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Old 04-25-2022, 06:32 PM   #1
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Micro Minnie boondocking question

We are picking up our new 2021 Micro Minnie 1808FBS. It has the adventure package so it has solar. Has anyone done any boondocking with the stock components? If so, what was your use like and how long did you have power for? For those that modified, what did you go with and did that extend power? We are slightly familiar with solar - used it once with an off grid camper but it broke early in the trip. So kinda newbs. TIA
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Old 04-25-2022, 06:56 PM   #2
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I bought my rig when it was about 6 months used (no kidding) and found the stock battery horribly inadequate. Part of this was due to my own ignorance in both expectations and how to manage the battery. Part was also due to needing to run a cpap machine. In the end I did my own lithium install which has been night-and-day ever since. But not cheap :(.

My absolute first recommendation is for you to go out and get a shunt-based battery monitor. Maybe the adventure package already has one? If you know what kind of power you use, you will be A LOT smarter about what problems you need to solve. I'm a big fan of Victron and would recommend the SmartShunt 500 as you really only need the bluetooth interface with your phone. If you are on a serious budget (likely after such a big purchase!) you could go with the bayite DC 6.5-100V shunt that you'd find on amazon for less than $20.

If you are really new to travel trailers (sounds like not, but someone reading this might be), I'd also highly recommend you "camp" in your own yard if your neighborhood allows it. It's amazing how much you'll learn and you'll have the convenience of your own house when things aren't quite right.

Also, in my opinion, "camping" is correct thinking when boondocking. You need to think like you are camping with a tent, rather than converting your rig into some engineering marvel. I do understand the "fun" of doing the latter, though, so I won't criticize. For some, making it all work and customizing the RV is really the fun part. Hmm...I'm one of those
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Old 04-25-2022, 07:47 PM   #3
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The stock Micro Minnie is not equipped for boondocking at all. Period, full stop.

However 95% of trailers on the market are not equipped for boondocking. There are exceptions, like ORV, and Micro Minnie FLX, but for the most part manufacturers send you down the road only far enough to get to the next full hookup campground.

The number of consecutive days you can boondock in a Micro Minnie is pretty much dependent on how many amp hours you can store in your battery bank, and secondarily, what energy source will be employed to replace battery amp hours consumed. Think of your batteries as a bucket, or fuel tank. The bigger the bucket or tank, the further you can go. Similarly, think of your energy sources as a hose. The bigger the hose, the faster you can fill the bucket.

You need to decide how many consecutive days you want to be able to boondock before you decide to buy any upgrades.

Are you averse to using a generator? Generators can cure most evils when it comes to power sourcing. At some point you may want to abandon generator use altogether, so you can enjoy peaceful enjoyment of nature. But, no matter what, a generator is a must purchase, as it serves as a backup plan for all other power sources, and may be needed when other sources fail. Plan to spend $500-1,000 for a quality small generator from 2,200 to 3,500 watt rating psw output.

The next most important acquisition is to buy a bigger bucket. The Marine deep cycle battery that comes with your micro Minnie is wholly insufficient for any kind of boondocking. You can just spend a couple hundred bucks to upgrade the size of the bucket with lead acid technology, or spend three times as much to upgrade to LiFePo4 technology and gain a much bigger and better bucket.

We don’t know what kind of boondocking you’re planning, so it’s hard to say how far on the power continuum you need to be. And of course, we don’t know your budget. You can boondock comfortably for several days by increasing the size of your bucket to 100 useable amphrs, increasing the size of the hose to fill it with a $500 generator, and/or $300 of solar.

Our objective with our upgrades was to be able to boondock for three days without the use of generator. In most situations our upgrades have done just that. When there’s no sun for more than 2 days, we have to resort to generator to recharge our battery.

If your MM is equipped with a 12v compressor fridge, you will need to upgrade battery capacity to at least 100ah useable, and install 200w of mppt solar ( or resort to generator use), in order to dry camp for 3 days or more. On travel days, your tow vehicle’s alternator will produce enough juice through the 7-pin to power a 12v fridge. But if you don’t upgrade your battery, and you have a 12v fridge, boondocking is not in your future.

