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Old 03-03-2021, 06:55 PM   #21
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black tank tricks

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Originally Posted by AJMike View Post
I seem to be having some trouble with my black water tank.

On our previous trip the gauge told me that the tank was full, but when I emptied it there was not nearly enough fluid to account for dumping a 43 gallon black water tank. My thought was that the gauges were just not accurate so on our last trip I actually kept on eye on the level in the tank itself by peering down the toilet when it was open. Ugh.

This time I knew it was full because the fluid level was almost up to the toilet itself, but when I again emptied it it only seemed to dump perhaps 5 or 10 gallons, based on how much fluid I could see in the transparent 90 degree bend that goes into the dump tank, and it showed as being 2/3 full even after repeated rinsing with the black water fill hose. I could see no fluid in the tank when I looked in the toilet, but the tank seems to angle right under the toilet and I could not see the rest of the tank.

I worry that during one of our night time visits to the toilet something like a washcloth or towel might have fallen into the toilet and been flushed down, and it might be preventing the tank from emptying properly, but the only way I know to be sure is to remove the toilet and look. The problem is that I don't know how to remove the toilet, or if there is a better way to check.

Looking for a way out of this nasty job I checked Google to see if any shops around here do that sort of work, but I could not find any, and I have to admit that I would not like to have that as my primary job either, so perhaps I will have to do it.

Can anyone suggest any other way to check to see if there is something in the black tank preventing it from draining properly? Or even if there is any fluid still in the tank? Or any easy way to remove the toilet? The tank is not transparent or even translucent so I can not see the level by shining a light into the toilet and looking at the outside of the tank. And with the tank seeming to angle away from the toilet drop I can not see the bottom by looking. Perhaps there is some waterproof camera on a bendable rod that I could insert to look, but I don't know where I could find something like that, or even what name to browse for on the internet.

Any help would be appreciated.

It's supposed to "angle off" from the toilet. Do you use some sort of oxygenating or enzymatic chemicals in it? https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/...?ie=UTF8&psc=1 That can really help a lot. I also dump about 1/2 C of cheap liquid fabric softener after each emptying. Never rely on the gauges - they are just a failed technology. Odds are much more likely that the clog has nothing to do with dropping a rag down there. TP is a major offender, especially if it's been allowed to dry along the sides of the tank. It's like plaster of paris after that.


You can buy a wand that goes down the toilet, and has a rotating sprayer on the end to help loosen up the crud.https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/...?ie=UTF8&psc=1 I've found that helpful at times. I also use a water macerator, which fits over the bayonet spout and uses water pressure to draw the stuff down into a 1" hose and into the sewer. The water pressure shoots up into the tank, plus it breaks up the solids rather like a blender, and flushes it right down. You can also turn it up so it flushes up into the tank, then back so it draws the water back down and out.


Once you get it cleared, I have a suggestion. It sounds a bit gross, but it's not really too bad. We have a small trash can with a self-closing lid that sits right next to the toilet. After you wipe, you just put it directly into that trash and close the lid, rather than flushing it. It's surprisingly free of odors! We use Citrus Magic pure citrus oil spray to deodorize. It works a LOT better than perfume-ey air fresheners, and a clogged black tank is a thing of the past! We also only need to empty it about half as often!
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Old 03-03-2021, 07:00 PM   #22
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Please let us know how this works out.
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Old 03-03-2021, 09:53 PM   #23
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Old 03-03-2021, 09:56 PM   #24
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First, thank you, all of you, for the replies. The fact is that I had not thought of many of these methods to solve the problem, and I am going to try a couple of them....
Perhaps I am wrong and there is no problem, but I don't see how my wife and I can fill up a 43 gallon black tank (that is what the specs say the tank size is) in 5 days unless it is not fully draining.


Please let me know of any other suggestions as these have been very helpful.

On your coach both the toilet and bathroom sink drain into the black tank so yes its totally possible that 2 people could fill the 40 gallon black tank in 5 days. Just a couple of 1 gallon flushes per person per day could add up to 20 gallons in five days then add how many times you brush your teeth and otherwise use the bathroom sink and you might be surprised how quickly it adds up. Personally with 4 in my coach, 3 of which are women (comprised of the wife and 2 adult daughters) I end up emptying the same size black tank in my coach just about daily just to play it safe and keep it clear.

