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Old 06-19-2014, 08:31 AM   #21
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I tend to agree with many of the posts regarding poor quality. My wife keeps pestering to get a different mh, but after my experience with my coach in the initial 2-3 years of ownership with a purchased new coach, I am totally afraid to buy another new coach. I bought my coach to enjoy, not to be a slave to getting all the bugs out. I am so tired of hearing that the service center is the last 200 feet of the assembly line! Additionally, I don't think any manufacturer has figured it out yet. I have heard horror stories from Marathon/Prevost all the way down the line. The best explanation that I have heard, is that these are complex things manufactured by humans! RVs really are a nice way to travel to and from service centers.
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Old 06-19-2014, 08:35 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by bigd9 View Post
in my opinion, motorhomes are being built like car manufactures built cars back in the 60's and 70's. Not much qaqc and there was always something to fix. Then a foreign nation stepped in and said "this is how you build cars" and almost put our manufactures out of business.

Most of the problems we see on a new unit are qaqc related. At a car manufacturing plant near us, every person on the assembly line has the big red stop button to stop the line to be able to fix something they see as a problem. Proper qaqc does not cost money, but saves money is fewer returns, better customer satisfaction, and better employee attitude which is results in a employee doing a better job the next time and taking the time to do it right.
right on
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Old 06-19-2014, 08:36 AM   #23
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RVs really are a nice way to travel to and from service centers.

Cbones, you hit that nail squarely on the head. As long as the service centers are along the route of your adventure. 👍😬
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Old 06-19-2014, 08:57 AM   #24
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Our present coach is our 5th. The last three have been Winnebago products. They have always been pre-owned and we have not had many problems considering each time we purchased we had more gadgets to maintain. I expect the first owner may have had his issues. I saved the first two years of depreciation and all the gray hair and that is how I like to purchase a coach. I will state if I purchase a newer one it will be a Winnebago product.

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Old 06-19-2014, 08:59 AM   #25
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I think RV, autos, houses, etc, etc are becoming the subject of a working poplulation that are or have lost the craftsmanship aspect of working.

How much am I going to get paid, what are the benefits, how much annual vacation, when is coffee break, how much is my bonus?

It is all too easy to "just let it slide" because they will catch it in the next work station or in QA.

That coupled with the "we have to make a profit" to satisfy the share holders attitude by management. After all management bonus depends upon happy shareholders. I see the CEO of GM was hauled up to explain hiding a defect for over 10 years.

I know there are a number of good workers out there who are trying to do their best. But a lot of the time they are dragged down because they see the shoddy product produced by fellow workers who continue to get the same perks and benefits without the effort.

Just as an example look at our politicians and the idealistic new representative who is going to improve all of the things that are bad. Within a few years they are defending the things they were going to change.

Yet we expect everyone else to give us the best product.
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Old 06-19-2014, 10:52 AM   #26
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If airplanes were built like motorhomes those of us who flew would no longer be on this side of the earth. It is shocking to see how many constant problem issues we have with our coaches. It does not matter who the manufacturer is, we all have issues. It is almost as if we all have become numb and just expect them. With legitimate quality construction, care for customers, pride of company and quality control there truly would be improvement. We love traveling and being in our coach but really is there not a company out there who does it right? We are Winnebago Product Class A owners and are going on 76 issues on a new off the lot coach. Please do not ask me to list them. It would take an hour or more to write them up and explain the problems.
I have to agree with everything you stated, and it's exactly how I've felt for years. I'm always surprised at the issues that are posted here and peoples replies back as if it's acceptable and no big deal. I always wonder if these same people are so indifferent to car manufactures' issues and always picture in my mind these same people as having a meltdown when their $20 toaster blows up in the first year.

One of my pet peeves is the Winnebago rusted and leaking windshield issue and in this forum, there are owners that give Winnebago a free pass of any responsibility of a faulty design and accept the $2,500-$4,000 repair costs.

It's funny that people will spend $100k - $400k on a motorhome and get quality that isn't much better than a Yugo, and accept it as 'that's just the way they are'.

Good thing that items like pace makers, iPads and my latte' machine are held to a much higher standard! -RT
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Old 06-19-2014, 11:04 AM   #27
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I understand that you don't want to post a list of 76 examples of poor QC, but could you post the top 5 worst problems you have encountered?

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Old 06-19-2014, 11:25 AM   #28
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The airplane vs motorhome subject is an interesting, albiet not really apples to apples, comparison.