BTW: if you go with LiFePo4, 100% of its amphr rating is useable. If you go with Lead acid something less than 80% of its amphr rating is useable, and consistently using more than 50% will degrade the life of the battery. So, lead acid is cheaper to start with but LiFePo4 is cheaper in the long run. Also important to note that LiFePo4 has significant advantages, one of which is weight/ useable amphr: very important for small trailer owners.

Rimfire7,
We’ve spent about $4,000 on upgrades, alomost all of it DIY. If you cant handle a wrench, it’ll cost you more. Our upgrades perform to the level of boondocking without generator use we like to do: 3 consecutive days.

People spend much more, or a little less depending on what their boondocking needs are. If you provide more specifics about how you want to camp, what’s your budget, etc., there are dozens of members who want to guide you, and have fit right in your boondocking wheelhouse. Forget advice that would equip you to boondock for weeks at a time. Choose advise that matches with what you want out of your rv.
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Old 04-26-2022, 07:54 AM   #4
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The stock Micro Minnie is not equipped for boondocking at all. Period, full stop.

However 95% of trailers on the market are not equipped for boondocking. There are exceptions, like ORV, and Micro Minnie FLX, but for the most part manufacturers send you down the road only far enough to get to the next full hookup campground.

The number of consecutive days you can boondock in a Micro Minnie is pretty much dependent on how many amp hours you can store in your battery bank, and secondarily, what energy source will be employed to replace battery amp hours consumed. Think of your batteries as a bucket, or fuel tank. The bigger the bucket or tank, the further you can go. Similarly, think of your energy sources as a hose. The bigger the hose, the faster you can fill the bucket.

You need to decide how many consecutive days you want to be able to boondock before you decide to buy any upgrades.

Are you averse to using a generator? Generators can cure most evils when it comes to power sourcing. At some point you may want to abandon generator use altogether, so you can enjoy peaceful enjoyment of nature. But, no matter what, a generator is a must purchase, as it serves as a backup plan for all other power sources, and may be needed when other sources fail. Plan to spend $500-1,000 for a quality small generator from 2,200 to 3,500 watt rating psw output.

The next most important acquisition is to buy a bigger bucket. The Marine deep cycle battery that comes with your micro Minnie is wholly insufficient for any kind of boondocking. You can just spend a couple hundred bucks to upgrade the size of the bucket with lead acid technology, or spend three times as much to upgrade to LiFePo4 technology and gain a much bigger and better bucket.

We don’t know what kind of boondocking you’re planning, so it’s hard to say how far on the power continuum you need to be. And of course, we don’t know your budget. You can boondock comfortably for several days by increasing the size of your bucket to 100 useable amphrs, increasing the size of the hose to fill it with a $500 generator, and/or $300 of solar.

Our objective with our upgrades was to be able to boondock for three days without the use of generator. In most situations our upgrades have done just that. When there’s no sun for more than 2 days, we have to resort to generator to recharge our battery.

If your MM is equipped with a 12v compressor fridge, you will need to upgrade battery capacity to at least 100ah useable, and install 200w of mppt solar ( or resort to generator use), in order to dry camp for 3 days or more. On travel days, your tow vehicle’s alternator will produce enough juice through the 7-pin to power a 12v fridge. But if you don’t upgrade your battery, and you have a 12v fridge, boondocking is not in your future.

BTW: if you go with LiFePo4, 100% of its amphr rating is useable. If you go with Lead acid something less than 80% of its amphr rating is useable, and consistently using more than 50% will degrade the life of the battery. So, lead acid is cheaper to start with but LiFePo4 is cheaper in the long run. Also important to note that LiFePo4 has significant advantages, one of which is weight/ useable amphr: very important for small trailer owners.

Rimfire7,
We’ve spent about $4,000 on upgrades, alomost all of it DIY. If you cant handle a wrench, it’ll cost you more. Our upgrades perform to the level of boondocking without generator use we like to do: 3 consecutive days.