You could also just borrow a portable waste tank and see how many times you can fill it up. A 40 gallon black tank would fill a 10 gallon portable 4 times. This could be done next time your at a campsite.

If you do not have a flush system installed in your coach you may want to consider getting at least a Flush King so you can back flush your tanks each time you dump them to help keep things clean and flowing freely.

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Old 03-04-2021, 06:34 AM   #25
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If you do not have a flush system installed in your coach you may want to consider getting at least a Flush King so you can back flush your tanks each time you dump them to help keep things clean and flowing freely.

I was just going to post the same recommendation. Repeated backflushing and draining should open things up if there is a clog at the outlet.
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Old 03-04-2021, 07:53 AM   #26
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Thanks for all this help.

The first thing I did was to get a snake camera and feed it down into the tank from the toilet side, but I could see nothing. The camera itself probably did not have anything to focus on so all of the photos beyond the drop-down pipe were blurry, but nothing I saw indicated that there was something preventing it from fully draining. I will do the same from the drain side as soon as we are at some site where I can drain it and check.

I have been using some blue liquid from CampingWorld (yes, I know about CampingWorld) to dissolve the solids in the black tank and I would have thought that it would also have helped dissolve any solids clogging the gauges (if there are gauges in the tank. I don't know).

The RV has a black tank fill and I have used it the last couple of times that I have dumped, but it does not seem to have helped. I don't know how it actually works in that I don't know if it sprays from nozzles at the top of the tank or if it just fills from the top or bottom, but I have used it enough times so that the drain is relatively clear, but I still have this issue. I can tell when the tank is full by looking down the toilet, but that is the only way.

Perhaps a back fill using some hose at the drain plug would be better than the black tank fill value because it (the back fill) would be able to clear any obstruction in the drain. I will look into that.

One of the problems is that we so rarely use regular campgrounds that just camping at one and using the site's drain for repeated drains and flushing just never occurred to me, so thank yoou for that suggestion. We have a trip scheduled in the next week or two and I will try that.
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Old 03-04-2021, 08:21 AM   #27
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One big thing that is not mentioned often is the recommended procure! I doubt that 50 % of the folks who have trouble do it but the book does sometimes tell us to always have some large amount of water in the tank before we dump. Some books skip the idea. Something like half or more?

I've forgotten what amount it says but it does make sense that a full tank does come out with much more force and it is much more likely to carry any solids out with it! If you do have problems with getting the tank cleared, it may be worthwhile to look over the process you are using as some small changes can make a difference.
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Old 03-04-2021, 08:36 AM   #28
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One big thing that is not mentioned often is the recommended procure! I doubt that 50 % of the folks who have trouble do it but the book does sometimes tell us to always have some large amount of water in the tank before we dump. Some books skip the idea. Something like half or more?

I've forgotten what amount it says but it does make sense that a full tank does come out with much more force and it is much more likely to carry any solids out with it! If you do have problems with getting the tank cleared, it may be worthwhile to look over the process you are using as some small changes can make a difference.
Given how unpleasant the job is I am never anxious to do it, and I never do unless the tank is at least 3/4 full. Most of the time I dump because I have to or risk some kind of overflow.

One interesting thing is the actual process. For the 15 or so years that we have been RVing I have mostly followed the same set of steps:

1) hook up the drain hose, making sure it is tightened well and well connected to the dump,
2) pull the black tank handle and allow it to fully drain. That includes making sure that the drain hose is empty by picking it up near the RV to force the liquid out of it,
3) Use the black flush hose if I have that connection, or fill containers with water to add to the black tank through the toilet and make sure the liquid drains,
4) Close the black tank value and open the grey tank valve,
5) Follow step 2 above for it,
6) Close grey tank value,
7) Clean the drain hose with water, disconnect hose, reconnect drain cover on both the dump and the RV drain connection

This has always seemed like the right way to do this, but the other day I saw a walk-around video for a Class A RV that looked like it was aimed at new RV buyers. It was very complete and included the steps to drain the black and grey tanks, but the guy doing the video stressed that the grey tank should be emptied while the black tank valve was still open, and that was new to me.

