enjoy BTW roads around tucson are crappy, and in the county in general. They are better in cochise county (poorer) and up toward pinal but the pima ones suck bad.

[DesertRatt]

Originally Posted by creativepart

You may want a “track bar” on the rear axle, sometimes called a panhard rod. It doesn’t do any thing to stiffen the ride but keeps the axle from moving sideways or forward/backward - anywhere but up and down.

The preferred shocks are Koni FSD. But I don’t find them too big of an improvement on my Class A. Others love them.

With the 2004 chassis you have the 5-speed transmission. When I had one I found the loud engine at high revs added to the terrible ride. After 2016 Ford went to a 6-speed and it’s a huge help noisewise.

Motorhomes are built on heavy duty truck chassises that are designed to haul gravel and lumber. The owners of those trucks don’t care how they ride. So, that’s what we’re stuck with. Join the club.

I wonder if I'm confused about the panhard rod? It was my understanding that it prevents the axle from moving horizontally with respect to the body. Or, prevents the body from moving horizontally with respect to the axle, which is what happens when a semi passes the RV on the left. All, while allowing the axle to move up and down normally.

The movement I'm feeling with the rear axle is twisting..... If viewed from above the axle is twisting clockwise and counter-clockwise motion. That's the "shuddering' when the axle hits a tar strip type impediment. The only way I can imagine stopping that is with "traction bars" as used in muscle cars.

I'm also going to contact Bilstein on Monday, and see what they say about the shocks.

[creativepart]

Sideways was probably the wrong description. I’ve been told the Track bar prevents the axle from rotating horizontally. Without it when one side of the axle moves forward the other side naturally moves backwards because it’s a sold one piece axle. But the Trackbar does not limit the up and down movement of the axle in any way.

It locates the axle along its horizontal plane. Eliminating axle steering and wander.

Traction bars job is to limit rear weight shift on acceleration in a muscle car.

I should say my comments are not based on experience, but on what I’ve read.

[Wyatt]

Originally Posted by DesertRatt

My rated pressure is 65 front, 80 rear, and that is what I am using right now.?

How did you determine your “rated tire pressure”?

Not off of the tire sidewall we hope...

[TJFogelberg]

I keep my rear air bags (2017 Minnie Winnie on the E450) at 80 when the motorhome is loaded. (I weigh my coach before long trips...Steer Axle 4360 Drive Axle 10200). (Yes, I'm slightly over the GVWR.) Front tires are at 65 Rear 70. Tow 2002 Honda CrV 3420 weight.

I already have 35,000 miles on my 4 year old rig. Rough rides are the exception, not the rule. I took I-10 from Florida to AZ last year and the only really bad patch was East of Houston. I've driven I-10 out of LA to Vegas (2012) when I bought a '99 Lazy Daze and that was a ride I'd never forget after flying into from LA from MN to pick her up. And then filling up at $5.49 gallon at the CA/NV line.

I just drove from MN to the East Coast (i-80) and there was only 1 really bad spot South of Chicago.

The ride is mostly stressly free and the rig is super comfortable to drive. The rear air bags really help. (My Lazy Daze did not have them)

I-95 is mostly good with a few rough spots (have done it from the Jersey area to Florida a couple of times).

Hopefully this thread helps you get things in better shape so you can continue to enjoy the things we all like about the RV lifestyle.

[deucehotrods]

I have to say that I-40 is the most miserable road in Arizona. The truck traffic is so heavy that as soon as its repaved, its wrecked again within the year. If you notice its the worst going up the hills, which there are many, and the trucks have to put that power to the pavement to pull that 80,000 lbs up them.

I usually run my Class A Winnebago Adventurer with the Workhorse W-22 chassis at the max weight of 22,000 lbs and tow close to 4000 lbs. Yes, it rides like a truck and a road like I-40 puts you on edge, so you feel every joint, rut and pot hole in every mile. To me, the ride isn't all that rough, its just that I feel the road is abusing and beating the hell out of my motorhome, which is an extension of me. My previous Monaco was about the same, so I guess I've gotten used to the rough roads and do all I can to avoid them when possible.

