So much for the Ekko 24C

[AJMike]

Earlier this week the sales guy at the local RV store told me that they would have the Ekko models, both 22A and 24C, in for viewing and demos. I was not interested in the 22A because I am not willing to put up with a 5 gallon cartridge toilet and my wife is not willing to give up her "storage shed", also known as the separate shower, but I was interested in seeing the 24C.

The Ekko is appealing with its large Lithium batteries, large amount of solar, turn signal cameras, etc, etc, etc, and I was looking forward to seeing the 24C.

Today, when I was trying to compare some of the Ekko 24C features with those on the Navion/View I noticed that the Winnebago website only listed the 22A and specified that the Ekko came in 1 floor plan. I called the sales guy to ask about this and he called back, about 10 minutes later, to tell me that Winnebago has cancelled the 24C, at least in its current configuration. He said that the factory told him that the coach itself was too heavy for the chassis to be certified in all 50 states, so "Hasta la vista, baby" to the 24C. At least until it gets redesigned. I figure that is at least 6 months down the road. Plus the time to retool for it, plus the time to get them manufactured and out to the dealers.

Hard to understand how Winnebago engineers could have made that kind of mistake.

[DavidM]

Sad. I really liked the 24C but only if it is priced reasonably. The numbers I read, as much as $180k list, were not so reasonable.

David

[Phil G.]

Well, it appears to me that the Ekko 24C would be a great candidate to be built on the new V8 engined E450 cutaway chassis.

We appreciate being able to load up our 24 ft. Class C any way we wish due to it being built on an E450 chassis. Now ... if only it had the high-tech features of the Ekko!

[AJMike]

Obviously there is no way for me to know, but I assume that those who decide these kinds of things must realize that a more "livable" Ekko should be made to round out the Ekko line. The features of the Ekko - large Lithium battery, large amount of solar (for a roof that size), full insulation all around, high efficiency heater and AC, large inverter, all appliances, including the AC, capable of running off the batteries, and more - are so appealing to many, including me, that I am sure they will try to make them available on a coach designed for those who boondock a lot, but want more conveniences than the 22A offers.

I assume there will still be the larger Ekko, but I would think they would need to completely redesign it, decide what chassis to use, redesign/retool all of their manufacturing equipment for it, test it and so on, so I assume we are talking about next year, maybe later. What will be interesting will be to see if the other RV manufacturers pick up this idea and develop their own versions.

This was a particularly disappointing bit of news for us. We were out camping about a month ago and found ourselves in the middle of a rather strong wind storm. The gusts were strong enough to start the slide topper in the bedroom slide vibrating so much that I decided to close the slide to protect it, and since there is no really good place to sleep in the Fuse other than the bedroom slide I spent an annoying night trying to sleep on the dining room bench, which is only 24 inches wide. Combine that with how annoying it has been trying to get around what Winnebago laughingly calls a "walk around bed" in the middle of the night heading for the bathroom and I decided that I was going to look for a twin bed RV, and the Ekko was my vehicle of choice. Not sure where this leaves us now.

[DavidM]

You could have some but not all of the EKKO features by buying a Thor Axis 24.1 (I realize that this was your second choice when you bought the Fuse 23T) and adding solar, batteries and an inverter/charger.

The new Axis comes prewired for solar. There is plenty of roof space available on top of the Axis for about 600 watts of panels made up of 4, 150 watt panels wired two sets of three in series then in parallel. This is to live with the 10 gauge wire from the roof to the controller location. I don't think it would be all that easy to run bigger wire.

Replace the 10A PWM controller with a 50A MPPT and run #6 wire from the controller to the batteries. The existing battery compartment underneath the steps can take two Group 31 batteries, the size that most 100-125 Ah lithiums are built. There is an adjacent compartment that would hold 4 or more additional lithium batteries so you could have 600 Ahs if you wanted and would be easy to wire to the under step battery compartment to tie in to. With that much batteries you would have to do something to protect the chassis alternator from over heating. I don't have a good idea of what to do. Wonder what the do for the EKKO?

