How to negotiate the purchase of a new Winnebago

Shirken3 · 10-21-2012, 04:56 PM

Hello,

My husband and I just returned from the local RV show and saw a nice 36ft 2013 Winnebago Journey we would like to make an offer on. The show price is $229,995. I would like to know from all the experts out there what the best way to go about this is to get the best deal I can. How much should I offer and what can I expect the dealer to come down to?
We do have a truck and 5th wheel trailer we could use as a trade in but don't need to.
Any advice you can give me would be appreciated.

Thank you

genesimmons · 10-21-2012, 05:12 PM

look around your area more and check prices before buying on a spur of the moment. might be better price or better mh

RickO · 10-21-2012, 05:29 PM

Hi and welcome to the forum.

Quote:

Originally Posted by genesimmons

look around your area more and check prices before buying on a spur of the moment. might be better price or better mh

I'll second this advice. It's too big a purchase to let yourself get caught up in the spur of the moment.

I'd suggest some variation on how I bought my new Winnie... and I wouldn't restrict my purchase to local dealers. Once I found a rig I really like on my local dealer's lot, I Googled the make, year and model. I got about 25 hits on dealers across the country that had one advertised.

I then sent emails to all of those dealers telling them I was in the market and asked for their "best price". Not surprising, many of them ignored me... a handful said to call them... but six replied with quotes that were in the area of 25% below MSRP.

I took those quotes to my local dealer and offered him 25% below MSRP. I ended up at about 23% below but got a deal on a tow bar and Brake Buddy. Knowing what I know now, I could have probably save another several thousand dollars but I was a newbie.

If I were you, I wouldn't hesitate to fly across the country to pick up a new coach if that's where you could save $8K or $10K. Your local dealer will tell you that you'll have a hard time getting warranty service if you don't buy from them.... but they all say that and in practice it's rarely a problem.

Best of luck

Rick

RVThere · 10-21-2012, 05:47 PM

I agree with Rick as knowledge is power.

I would also suggest you go through the brochure and make sure there are no options that you really want that may be missing from the show model. Spec out the rig you want and email that to any dealers in your area.

Be careful that dealers will substitute a rig they have that may have less options than you want. Suddenly you get a lower price from one dealer and think you are getting a steal when you realize some key options are missing.

DSL417 · 10-21-2012, 05:58 PM

I'd also take a look at other brands and floor plans. There a lot of options and different levels of amenities for different prices. Weigh what you intend to do. Weekend camping might point to a gas model whereas full time with over 10000 miles might point to a diesel pusher with a tag axle.

Your first good move is reading in here. Lots of idea, lots of information, but not to much to read to make a 2-300000K decision.

That said, good luck. Who knows, maybe we'll see you on the road soon.

mgtr · 10-21-2012, 06:51 PM

I have had a number of MHs over the years, and bought all but one of them from dealers fairly far away. The last three were from Lichtsinn in Forest City, IA, and we live in SC and FL. Happy with their prices, delivery, and service. No problems getting warranty service at any Camping World. Plus, I got to put the first 1,300 miles on them, not some unknown delivery guy.

amanda_h · 10-21-2012, 06:58 PM

If you've narrowed your choice down to the 2013 Journey 36m (an excellent choice, btw

), then determine the MSRP as it seems to be traditional in the RV buying circles that, as others have said, 25% off of MSRP is a good price in itself but if not, a good starting point for negotiations. When buying a car, it's usually advised to negotiate a dollar amount above or below the nebulous "invoice price" but in RV buying, it seems to be as a percentage off of MSRP.

Many dealers will provide the factory sticker on their website advertising. One of the more popular Winnebago dealers is Licthsinn Motors in Forest City Iowa and good prices can usually be found at that dealership merely because of their short distance from the Winnebago factory. They provide the window sticker on the units they have for sale on their website. I've attached the window sticker from a 36m that Litchsinn currently has for sale.

As you can see, the base MSRP without options and destination charges is $254,387. The unit described does have a list of options and you can compare that list to the list of options of the unit you are looking at as it will give you the MSRP (retail price) of those options for the one they have in stock.

Be sure to talk with the people at Lichtsinn too as they usually are very competitive. They may be able to get a unit with the exact same options and being so close to the factory, you'll know that you are getting a unit with very little mileage on it compared to one that thas been driven to a dealer on one coast or another.

