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Old 08-15-2021, 07:06 AM   #21
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When switching to lithium it is more than the cost of the batteries even though they have dropped significantly this year and I hope they will continue to fall. There is the cost of a new Li charger with a higher capacity to take advantage of Li's faster charging which minimizes generator run time. Also the cost of an Li capable BIM to limit alternator current.

So all in all for me to change from my current two 100 Ah AGMs, it would cost about $800 for the batteries and $300 each for the charger and BIM, so about $1400.

If I needed 200 usable (I think this is the more appropriate word than useful) amp hours I would do it. But I don't. I can get by fine for four nights of 25-30 amp hours daily use while boondocking given that I don't have a compressor fridge, don't watch TV or use other high amp consuming devices.

David
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Old 08-15-2021, 07:30 AM   #22
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Sounds like the right set up for you David.
I didn’t consider lithium charger cost incremental because I wanted an inverter/charger anyway, and avoided cost of a transfer switch. And, I have no need for a BIM. Unfortunately, my MM came equipped with a compressor fridge, so my daily ah consumption while boondocking is likely higher than yours.
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Old 08-15-2021, 07:33 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marine359 View Post
In most discussions about LiFePo4 vrs AGM and FLA, people get too hung up on initial purchase price, when in actuality the price delta is not that great (I paid only $800 for 170ah American made) And considering many have paid more than $100k for their rig, it’s really just pocket change by comparison. What most people are missing are the other great features you get with a quality LiFePo4. Here’s why I’m so happy about having made the switch.

Less than 1/3 the weight of the same ah capacity. Matters mostly to TT owners.
Charge from 30% to 100% in less than 2 hrs; that’s 25% of the time for FLA. if you’re boondocking, that’s huge in reducing the time, noise, and fuel cost of running a generator to recharge. My generator fuel savings will pay for the LiFePo4/AGM initial cost delta in less than 2 years.
Will accept solar charge amperage no matter the SOC.
Easy to remove and carry inside for the winter.
A BMS which will protect the battery by shutting down at low voltage, low temp, or over voltage.
Safe to mount inside, where it’s temperature controlled.

After camping with LiFePo4 for the last 9 months, now I feel it would have been crazy not to switch. Now I don’t even think about my batteries. It’s just a bucket that occasionally I have to throw power at. For me, it’s freedom, and adding more solar will mean even more freedom. If you don’t need this freedom because you have hookups most of the time, you don’t need LiFePo4 or AGM.
For me if you read my post above, based on all of the merits, features and shortcomings to what I need and what I don't want. Today FLA and Lithium are NOT what we want price notwithstanding.

Some use their RVs and Campers in different ways. You seem to camp i.e. boondock a lot and have solar your needs may be different.

Some never use their generators, and I am just the opposite. I have EC-30 AGS that I just love to play with on every trip no matter where I go; it is set for AUTO. When we boondock we will ALWAYS run the genset for AC; if for no other reason at least 2 hours a day, therefore; our batteries are always fully charged by 8:00 PM regardless of weather. With our AGMs and our actual usage for Fridge, TVs and lights; it NEVER get below 50% SOC thus far (4 months have not had a need to recharge overnight)

Where price comes into play for some is beyond just the actual cost of batteries, but the conversion cost that they rig may require. As you state if a person may be willing to pay $100k for a rig, but it is because they see the benefit or value. RVers buy all types of Rigs to fit their needs. Batteries are the same way. I see nothing wrong with the next guys want a TT or that $400k Diesel Pusher, if both were giving to me today for free, I would not want ( well I would take to sell to get the money) but you get the point. Today, there is no overall benefit or value for me in FLA or Lithium.

FWIW, My OEM FLAs still worked and were still under warranty, I just could NOT take the maintenance any more in my new rig. It was just a hot mess and I was part of the problem improperly watering. But $500 and I fixed it 5 to 6 years from now when I need new batteries, I suspect it may be Lithiums depending on what else is needed to be changed out in my rig at the time?, but I also expect the low temp issue to be resolved. If NOT; unless I buy a new coach with Lithium designed in, I will never own a RV with Lithium batteries.

In the meantime, the upgrade from FLA to True Deep Cycle AGMs for $500 is by far the best $ for $ investment I have made on my rig. The Onan EC-30 is the other. Like you I never have to worry about batteries, and I never go below 12.5 vdc. Nothing else needed.