The Axis has no inverter and I think I would add a 100 amp/2,500 watt inverter/charger made by one of the quality marine suppliers like Victron, Magnum, Mastervolt, etc with an internal transfer switch. I think there is a place behind the kitchen drawers that would work to install it where you could access the batteries and the AC input to the main power panel.

All of this would cost roughly $1,000 for solar, $1,500 for the inverter/charger and whatever you want to spend on lithium batteries- as little as $560 per 100 Ah for SOKs or double that for Lithionics.

The Axis is not insulated like the EKKO is/was and it is not AWD and the build quality is a little cheap- particularly the thin paneling.

But if you want to go that way you could probably add all of the electrical stuff for $5,000 if you DIY maybe double that for professional installation. That gives you an out the door price of less than $100K.

BTW in your high wind situation you would have to bring in the sofa slide but it is still quite usable that way. The aft twins are fixed as you know.

FWIW Winnebago could resurrect the Via 25T and build it on the Sprinter AWD chassis with all of the features of the 24C and sell it for under $150K. That would be a nice, rugged dry camper and it would also look great. How much of a market there is for that kind of MH I rather doubt. Most campers go to hookup campsites.

David

[AJMike]

Originally Posted by DavidM

You could have some but not all of the EKKO features by buying a Thor Axis 24.1 (I realize that this was your second choice when you bought the Fuse 23T) and adding solar, batteries and an inverter/charger.

Yes. I know. In fact one of the first things I did when we got back from our trip was look for a 24.1 in this area. No luck and, in fact, the nearest I could find was in Texas. Now I don't have any problem with getting in the Fuse and driving to Texas to take a look, but DW is less than anxious to just go driving off looking for an RV that far away. There is a dealer about 100 miles from where we live that carries them, but when I called he told me that he would have one in about 8-10 weeks, but it is pre-sold.

We are looking for 2 things in any new RV - twin or island beds and some floor plan where I don't have to put out the slide to sleep. The 24.1 satisfies both of those, and I love the floor plan, but DW worries that it is too big. I point out to her that it is about the same length as the Fuse and only about 12 inches higher, but it looks a lot larger than that. Still, if there was one around here we would be browsing it today. And if we could see one I would probably be willing to pre-order one, although I have no idea how long a wait it would be.

If I could find one I would want to do the following:

1) install at least 200 AH of Lithium batteries. More would be better, but I probably don't need more than 300 AH, given the way we camp and move around.

2) install at least 400 watts of solar. More would be better, but I probably don't need more than 600 watts.

3) install a 2000 watt inverter so I could run everything off of the batteries for a short time. I could do without running the AC, but I would want to run the microwave and our small appliances - electric tea kettle and toaster.

4) install a DC-DC charger. I actually have an extra one of those in the garage - a Renogy 40 amp charger that was a replacement for the one that failed in our Fuse. The replacement took 8 months and I was forced to buy a new charger (Victron 30 amp) so the Renogy is new and just sitting there - and it would do fine, although I don't know where it could be installed in the 24.1. I don't know how the cabinets are laid out so I don't know where it could live.

5) I would want left and right turn signal cameras, but I don't know if those come standard on the unit. I assume those could be installed on a 24.1 if they were not already installed.

6) maybe nstall levelers. I have been using leveling blocks and I never have much trouble with them, but automatic levelers might be a nice upgrade.

As you point out all of this would be inexpensive on a 24.1 compared to the list price of the Ekko, but I have no idea where I can find one that is not already sold.

[DavidM]

This is what we did last September when I was keen on buying a new Axis 24.1:

There were no 24.1s for sale, new or used within a thousand miles of our Ct location. But a used 25.2 (or similar not sure of the number) came available in RI just a couple of hours east of us. So we went to look at it. It was a 2018 model and from researching pics and videos there was no difference from new except that the overhead cabinets had nice curved covers on the 2018 whereas new was flat. All else was the same. Make sure that you look at a 2018+ because the kitchen layout changed then plus other good and bad changes- the bad is the Girard tankless water heater. Oh and there is no longer an outside TV from 2021 forward.