My chassis has the steering stabilizer and the track (panhard) bars which does help the steering and stability, but not necessarily the ride. The technical definition of the track bar is that it locates the front and/or rear axles from moving side to side from the chassis. This is because the leaf springs that the axles are mounted on are long, flexible spring steel that will move sideways a small amount when steering around a corner, when passing or being passed by a semi or having a big wind gust push that big box sideways. They just make it easier to keep the motorhome in the direction you point it with less input.

Tire pressure is a big part if absorbing road shocks, and with less pressure, the more flex there may be in sidewall of the tire. The trade off is the more flex, the more heat the tire generates with every revolution of the tire, and the faster you go, the more heat you generate in the tire. That is why you need to watch your tire temperatures either by a TPMS (tire monitor) system or a $20 infrared laser thermometer from Harbor Freight. Everytime you stop, get out a take a reading. Heat is a tire’s worst enemy. And it is when a tire running underinflated generates excessive internal heat due to increased sidewall flexing and a longer tire footprint (more rubber on the road). Most experts consider 195 degrees Fahrenheit as the “line in the sand” when it comes to tire temperature: Beyond that point, the temperature will start impacting tire life. At 250 degrees, a tire will start to lose structural strength, could begin experiencing tread reversion and the tire will begin to lose strength. I run my 245/75R22.5 tires at 100 lbs because I always loaded to the max and when I've dropped the pressures it wasn't all that different.

Next is your shocks, their ability to control impacts and rebound is a big part of the ride you experience. Gas pressurized shocks keep the fluid in the shock from foaming which keeps it working properly. The nitrogen pressure and valving in the shock all have a bearing on your ride. Shocks can work better in some applications than others.

Your Class C may never be as comfortable as your travel trailer and if you don't see any advantage to the Class over a Travel Trailer then your decision may already be decided unless your wife says otherwise!

[DesertRatt]

Originally Posted by Wyatt

How did you determine your “rated tire pressure”?

Not off of the tire sidewall we hope...

When I bought the tires, the installer set the pressure to 80, which is from the Michelin data sheet for the tire.

Because of all the issues I had getting the hubcaps off, I left the pressure alone for the first two outings. Then, with the ride so rough, etc, etc, etc, I finally got them lowered yesterday by weighing the rig and using the Michelin load charts for the tire.

[DesertRatt]

Originally Posted by TJFogelberg

I keep my rear air bags (2017 Minnie Winnie on the E450) at 80 when the motorhome is loaded. .

I have airbags. Without knowing any better, they were set to #30 by the guy who installed my sway bars.

I'm going to try much higher rates and see how it works! Thanks.,

[DesertRatt]

Originally Posted by deucehotrods

I have to say that I-40 is the most miserable road in Arizona. The truck traffic is so heavy that as soon as its repaved, its wrecked again within the year. If you notice its the worst going up the hills, which there are many, and the trucks have to put that power to the pavement to pull that 80,000 lbs up them.

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I met a road engineer a few years ago on an RV trip and he said that the Class 8 Super Trucks are absolutely destroying the Interstate system. In California, there will never ever be enough money to restore the roads - they just get worse annually.





watch your tire temperatures either by a TPMS (tire monitor) system or a $20 infrared laser thermometer from Harbor Freight.

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Great idea!

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Your Class C may never be as comfortable as your travel trailer and if you don't see any advantage to the Class over a Travel Trailer then your decision may already be decided unless your wife says otherwise!

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I see that now. I think I will try all the known things to improve the ride and then see what I end up with. I really LIKE the Minnie Winnie. I think the construction is very good compared to previous RVs we owned (far better than our 2011 Airstream), and I like the idea of drive and go. I'm hoping it works out!