People spend much more, or a little less depending on what their boondocking needs are. If you provide more specifics about how you want to camp, what’s your budget, etc., there are dozens of members who want to guide you, and have fit right in your boondocking wheelhouse. Forget advice that would equip you to boondock for weeks at a time. Choose advise that matches with what you want out of your rv.
Really helpful info, Jim. Thank you. I think we are in the same boat as you - boondocking for 2-3 days at a time in between full hook up campgrounds. We go out for 57-17 days at a time and travel to about 3 areas. we love forest campgrounds but only for about 2-4 days. lol then we need amenities. Totally on board with upgrading the lithium. I think we need to do it right away but my husband is more cautious with researching. We have until May 21 before the big trip out west so we are camping in it at least twice before we go. This weekend will be the first trip. We had an RV before and we could switch the fridge between electric and propane. I am not sure the MM has that option. But it was nice to have.
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Old 04-26-2022, 07:54 AM   #5
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Jim (Marine359), what a great post!

We see this question a lot and your response perfectly answered the question.

Thumbs up!
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Old 04-26-2022, 08:16 AM   #6
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Rimfire's pet husband here. Thanks to y'all for the information.

Couple of bits of fun, based on your comments:
  • It appears we do have 190W solar panel on board, which will help. Now, how good that panel ends up being is something we'll find out over time. But that's at least a start to this whole process.
  • I'm not anti-lithium and, after figuring out what the actual issue was with the cold and that style of battery, I'm on board upgrading to lithium. Weight savings, more capacity, etc. Totally agree they're more expensive - but over the long haul, worth it.
  • We tend to end up out west for many of our trips, so we hit both extremes on the weather. Cool/cold times in mountains, all sorts of fun hot in Moab and other parts. Given that we'll likely also want to run the AC at times. I'm contemplating a soft start for that along with the upgraded battery banks. Wouldn't be something we could run all the time, obviously - but there are times when it's needed.
  • We do have the 12v fridge, so yeah, capacity increase needed for that, too.
  • We're also looking at a gennie. I've just started doing the research, but I'm hearing good things about WEN's 56380i. That should be more than enough for what we need, it's quiet, and not overly heavy.

We'll be going out in it soon enough and will test the battery capacity. Right now we don't have anything more than an overnight boondock planned, but that's subject to change quickly.
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Old 04-26-2022, 09:17 AM   #7
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Given that we'll likely also want to run the AC at times. I'm contemplating a soft start for that along with the upgraded battery banks. Wouldn't be something we could run all the time, obviously - but there are times when it's needed.
Let me comment about the above desire to run the A/C on batteries while boondocking... I'd get that out of your plans right up front.

Run the A/C on a generator. Period.

Can people run the A/C on batteries? Well, yes, with a large enough budget to provide a big enough battery bank and some way to recharge it (solar if you are anti-generator) you can run your A/C for an hour or maybe even an hour and half. But then your batteries will be depleted and you won't be able to do anything else - nothing.

Unless you plan on adding 400 plus amp hours of lithium batteries it's just not going to happen. And, adding a soft start isn't enough either. You'll need a 3000w inverter, and much more robust charging systems, and large battery cables. Totaling what? $5k or $6k expenditure? And that's to get maybe 2 hours of cool air.

However, with a $2k investment in a generator you run the A/C all day or all night. Plus you'll still have a full battery bank of power after all is cooled off.

This is a very common misconception. That if I just put in a soft start and buy a lithium battery I can run the A/C a little. Sorry, but it just doesn't work out that way.

So, it's best to plan on getting a generator like Marine359 said in his excellent synopsis above. And, get that 100ah LiPo battery and head on out into the wild.
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Old 04-26-2022, 09:22 AM   #8
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The idea that all TTs cannot boondock is quite an exaggeration in my view but accurate if it applies to DC fridge equipped campers. A DC fridge will pull at least 50 amp hours daily. Added to other loads the total will easily be 75 amp hours daily.

You will need a bigger bucket, probably 200 amp hours of lithium batteries and if you camp in open areas then 200 watts or greater of solar panels. If you camp in shaded areas then you will need a generator and an upgraded Li capable converter.

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Old 04-26-2022, 10:28 AM   #9
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Upgrading to LiFePo4 is non-trivial, because if you pay for that, you’ll want to pay for a 2000w hybrid inverter/charger capable of charging it to its design profile, and to its maximum charge acceptance rate. Since I’ve done that upgrade mostly DIY, I can tell you it’s not an easy project. OP might be better served by just upgrading his lead acid capacity before his May trip. He can pick up a couple of 6v GCs pretty cheap, and if he later wants to upgrade to LiFePo4, he won’t have lost much on the GC purchase. Plus GCs can use his existing charger. With a 12v fridge and 190w solar, he can boondock 3 days with about 120 useable amphrs. So, with 2x 100ah 6v is a big enough bucket for his immediate needs. My advice is hold off on expensive upgrades until you get some miles under you.