The look and quality of the used 25.2 was fine so sight unseen I ordered a new 2021 24.1 from Albany RV in late September. It arrived in late January about 4 months later.

So consider that approach: look for any 2018+ to see how the coach looks overall then order from a nearby dealer. I suspect deliveries are still 4 months or more. But you never know. Albany RV got a new stock 24.1 in at the same time my 24.1 arrived. It has probably been sold by now. But keep checking with nearby dealers.

Sorry to hijack this thread to speak of a non Winnebago product.

David

[AJMike]

Originally Posted by DavidM

This is what we did last September when I was keen on buying a new Axis 24.1

Thanks for the suggestion.

What I did earlier today was call the "local" Thor Axis dealer (which is about 100 miles away) and asked him to let me know when any 24.1, new or used, came in so we could look at the inside. I assume that if we are happy with the inside I can special order one and when I asked about the time for a special order, I was told 12 weeks. I don't much believe that, but if they say 3 months perhaps it is not more than 4 months.

Most important thing is that I need to take DW to see it to make sure she is happy with it as well. And I do think a used one is just as good as a new one for looking at the inside, as long as it is not too old. Perhaps 2018 or later would be OK.

[SeeTheUSA]

AJMike ... what’s driving the change from your Fuse? They seem like nice rigs and you’ve made some really good upgrades.

[AJMike]

Originally Posted by SeeTheUSA

AJMike ... what’s driving the change from your Fuse? They seem like nice rigs and you’ve made some really good upgrades.

Perfectly reasonable question. Two things are going on here.

First, my wife and I are getting old enough that we have less and less patience in getting up in the middle of the night and trying to get to the bathroom. Shuffling around the bed next to the wall, the TV and the mattress is just getting harder and harder, and we are now both old enough to have to do this several times a night. The idea of twin beds, with each of us being able to just get up and get where we need to just sounds better and better.

The second thing is that the bedroom is in the slide. The more we camp the more we find we don't want to stay in regular campgrounds so the more we end up boondocking. That is great, but we have now found ourselves out camping in the middle of the desert in high winds, and those winds cause enough trouble for the slide topper that we end up bring the slide in for the night. Once we do that we have no decent place to sleep. The dining room bench is 24 inches wide, so I can not sleep there comfortably and my wife, who is pretty small, sleeps on the folded up queen bed, but can't get a decent night's sleep either. Not enough room even for her.

The alternatives are not appealing. We love RV-ing and do not want to give it up. We don't want regular campgrounds where the surroundings would help break up the wind, so we are faced with unpleasant choices. We can continue to use the Fuse, which we both like other than the issues with the high winds and the bed, and there are not many small twin bed models around. Added to that there are not many RVs for sale since the demand has skyrocketed and I am not willing to be robbed when we can choose to keep what we have.

Given all of that I don't know what will happen. My wife has decided that she would prefer not even having a slide, although I am more than willing to have one provided we don't need to open it to sleep. Our choices are few - Leisure Travel Vans (and an 18 month wait), Regency Ultra Brougham (a clone of the LTV, and quite nice, but moving away from Sprinter van chassis, so also probably not available for quite some time), Tiffin Wayfarer (DW does not like the dark interiors), Entegra Quest (which I have never seen), Ekko 24C (which now no longer is going to be made, at least as it was designed), Navion/View 24V (which is nice, but try to find one) and the Thor Axis/Vegas 24.1

All way too complex of a set of issues.

[creativepart]

RVT.com lists a total of 20-Ekko 24C's for sale. All of which are "on order" at dealerships. Seems odd that they have dumped that model (for now).

I do see that the model is now missing at winnebago.com.