[FIRE UP]

Originally Posted by DesertRatt

I wonder if I'm confused about the panhard rod? It was my understanding that it prevents the axle from moving horizontally with respect to the body. Or, prevents the body from moving horizontally with respect to the axle, which is what happens when a semi passes the RV on the left. All, while allowing the axle to move up and down normally.

The movement I'm feeling with the rear axle is twisting..... If viewed from above the axle is twisting clockwise and counter-clockwise motion. That's the "shuddering' when the axle hits a tar strip type impediment. The only way I can imagine stopping that is with "traction bars" as used in muscle cars.

I'm also going to contact Bilstein on Monday, and see what they say about the shocks.

Desert Ratt,
Just a couple of points of interest here. Long ago, just after the covered wagon was invented, there was LEAF SPRINGS!!! A leaf sprung vehicle, Jeep, motorhome etc. has basically SECURED differentials. That is, a leaf spring is pretty much fixed on both ends, minus the shackles. And, they also have a locating pin in the center bottom (or top) of the arc which, locates the differential, via a hole in the spring perch, on each side, to keep it from moving in its mounting to the springs.

That system, basically secures a differential from moving in two dimensions, both side to side (in reference to the body) and, front to back, (in reference to forward and backward, with the frame/vehicle. Vehicles with leaf springs had no such "Panhard bar" or, "Track bar" (One and the same) for years and years simply because the diff's were secured. Due to the design of the spring, along with the SHACKLES, would allow for the axle to move up and down.

As a leaf spring compresses, to allow for the axle to move up and down as the tires hit bumps etc., it (the spring) straightens the arc which, makes the spring LONGER. That's why shackles are installed. But, it also means that, during that straightening of the spring, the axle moves longitudinally parallel with the vehicle. That movement is minimal and there's no design components to compensate (or even a need to) for it.

But, skip forward quite a few years and, there's the invention of COIL SPRINGS. Coil springs are mostly favored over leaf springs for several reasons. I won't go into all of them now but, suffice to say, it's a better ride with them. But, coils springs present a major problem, while providing a much better ride.

A coil spring, when attached to either a front or rear differential, provides ZERO STABILITY to the axle. That is, the axle (differential) can move any and all directions possible in the universe. Soooooo, there's items installed to prevent all this movement. To keep a differential properly located within the vertical center (between the right side of the vehicle and the left side), there is the TRACK BAR or, PANHARD BAR. And, a track or panhard bar must be designed and installed, so that, when the diff travels up and down to accommodate for bumps/dips/pot holes etc. the lateral movement of that diff, must be kept to a minimum.

You see, there is a mounting point on the frame (usually on the passenger side) for the track/panhard bar, and a mount on the diff housing for the other end. In a perfect world, both mount points are in the same horizontal plane, keeping the track/panhard bar, as close to perfectly level as possible. What that means is, the ARC that the diff end would travel in, since the other end is fixed, would be minimal. And that means, there would be minimal sideways action of that diff.

But, it's kind-a rare that the panhard/track bar is actually level. Typically it's got a slight down angle, based on a ton of geometry involved in the frame/suspension/axle location/mount points/etc.

Now, that takes care of the side-to-side movement. But, as stated, coils allow for other movements of the diff too, namely for and aft of the vehicle. The remedy for that are what's called CONTROLL ARMS. And, typically, there are four of them. There upper and lower control arms, two on each side, for limiting the forward and rearward movement of the diff.

But, as a bonus, the control arms provide one other stability action. They act the same as TRACTION BARS of the *yesteryear* hot rods. In other words, they completely eliminate what's called AXLE WRAP, or, the clockwise rotation of the differential, as observed from the side of the vehicle, caused by the torque of the drive shaft, reaction of the tires to the pavement.