And good plan to NOT trade in your fifth-wheel. Sell it on your own on your own time schedule or if you have a good consignment dealer in your area, sometimes you can do almost as good selling an RV on consignment (and it takes a lot of stress out of selling).

Good luck.

Wannabe · 10-21-2012, 08:30 PM

This late in the year I would offer no more that 30% off MSRP as a starting point. If you should decide to trade your current RV in, then you will quickly find out what the wholesale price is in the current market (not a bad thing to know).
As several have said if you can buy the Motorhome without trading, then you will do much better than wholesale. Don't forget to value any sales tax saving you would get from a trade. If this dealer won't work with you; then, believe me, many others will.
Many dealers that are distant from you will often reimburse you for your plane fare and pick you up at the airport. This can be a fun thing if you let it, and don't worry about being close to the selling dealer for service because you often will prefer going to the factory for the more complicated repairs. Good luck!

njs42 · 10-21-2012, 10:03 PM

You will not offend anyone by making a low offer. or by walking away. They will not sell it for any amount that does not make them money so take care of yourself and let them worry about themselves. 25% is not an unusual mark off and you may be able to do much better.

The time to fall in love with this MH is after you have made the best deal you can up to that time you are just dating.

Shop around it is a buyers market. And have fun.

Shirken3 · 10-21-2012, 11:59 PM

Thank you everyone for such great advice. It is extremely helpful.
I also have my eye on a 2010 Tiffin Phaeton from a private seller who is asking $161,000. How do I determine an appropriate price to offer for a previously owned RV from a private party?

Bug512 · 10-22-2012, 06:44 AM

If financing check the rates new vs. used. The lower interest on a new loan might make up for the higher cost of a newer unit.

Dogpatch · 10-22-2012, 07:12 AM

Firstly, I see you are from a truck and 5er looking at changing over to a coach.

My suggestion would be to rent one first and ensure you like the changeover. Nothing would be worse for you to make the change and commitment only to find that the new situation doesn't fit your comfort level or lifestyle.

cardiffman · 10-22-2012, 10:01 AM

Probably one of the worst experiences we will have as buyers is to be put in the grinder of offers and counter-offers at a dealership. I've been there and done that. ugggg! The trick is to literally wear you down until they win. And they almost always win. One way to avoid that is to determine what you will pay and tell them up front: "This is what I will pay and if you don't want that, I will shake hands and depart as friends" You will establish a clear relationship.

As to buying from an individual, you have some additional risk. You want to be sure to see the title first. Make sure it isn't compromised: lemon law or insurance damage or salvage. Also if the owner can't produce a title, you should be clear that your payment to them includes the name of their lender and states that payment will clear the balance.

There are some bad war stories of buyers giving money to individual sellers who can't clear the title with a payoff.

State Motor Vehicle laws protect the buyer from such events but have no effect on sales from individuals.

Good luck

Scooter · 10-22-2012, 03:19 PM

Good advice so far. It seems $266K MSRP is what some dealers are asking, A 25% discount would work out to about $200K.

cardiffman has a good point about working with a salesman. We bought ours (years ago, a new 2004 Winne 27C) via fax. Dealer faxed us invoice showing all standard items and options.

We faxed back a figure we thought would seal the deal. It did not. We came up a bit via fax and got the OK from the sales MANAGER, via fax.

No misunderstandings should occur via written faxes. Don't deal with a sales MAN.

grtharris · 10-22-2012, 03:37 PM

Here is a link to a copy of the 2013 Journey retail price list.
Great for looking at the option available.

http://giantrvonline.com/sales/pdf/W...209.24.12).pdf

f14av8r · 10-22-2012, 03:52 PM

Wherever you buy, make sure the dealer brings all the scheduled maintenance current before you take delivery. Your Freightliner chassis owners manual requires service at six months and at one year, REGARDLESS of mileage. You can get the chassis build date from Freightliner with the VIN. Very few dealers will do this required maintenance so you'll end up footing the bill when you drop in for your first maintenance visit. Also, be sure to check carefully for "lot rot" if the coach has been sitting on the dealers lot for awhile. We saw quite a few coaches that had bad cases of aluminum corrosion. They'll think your crazy but crawl up underneath that thing and have a look, especially at the engine and transmission on the diesel coach you are considering.