With regard to costs, I bought a new RV with a new Onan 5500 that was not installed as a free option. It would be crazy to not use, or even crazier to invest in a full fledged Solar System to replace it when I don't need to. When / if Winnebago designs a similar 30' coach that does what I need, has all Solar and Lithium batteries, I may get in that line at the back, because I will NOT be first
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Old 08-15-2021, 07:40 AM   #24
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Right On DK.
One size shoe does not fit all. If I had a MH, I’d probably opt for AGM.
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Old 08-15-2021, 08:47 AM   #25
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I installed a battery watering system on my 6V batteries that greatly simplifies the watering task, especially if access is tight. It takes maybe 2 min at the most with no fuss or muss and no need to see if the batteries are full:

https://www.amazon.com/Flow-Rite-RV2...omotive&sr=1-3

You'll also want to order the filling kit:

https://www.amazon.com/Flow-Rite-Fil...04RDSQ2K&psc=1

I initially wondered why the filling kit wasn't included until I realized that some purchasers have more than one set of 6V batteries but only need one filling kit.

To use, you simply attach the filling hose, put the free end into a container of distilled water, pump the bulb until it's hard, disconnect, empty what's left in the filling hose and you're done.
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Old 08-15-2021, 09:28 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidM View Post
When switching to lithium it is more than the cost of the batteries even though they have dropped significantly this year and I hope they will continue to fall. There is the cost of a new Li charger with a higher capacity to take advantage of Li's faster charging which minimizes generator run time. Also the cost of an Li capable BIM to limit alternator current.

So all in all for me to change from my current two 100 Ah AGMs, it would cost about $800 for the batteries and $300 each for the charger and BIM, so about $1400.

If I needed 200 usable (I think this is the more appropriate word than useful) amp hours I would do it. But I don't. I can get by fine for four nights of 25-30 amp hours daily use while boondocking given that I don't have a compressor fridge, don't watch TV or use other high amp consuming devices.

David
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobC View Post
I installed a battery watering system on my 6V batteries that greatly simplifies the watering task, especially if access is tight. It takes maybe 2 min at the most with no fuss or muss and no need to see if the batteries are full:

https://www.amazon.com/Flow-Rite-RV2...omotive&sr=1-3

You'll also want to order the filling kit:

https://www.amazon.com/Flow-Rite-Fil...04RDSQ2K&psc=1

I initially wondered why the filling kit wasn't included until I realized that some purchasers have more than one set of 6V batteries but only need one filling kit.

To use, you simply attach the filling hose, put the free end into a container of distilled water, pump the bulb until it's hard, disconnect, empty what's left in the filling hose and you're done.
I looked at that, several other systems along with getting the knucklehead RV owner some training , but at the end of the day, even with potential for improvement; the sulfating and corrosion would not go away. I grew impatient with the rust forming under the bottom of the batteries and every time I cleaned getting the same rust on the concrete

I will NEVER ever buy at will a FLA as replacement batteries. With that said; I still have the FLA as Chassis battery. It never corrodes, or rust; and I never touch it nor will I. When it dies based on how long it may last; I may make an exception and buy the Ford OEM battery again as it is approaching 3 years now with no issues. If it ever becomes an issue; I will get an AGM for it with equivalent CCA. But quite frankly if it makes 4 or 5 years I will buy another just like it and call it a day.
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Old 08-15-2021, 10:09 AM   #27
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I just replaced the battery in one of my cars and I couldn't justify the incremental cost of AGM over sealed lead acid, even factoring in the longer guarantee. My old one was five years old.

Starting batteries are one thing, house batteries are a different animal altogether.
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Old 08-15-2021, 04:48 PM   #28
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The biggest different between starting and deep cycle batteries are the plates (as mentioned). Fewer very thick plates = deep cycle. Many thin sintered plates (think much greater surface area) = starting. Most of the hybrid "dual purpose" batteries I am familiar with, alternate thick and thin plates. I've never heard of them performing very well. If you want a deep cycle battery buy one (same with starting batteries). The exception to this is the AGM. I use them for everything.
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Old 08-25-2021, 12:38 PM   #29
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House Batteries

Was wondering if you replaced your batteries and what you settled on.
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