So, that's how all that works. But, in the motorhome world, specifically leaf sprung coaches, that panhard or track bar, would be added for more body/frame stability vs differential movement. Well, does it work? Some folks swear by it. Others have claimed there was no difference after one was added. But again, all the intent of a panhard or track bar is, to limit the movement of the differential, to the left or right of the coach, not forward and backward. The leaf springs do that. Or, in the case of a diesel with air bag suspension, there are lower (only) control arms, they handle both axle wrap and forward and rearward movement of the diff.

Sorry for the long post. Hope it helps some.
Scott

[DesertRatt]

Originally Posted by FIRE UP

So, that's how all that works.

Scott

Thanks Scott!

[deucehotrods]

Originally Posted by DesertRatt

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I see that now. I think I will try all the known things to improve the ride and then see what I end up with. I really LIKE the Minnie Winnie. I think the construction is very good compared to previous RVs we owned (far better than our 2011 Airstream), and I like the idea of drive and go. I'm hoping it works out!

Stick with it, I'm sure you'll get it dialed in to a more pleasant ride and get used to it. I always avoid the potholes and look for the smoothest spot on the highway but its hard to avoid the pavement joints.

I love my 2005 Winnebago Adventurer 38R, the quality of engineering, fit and finish is much, much better than my previous 2002 Monaco La Palma. I like the "drive and go" aspect too and the ability to bring what ever towed or trailered vehicle I want. I can flat tow either my Suzuki Grand Vitara or my Samurai or what hot rod and motorcycle I have to bring on my trailer. If you decide to pull a trailer, get an all aluminum open trailer. Mine is an Aluma 7800 series 18' and it only weighs 1200 lbs! They cost about $2000 to $3000 more than an all steel trailer but weighs much less.

[2cyber71]

Let me help you.
1. Weigh your class c
2. Get the pressure/weight chart from the tire manufacturer
3. Set your tire pressure to the proper pressures according to your axle weights. If you can do 4 corners it would be better.
Your ride will be like night and day different from setting your pressures to the max.

If I used the 120 lb pressure for my tires on my Horizon,( the listed Max pressure on the vehicle) I would kill my suspension and rattle everything loose. I run 105 in all my tires because I weighed my MH with a full tank and all my usual stuff in it. It rides like a dream.

Next, the US interstate highways are a mess. They been holding off fixing things until the feds give out free money.
I just took the expensive Indiana Toll road from East to west.
Cost me $57 one way. It’s the worse stretch of I80/90 you will ever drive, the speed limit is 65-70. I barely go 50-55. Ohio cost me $25 one way and I90/80 is all brand new, they are finishing a stretch near Toledo and it done. Smooth state.

[gurroz]

Originally Posted by DesertRatt

That would seem to suggest your much newer Ford 450 has a better suspension design? Mine is 2004.
I have Bilstein shocks, steering damper and front and back Helwig sway bars and new tires.

Someone suggested my leaf springs might be worn out, but the chassis only had 15,000 miles!

DesertRatt, mine is built on the E350 chassis.

[AJMike]

Originally Posted by deucehotrods

I have to say that I-40 is the most miserable road in Arizona.

Sections of it are pretty bad, especially around Flagstaff, but personally I think there are worse. 89A is narrow and fairly wash-board up to the entry to the mountains and sections of I-10 were horrible until they finally repaved the sections from Quartzsite to Tonopah.

We used to take our RV to San Diego frequently until California closed some of their state campgrounds and we stopped using I-10 completely. We now take I-8 which is a much better road and has far less truck traffic. I assume those two things are related - much less traffic means much better road.

[DesertRatt]

AJ,
Thanks. We will try I-8 some time soon. Haven't been on it in years. I live right off the I10.

[Accipiter]

We test drove one and it was like driving a dump truck but when we got into and drove a Winnebago View we wouldn’t ever get a full sized class c again.

[Santee2]

First off, many roads, 10, 40 and AZ89 are very rough, I've never owned a DP, maybe those soften up roads like that. We have a 25B Class C and it rides ok, and I am pretty sensitive to rides. I did add a roadmaster steering stabilizer for more control. I think the person who mentioned tire pressure may be right. Good luck.