Good luck! You are definitely on the right track. The Winnebago Journey is a superb coach.

RickO · 10-22-2012, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scooter

Don't deal with a sales MAN.

But then who is going to promise you that the rig will get 15 MPG and you don't need any special license or experience to drive it???

Rick

Shirken3 · 10-23-2012, 03:56 PM

Thanks for all the great advice. I do have one other question:
What required maintenance in the years to come should I expect to pay for to maintain a Tiffin Phaeton or Winnebago Journey? I understand the cost is a big difference between a gas engine and a Diesel engine and since my husband is insistant on a diesel engine I would like to be prepared before I get shell shocked.

Thanks

f14av8r · 10-24-2012, 04:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shirken3

Thanks for all the great advice. I do have one other question:
What required maintenance in the years to come should I expect to pay for to maintain a Tiffin Phaeton or Winnebago Journey? I understand the cost is a big difference between a gas engine and a Diesel engine and since my husband is insistant on a diesel engine I would like to be prepared before I get shell shocked.

Thanks

I can speak to the maintenance on both my current coach - Winnebago Journey - and previous coach, a Gas V-10 Powered Georgie Boy Landau. You can read further if you like but I'll give you my bottom line up front. The costs listed are for the chassis (engine, drivetrain, control systems) and do not include coach (house on the back) items. A Diesel coach will run you approx $800 to $1000 a year for scheduled maintenance on the chassis. A gas coach should be less than half that amount.

Gas coaches are harder to work on but cheaper to maintain. Parts are less expensive and repair locations are more convenient. Cost are very similar to auto maintenance for a car with a gas engine. Tires are smaller, lighter, and less expensive. Same for batteries. Filters are much cheaper. Fluid capacities are smaller and cheaper.

Diesel coaches are much easier to work on. There are fewer places to have them worked on though. You'll generally be dealing with truck shops. One important question to ask your dealer is if they will service your chassis themselves or if they farm out the work to a truck shop. Access to practically every area of the engine and running gear is much improved over a gas coach. There are more parts to replace during scheduled maintenance and they are more expensive. You'll spend several hundred dollars on a full set of filters (including air) - uninstalled. There are more batteries and they are big and expensive. There are very large volumes of liquids that must be replaced regularly. Maintaining the air system on a diesel is important and can be expensive. You'll typically get a much better generator (diesel) which will run forever but will require regular maintenance as well. I don't think generator maintenance is much different between gas and diesel and my diesel generator is much easier to service than was my gas generator, primarily because of the improved access.

Your cost will be highly dependent on what you are willing and capable of doing yourself. Educating yourself on the chassis is important, particularly for a Diesel Coach. Camp Freightliner is an absolute must if your coach is on a Freightliner chassis. Other manufacturers may have similar owner education programs available. Changing the filters / fluids on a diesel isn't hard if you have the right place and equipment to handle the fluids. Access is easy as I said but you can make a mess in a big hurry if you aren't ready for the GALLONS of fluid that will be released. Lubing the chassis yourself is easy if you know where the connections are and use an air-powered grease gun (cheap at harbor freight). Lubing is the only service I typically do myself.

One final thought. When you buy your coach include having a four wheel alignment in the deal. The alignment should be performed AFTER you have the coach fully loaded and have put a few hundred miles on the chassis. This has the potential to really improve your coaches ride / drive and most chassis manufacturers recommend this be done. They set the alignment up on the bare chassis when it leaves their factory but all the work that goes into putting the coach on top can significantly change the alignment, even on a heavy duty diesel chassis. Mine was so far off they had to break a couple of welds and actually shift the rear axle. Fortunately, that was done under warranty at the Freightliner Service Center in Gafney (another place every Freightliner owner should visit.)

Hope that helps!

Oscar Mike · 10-24-2012, 05:42 AM

We are just completing our first motor home purchase. It took us more than 6-months to find a deal that palatable. We opted for close-out deals, and found a "new" 2010 34' Bounder at 42% under MSRP. We got all of the warranties that comes with a spanking new unit, and we are opting for the 7-year extended warranty. The tires have about 4 and a half years left on them, we ran a "carfax" and discovered that the chassis is a 2011 model.
What I learned in dealing with RV Dealers is to walk away, not once, or twice, but three or more times. On average every dealer knocked 20% off the price on the first go round. Be very patient and get the whole 25% off of MSRP.