JMHO here: For generator, the Wen 56380i weighs a whopping 100lbs, but the price is great. I favor a smaller, lighter, propane fired generator paired with an easy start for when you want to run the A/C. If you run exclusively on propane, there is no worry about storing the gennie in your pass thru. It doesn’t take long to tire of schlepping around a 100lb generator, and it’s gasoline tank, which has to be replenished every 8 hours before you start imagining an easier solution. $600 for a 2500w 39lb propane generator, and $250 for an easy start, which takes about an hour to install and train. You can run the gennie off your onboard propane QD or carry an extra 20lb bottle which will run the generator for over 30 hrs.

BTW, we sometimes boondock for more than three consecutive days, but we aren’t averse to a 2 hr generator run to charge back up. And yes, with a 12v fridge, you’re gonna eat 75 amphrs per day total consumption; 50 of it for the fridge.
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Old 04-27-2022, 08:47 PM   #10
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Following with great interest. Jim's summary is the best I've seen so far as I've struggled to sort things out while still using the Interstate battery that came with our 1706FB 2 years ago. I've purchased and carry a 100 watt Renogy solar suitcase with adapters for both the Zamp connector on the side of the trailer and my old Goal Zero 400 power station which I keep for running the CPAP if needed.

Looking into boondocking but not sure I'm ready to go full Lithium at this point; the inverter and its installation are just more expensive than I think worth it right now. However, Victron's 125 Ah AGM Super Cycle battery has caught my eye, as has the dual fuel Champion 2500 watt generator. So I have a plan. But the Smart Shunt comes first.

Which leads to my question: what's the best thinking as far as locating it so that the bluetooth signal works well and there's a minimum of wiring and penetrations and maximum of protection for the device itself. I'm curious if you could tap off of connections at the breaker panel under the refrigerator on this model or if I have to locate it in the front storage basement.

Many thanks in advance for your thoughts.
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Old 04-27-2022, 09:46 PM   #11
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Hi Trout One,
The Bluetooth negative smart shunt should be connected as close to the battery as possible. The negative cable from the battery gets connected to “battery negative” side of the shunt. All dc loads must be connected to “load negative” side of the shunt. Failure to connect the shunt properly will give you inaccurate readings. The amount of wiring you must do is inconsequential, as you’re just using the existing wires, and inserting the shunt. There is also a small gauge red wire that gets connected to a positive terminal to power the shunt. My Victron smart shunt has about 8ft of range when I’m outside the trailer, but will read accurately anywhere inside the trailer. Any generator less than 3000w is not likely to run your A/C without an easy start. If want small gen, get the easy start. You don’t need to upgrade to Lithium, but you will need a bigger bucket.
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Old 04-27-2022, 10:23 PM   #12
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Every one wants a small, light and quiet generator and not pay much for it.

We bought 2-Honda 2000i generators when we owned travel trailers. We carried both in the back of our tow vehicle. They each weighed about 37 lbs. They were very quiet and started on the first pull. When paired together they easily ran our A/C on the TT.

When traveling though Texas on our way to cooler temps we’d use both. Once we reached higher elevations we could use just one for microwaving and battery recharging.

They were super convenient. They didn’t use a lot of gas and outside of once a year oil changes needed zero maintenance.

Way back when we bought them they were expensive for the time. But we used them for ten full years.

When we moved to motorhomes with built in generators we sold the Hondas. The final cost after resale was $30 per year for each one. You can’t get better value than that.