He followed the same steps as above except step 4 did not include closing the black tank value, and it was not closed until he also closed the grey tank value in step 6.

What would be the purpose of that? Or is it just something that can be done either way? Or have I been doing this wrong all this time?
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Old 03-04-2021, 11:41 AM   #29
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I would call that a shortcut method to do "some" limited flushing of the black tank drain using the grey water. There will be some water from the grey go into the black drain and flush some out but it is not likely to go up into the black tank and do much there as it has the easy route to go down and out the lower drain tube.

If they feel it works for them, I don't see any big downside as both grey and black are far more polluted than I like to deal with, making the issue fo cross pollution not big enough for me to worry.

But on the other hand, is the benefit of using polluted grey water to semi-flush part of the black enough to do it when we might have access to clean water to use to do a far better flush of both grey and black tanks?
Nothing terribly wrong with it, but is it worth the effort if we could use clean water almost as easily?

But videos are not meant to inform, nearly as much as to sell ads, so if they put a different spin on things, it may make their site stand out among the hundreds of others, doing the same thing!
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Old 03-04-2021, 07:17 PM   #30
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A factory installed tank rinse is often a rotary tornado head which helps get the sensors cleared of paper and other debris. The factory tank flush on my 2001 Adventurer is a Tornado Type Rotary Head. I run it for 5 to 10 minutes when I flush my tank on the day I leave the campsite or at least once a week during an extended stay.

I prefer to use the less caustic enzyme based tank treatments since many of the campgrounds I frequent are not on city sewers having septic tanks and leach fields.

One thing that can help is raising the jacks on the side opposite the tank drains to give things a little more encouragement to flow towards the drain.

A rinse wand connected to a garden hose that you insert down the open toilet flush valve has helped some get their tanks cleaned out too especially if they have developed a black tower/pyramid on the bottom of the tank under the toilet.
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Old 03-04-2021, 07:35 PM   #31
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Just an FYI, I use a slightly different camera. I handle things that go “Boom” for a living, and for a couple of years have used this one for work, and now on my Minnie Winnie, yes, even the black tank. The biggest difference is that it has a rechargeable battery pack and connects to the phone via Bluetooth. If, worst case scenario, I drop it in, my PHONE is NOT going swimming! IP67 waterproof, and with 10’ of range, can go way on down a pipe, up an I beam, etc.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06XSDF8Y5...ing=UTF8&psc=1
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Old 03-05-2021, 07:48 AM   #32
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Just an FYI, I use a slightly different camera. I handle things that go “Boom” for a living, and for a couple of years have used this one for work, and now on my Minnie Winnie, yes, even the black tank. The biggest difference is that it has a rechargeable battery pack and connects to the phone via Bluetooth. If, worst case scenario, I drop it in, my PHONE is NOT going swimming! IP67 waterproof, and with 10’ of range, can go way on down a pipe, up an I beam, etc.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06XSDF8Y5...ing=UTF8&psc=1
I also decided that I did not want my phone in the black tank so I bought a bluetooth camera, and it looks like the baby brother of yours:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

After using it I began to believe that I had not, in fact, dropped anything into the tank because I do not see anything. Of course things are blurry but I suppose that is because there is nothing for the camera lens to focus on, and I suppose that is a good thing.

On our next trip I will stop at a regular campground, dump the tank again and use the camera from the dump side, hoping I don't end up looking like Robin Williams in the movie RV.
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Old 03-05-2021, 08:16 AM   #33
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Before we had an RV with a black tank flush I used the system NeilV posted in post #24. It worked great.

Since I have a black tank flush I pretty much do as everyone else. Except... I don’t just flush the tank I refill it with the black tank flush. I dump the black (with the flush running) then close the black valve and leave the flush running for five minutes. I set an alarm on my watch to insure I don’t wander off.

Five minutes fills the tank 3/4 full. At the 5 min Mark I pull the valve and watch the clear end of the hose outlet. If we are leaving a place I’ll do this as many times as it takes to stop seeing anything but water exit the hose. This routinely takes as many as four refills and dumps. It’s always a surprise after three full refill dumps to see really clear water and then suddenly more material pass out of the hose.