If a SOB can stick her nose in this discussion, I just returned from a FMA rally where Fleetwood engineers were there for customer feedback. They admitted QAQC took a nosedive with the bankruptcy, losing machinery & experienced personnel in both engineering & manufacturing. It wasn't perfect prior either, but got much worse with the bankruptcy & the economic downturn of 2008-9. They're working hard to come back from that, but for FW, it's a long road back. I'm thinking a lot of it has to do with responsibility & pride in manufacturing - something that seems to get lacking with each passing generation. It would be nice if the dealers would do their part in inspecting & fixing issues when they receive a new RV instead of leaving it up to us to find the problems, but also discussed was the lack of qualified techs at dealerships to be able to do the inspections. All of which aren't acceptable excuses in my, or any buyer's eye, but just hard facts.

We purchased our 06 Bounder new & had a few issues the dealer fixed all under warranty, never had to go to the mfr. Our issues were no where near the quantity or severity buyers of newer models have had & reported here on the Forums. For FW, I expect QAQC to not return to pre-08 levels for quite a while yet.

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Old 06-19-2014, 01:06 PM   #29
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Smile

We have been motorhoming (all Class A, both gas and diesel) since 1985. We have had a number of manufacturers, with no big differences in results. I have concluded that a) most of the problems go away after the first year or so, and b) most of the problems are with "bought-in" items such as AC, slide-out mechanisms, leveling devices, etc. I would also observe that RV service people cause some of the problems by failing to understand the complaint, failing to understand the device under complaint, and just general incompetence. There are also a lot of problems "lost in translation" from the customer to the service writer to the service tech.
I have no solution to these problems, but, after experiencing all such problems many times, we still have a motorhome, which, by and large works well and gets us down the road.
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Old 06-19-2014, 01:26 PM   #30
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Quality is a mind set that must start at the top position in a manufacturing facility, no matter what the product.

Good quality is actually cheaper to provide than bad quality, the Motor-home industry is picking the wrong people to manage their plants. Blaming the workforce or giving the Quality Manager the chore of "controlling " rather than measuring it never gets the job done.
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Old 06-19-2014, 02:12 PM   #31
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Thats why I dont fly and my wife don't float if we can't drive there we don't go there!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 06-19-2014, 03:44 PM   #32
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One major difference between a Boing 747 and a Damon Intruder (The RV I know best).

Maintenance.

The 747 takes off, Flys, unloads, is swarmed by maintence types, then flys again

Not so my Intruder.. Though it's chief maintenace technician is a live in, I tend to not check things that appear to be working every time it "Lands". I do find problems when they crop up and fix 'em quickly though.
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Old 06-19-2014, 06:03 PM   #33
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hmmm... and what would be the cost of the motorhome built like an airplane?
When they put wings on them I'm done!
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Old 06-19-2014, 07:39 PM   #34
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Airplanes are built with redundant systems for various aircraft systems, therefore if a system fail, they have a back up system. I don't believe any motor home unless someone ordered something custom made is going to have a backup system for a failure.
Like I remembered from my military days.......if you fix something fix it right, cause they do not have gas station in the sky if something breaks.
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Old 06-19-2014, 07:59 PM   #35
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Quality is a mind set that must start at the top position in a manufacturing facility, no matter what the product.

Good quality is actually cheaper to provide than bad quality, the Motor-home industry is picking the wrong people to manage their plants. Blaming the workforce or giving the Quality Manager the chore of "controlling " rather than measuring it never gets the job done.

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Old 06-19-2014, 08:06 PM   #36
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Aircraft vs RV's

I've worked in both the aircraft and medical diagnostic equipment industries. If RV's were assembled to either of those standards and validated by the FAA or the FDA failures would be few and far between.
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Old 06-20-2014, 12:18 AM   #37
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Sorry couldn't resist this one. If RVs were built like Aircraft, they would look something like this. 😄
Click image for larger version

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Old 06-20-2014, 05:48 AM   #38
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THAT is just too cool.
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Old 06-20-2014, 06:08 AM   #39
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Here how I see it--an engineer designs it - assembly line builds it-- it comes off the line with a major fault-

Now if they shut down the line many employee out of work or getting paid for nothing!! So keep the line running putting a POS off the end of the line.

Consumer gets POS and has to fight to get it to work. Generally requiring a trip back to factory for repairs at our (consumer) expense.

And we keep buying them. My guess is they keep running POS off end of line till the economy tanks again and we quit buying them.

Russell
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Old 06-20-2014, 06:18 AM   #40
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THAT is just too cool.

That's the "Decoliner". It was on an episode of Jay Leno's Garage show a couple of years ago.

http://www.randygrubb.com/the-decoliner/

I love the videos taken from the upper deck driver's seat.
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