Buying good quality equipment pays for itself in the long run.
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Old 04-28-2022, 08:39 AM   #13
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We bought 2-Honda 2000i generators when we owned travel trailers. We carried both in the back of our tow vehicle. They each weighed about 37 lbs. They were very quiet and started on the first pull. When paired together they easily ran our A/C on the TT.
...
Buying good quality equipment pays for itself in the long run.
I totally agree. I picked up a Honda EU2200i and immediately converted it to propane with the Hutch Mountain kit. I personally think this is even better, at least for my situation, as I don't have to haul gas, nor do I have to smell gas when I load it up in the back of my SUV. It's heavy enough, but less than softener salt so I can handle it . Perhaps the new little propane Champions can match this at a lesser price, but for me the Honda track record seemed to be a no-brainer.
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Old 04-28-2022, 01:45 PM   #14
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Honda is the gold standard. I’m too poor to buy one, so I had to settle.
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Old 04-28-2022, 07:59 PM   #15
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Honda is the gold standard. I’m too poor to buy one, so I had to settle.

I'm in complete agreement on all counts. It's a fact the Hondas run forever if well maintained; I've had one of their small tillers for 15 years as but one example but really not sure it's worth twice the price for the amount of traveling we can do before we can't anymore. I'll be curious how well a Champion holds up under occasional use, say intermittent periods of several weeks travel and not every day even then. A friend just did the Champion 2500 propane and softstart combo; I'll be awaiting his thoughts once his family returns from a lengthy trip to Vancouver and back later this summer. He says he's expecting to spend plenty of time off-grid, if not off-road.

As we tend to travel against the weather so we can be in mild temperatures where A/C isn't so critical; I think my first order of business is the Smart Shunt install (thanks for the info on where to install it, Jim) with the new Victron 125 Ah AGM battery (https://invertersrus.com/product/victron-agm-batteries/). I like how much like a Lithium it's claimed to behave in terms of discharge capacity. After seeing how that does with the 100 watts of solar, I'll gather my pennies and go for the Champion and the softstart. Learned a long time ago to make one change at a time and assess instead of making a bunch of changes all at once and trying to figure out what worked.
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Old 04-29-2022, 03:57 AM   #16
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Jim (Marine359), what a great post!
We see this question a lot and your response perfectly answered the question.
Thumbs up!
100% agree. This should be a sticky somewhere.
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Old 04-29-2022, 05:23 AM   #17
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ReGarding the Champion df, I’ve had mine for 18 months.
I had a Honda 2000 many years ago, and it was a dream. Sold it on Craigs list for almost what I paid for it. I switched because I didn’t want to carry gasoline, and the Champion is the lightest weight (39 lbs) small generator. I’m an old guy, and it’s easy to put it into the pass thru. That’s safe storage because I never run on gasoline.
First thing I did with the Champion is install an hour meter. Next, break-in run and an oil change. I dont have a ton of hours on it, but when it reaches 50% of the recommended oil change interval, I change the oil. It’s notoriously hard to start on propane, until you discover the “secret” of starting it easier. If it lasts for 4 years, I’ll feel it was a good purchase at $600. So far, not missing the Honda at all. I carry a spare 20lb propane tank in the truck bed, primarily to fire the generator. It will run about 30 hours on a Blue Rhino, which is not even a full tank when you buy/exchange it. You can also hook up to the trailer propane QD if you do a mod to it’s regulator. But, I think the extra tank is a better idea, so you can place the generator as far away as your SP cable will allow.

If you don’t mind carrying and using gasoline, buy a Honda, and never buy a generator again.
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Old 04-29-2022, 08:16 PM   #18
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If it lasts for 4 years, I’ll feel it was a good purchase at $600. So far, not missing the Honda at all. I carry a spare 20lb propane tank in the truck bed, primarily to fire the generator. It will run about 30 hours on a Blue Rhino, which is not even a full tank when you buy/exchange it. You can also hook up to the trailer propane QD if you do a mod to it’s regulator.
The Hutch Mountain propane setup for the Honda also was hard to start until you learn how to prime it. They say to push the button quickly 5 times (or something like that). I found it needs much more. I just started mine for the first time this season and it started up on the 4th pull. Subsequent starts were on the first pull.

I went with the quick disconnect with a 10ft hose. What I really like is their recommendation to kill the engine by cutting off the propane. Just turn the handle on the quick disconnect and off it goes. Hopefully the Champion regulator isn't too hard to mod. I don't plan to ever put gas in the generator, but never say never. In a pinch it's nice to know I could get some gas and go that way if needed. Same for the Champion, of course.
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