This does take 20 minutes or more, but I’m doing other jobs while this happens and counting on my watch alarm to keep things from getting ugly.

I do use only “septic safe” TP and drop in black tank packets.
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Old 03-05-2021, 08:36 AM   #34
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Before we had an RV with a black tank flush I used the system NeilV posted in post #24. It worked great.

Since I have a black tank flush I pretty much do as everyone else. Except... I don’t just flush the tank I refill it with the black tank flush. I dump the black (with the flush running) then close the black valve and leave the flush running for five minutes. I set an alarm on my watch to insure I don’t wander off.

Five minutes fills the tank 3/4 full. At the 5 min Mark I pull the valve and watch the clear end of the hose outlet. If we are leaving a place I’ll do this as many times as it takes to stop seeing anything but water exit the hose. This routinely takes as many as four refills and dumps. It’s always a surprise after three full refill dumps to see really clear water and then suddenly more material pass out of the hose.

This does take 20 minutes or more, but I’m doing other jobs while this happens and counting on my watch alarm to keep things from getting ugly.

I do use only “septic safe” TP and drop in black tank packets.
That is interesting. I always thought that the black tank was sealed and that if I added water with the toilet closed and the dump valve closed the increase in pressure from the added water would rupture the tank. Given that, I never tried to fill it with the drain value closed.
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Old 03-05-2021, 09:23 AM   #35
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That is interesting. I always thought that the black tank was sealed and that if I added water with the toilet closed and the dump valve closed the increase in pressure from the added water would rupture the tank. Given that, I never tried to fill it with the drain value closed.
Not sealed at all. There is a vent pipe in the top of the black tank that goes right up to the roof to vent the tank. Otherwise it would pressurize.

Pretty typical plumbing as with a house. All plumbing is vented.

Also, if you forget about opening the black tank valve you run the risk of black tank "contents" spewing out of the vent pipe on the roof.
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Old 03-05-2021, 04:15 PM   #36
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Not sealed at all. There is a vent pipe in the top of the black tank that goes right up to the roof to vent the tank. Otherwise it would pressurize.

Pretty typical plumbing as with a house. All plumbing is vented.

Also, if you forget about opening the black tank valve you run the risk of black tank "contents" spewing out of the vent pipe on the roof.
Learned something new today. Thanks.
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Old 03-05-2021, 04:56 PM   #37
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Not sealed at all. There is a vent pipe in the top of the black tank that goes right up to the roof to vent the tank. Otherwise it would pressurize.

Pretty typical plumbing as with a house. All plumbing is vented.

Also, if you forget about opening the black tank valve you run the risk of black tank "contents" spewing out of the vent pipe on the roof.
This is right but with a small difference due to the odd way your Rv is built with the vanity sink draining into the black tank rather than the grey tank as we normally find.
On your specific Rv, the parts catalog shows the vanity plumbing and if the black tank were to overflow radically, the first point it might come out is the vanity! But that is assuming the stool has a really good seal to hold it in at that point.
Coming out on the roof might actually be the better choice?
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Old 03-22-2021, 08:49 PM   #38
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Catalog

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Thanks for the 3D parts catalog. ��
Wyatt, could you please provide that 3D parts catalog link again?
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Old 03-22-2021, 09:15 PM   #39
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Black tank treatment

I used to only use drop in tablets. Never seemed to break down the rv tp all the way. Even had an odor issue in the mh. Solved all the clog/cleaning issues by switching to Happy Camper. Works like a charm. Broke down everything in the tank and smell is gone. Also, had a friend who bought a used rv with black tank issues (clogs and horrendous smell). I recommended trying happy camper and they were able to unclog and clean it out. Bye bye smell and issues.
If you can’t clear your clog with this stuff probably need a professional to deep clean the tank. Also I use a gate (camcorder rhino blaster) and can backfill the black or gray tanks to ensure they are clean.
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Old 03-22-2021, 11:32 PM   #40
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Wyatt, could you please provide that 3D parts catalog link again?
Brain fart, can’t seem to find
Here you go...

https://catalog3d.winnebagoind.com/menu/Parts.htm
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