[AJMike]

Originally Posted by creativepart

RVT.com lists a total of 20-Ekko 24C's for sale. All of which are "on order" at dealerships. Seems odd that they have dumped that model (for now).

Pretty much every Winnebago dealer I have spoken with in the last month or so told me that they have people with deposits already paid for the Ekkos, both the 22A and the 24C. The local sales guy here in the Mesa area told me that he just "sold" the last of the 24Cs that they had on order. He tried hard to get me to place a deposit for the last 24C, knowing that I was at least interested, but I told him I was not going to put a deposit, refundable or not, on a unit I have not seen.

I would think that all of those people who did put deposits down on the 24Cs will be getting a refund.

If what I was told about the reason for them dropping the model is correct I would assume there are some engineers with some explaining to do on their hands. How can it be that they would design and build a model that was not going to be able to be weight-certified in all 50 states?

[DavidM]

Originally Posted by AJMike

How can it be that they would design and build a model that was not going to be able to be weight-certified in all 50 states?

Having followed the same issue in new boat models, I can tell you that it is quite common to have your final weight come out much more than planned. Fortunately boats don't have a chassis weight limit like RVs do.

The builder and his engineers plan for a new model to come in at X pounds. Then some changes are made due to component unavailability or cost savings and no one goes back to check the overall weight. The first prototype then gets build and weighed and "Oh s*&^, we are way over our weight limit".

Then there is a struggle to meet the weight limit, but too often it is too late or too costly do make it work.

S*&^ happens that way all of the time.

David

[Santee2]

Take a look at the WInnebago 25B floor plan and then take 20K of the money you would have spent on the ECCO. Then take the other 80K and buy 20K in gold, 20K in silver and take some really cool vacations with the rest

[bobcat66]

aJMike,

What about a used Fuse 23A with the twin beds?

Jack
Mesa

[bobojay]

Go join the Winnebago Ekko Owners and Wannabees Facebook group for all the info you want on the EKKO.
According to the owners of the group, and other sources, there are several hundred 22As ordered with deposits around the country with Lichtsinn having somewhere around 100 of that number.
As for the C model, word is the prototype didn't meet their quality standards whatever that means.
Friday there is an informational video coming to the Facebook group after a live in person question and answer session by the Fit RV couple, James and Stefany in Iowa with Russ Garvin who is the WGO head of the class B and C division.
Hope this helps...

[Superboiler]

We were also looking forward to the Ekko Rv 24c and so this is a disappointment. To my knowledge, there is now no class c rv with twin beds and a slide out on the Ford transit chassis. There are several on the Sprinter but now there appears to be nothing on the Ford transit.

[DavidM]

Originally Posted by Superboiler

We were also looking forward to the Ekko Rv 24c and so this is a disappointment. To my knowledge, there is now no class c rv with twin beds and a slide out on the Ford transit chassis. There are several on the Sprinter but now there appears to be nothing on the Ford transit.

That is probably because the Ford Transit chassis' GVWR will not allow for all of the weight involved in a slide out. Apparently Winnebago discovered this too late in the development of the 24C.

David

[AJMike]

Originally Posted by Santee2

Take a look at the WInnebago 25B floor plan and then take 20K of the money you would have spent on the ECCO. Then take the other 80K and buy 20K in gold, 20K in silver and take some really cool vacations with the rest

I assume you are referring to the Minnie Winnie corner bed model. Our first RV had a corner bed and we promised ourselves we would never get another corner bed RV.

The reason we are looking for a twin bed model is so that both of us can get out of bed without having to climb over someone else, and that leaves out any corner bed.

[AJMike]

Originally Posted by bobcat66

aJMike,

What about a used Fuse 23A with the twin beds?

We looked at that before we bought the 23T, and the reason we did not buy it is that the toilet is right next to where our heads would be on the beds. Anyone getting up and using it in the middle of the night would wake up the other person, and the bathroom does not have a window for ventilation.