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Old 12-11-2021, 08:05 AM   #1
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Generators banned in CA by 2028

Please no politics! This is info only for those potentially buying a new RV in a couple years in CA.

In 2024 they need to meet more stringent air quality requirements, and in 2028 the need to be zero emission.

I plan on replacing my RV in 2024 so this will impact me and will be following it closely.

https://www.rvtravel.com/breaking-ne...ov3eEdDg%3D%3D
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Old 12-11-2021, 10:24 AM   #2
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Here's a new RV Miles news video released today. It covers this issue and an issue with the new Winnebago EKKO:

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Old 12-11-2021, 03:06 PM   #3
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Propane generators ARE NOT effected by the new regulations. Existing generators are grandfathered. Much to do about nothing.
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Old 12-11-2021, 06:13 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by creativepart View Post
Here's a new RV Miles news video released today. It covers this issue and an issue with the new Winnebago EKKO:

Thanks for the link!
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Old 12-11-2021, 06:24 PM   #5
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Propane generators ARE NOT effected by the new regulations. Existing generators are grandfathered. Much to do about nothing.
That works if you want to buy a propane generator or will not be buying one in 2024. In my case, it’s potentially a big deal since I will be in the market for a new rig in 2024 with either a gas or diesel generator. Hopefully something good happens before then to give RV manufacturers more flexibility.
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Old 12-11-2021, 06:55 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by macnut View Post
That works if you want to buy a propane generator or will not be buying one in 2024. In my case, it’s potentially a big deal since I will be in the market for a new rig in 2024 with either a gas or diesel generator. Hopefully something good happens before then to give RV manufacturers more flexibility.
A lot of RVS already have a propane generator option. Onan already provides the propane generators. I'm sure that EVERY RV manufacturer will be installing propane powered generators in their 2024 RVS delivered in California . An added advantage to propane generators is that they run cleaner and have an extended service interval. No fuel filter, extended oil changes, longer spark plug life and anticipated longer engine life. Nearly ALL RV currently have propane tanks and adding a larger tank would probably not be an issue on most RVs.
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Old 12-11-2021, 07:22 PM   #7
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Thanks for the info. I’ve never had a propane generator and was thinking I’d go all electric and get rid of propane, but that may be the direction. Good to hear there are positives to using propane. We’ll see.
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Old 12-11-2021, 07:52 PM   #8
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Old 12-12-2021, 06:51 AM   #9
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Assuming the video is correct in saying the regulations are primarily aimed at lawn care equipment, I wonder if this is a case of unintended consequences and the details might be tweaked with respect to RV generators. Similarly, I can't imagine that permanently mounted household emergency generators emit that much pollution over the course of a year.

I wonder if a Diesel generator on a gasoline powered RV would be practical. How big of a Diesel tank would you need for a generator? Personally I have no idea as to how much propane a generator uses but filling a small Diesel tank would be much more convenient than topping off a propane tank even with a larger propane tank.
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Old 12-12-2021, 11:51 AM   #10
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I can envision advancements in technology like the pro power onboard currently available in the 2021 Ford F-150 Powerboost and EVs that would make this law less of an issue for landscapers and campers by the time it takes effect.
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Old 12-12-2021, 03:58 PM   #11
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This is something that comes up prett5y often on service trucks where a gas engine is a safety item to add/ retrofit to a truck, so converting the gas gen to propane is often the logical way to go as a simple item.
For user, the propane has several advantages when dealing with it in a closed area where fumes can be a propblem.
For Rv use, I see no future that does away with having propane onboard so the small amount of extra for the generator is not anything to worry.
On the service trucks I have been around and needed to add a small generator, gasoline is a real problem to fit extra tanks and fittings and still pass safety, so it has been very simpe to just convert a standard gas gen to propane and that leaves it portable but still safe by using a 10-20 pound tank which can be stored much safer and not go bad as gas does.
Just one of the smaller things that will need changes over time. For those who are wanting to use gas now, going with a dual fuel will let you have both gas now and propane when it fits better?
When adding a portable generator for power failures, I found going dual was fine with me as I can easily store several 20 pound tanks that stay usable for years versus the same equivilent of use in gas which goes bad really too quick to store a large amount. The idea of having several tanks of gas stored in an outside shed versus the propane which doesn't gas off or sludge up made it a simple decision.
Considering the small difference in price, dual seemed to give me far more options. When needing power and not certain of which will be more handy and available to get more made the final piece of the puzzle.
The newer solid state batteries will almost certainly be the final nail for gasoline power and it is now in the small battery realm before expected to move into car power size batteries in 2026, if I remember correctly.

Article about the solid state:
https://techcrunch.com/2021/12/09/so...-market-debut/
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Old 12-13-2021, 10:25 AM   #12
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In the Vista, the generator is plumbed into the gas tank, and will run unless the gas is below 1/4 tank. I guess with the new law, the generators will need to be a different fossil fuel, or a large battery to replace. If propane, the big difference would be the need for a much larger propane tank to get the same capabilities. In the extreme, you would need the specific energy of 3/4 tank of gas, or 60 gallons. But realistically I'd never run the generator for that long.

The question is will the manufacturers just stop selling certain models in the state, instead of making them compliant?
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Old 12-13-2021, 10:52 AM   #13
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Hopefully they will change the law to exempt bolted in generators in RV’s just as they have exempted bolted in generators in homes.
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Old 12-13-2021, 11:15 AM   #14
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I would first guess that the total polution from RV generators will be such a small portion that it is not going to be a big issue when compared to the number of other small engines in the area.
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Old 12-14-2021, 08:02 AM   #15
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I certainly won't miss the sound of gas powered leaf blowers in my neighborhood.
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Old 12-15-2021, 04:31 PM   #16
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Here’s an update. Looks like Propane IS included in the ban, but not diesel. However, feedback from CA residents is getting some attention, so the state has ordered a readiness assessment for alternatives in 2025 and may change the law if there are not good alternatives. I guess we’ll have to stay tuned.

https://youtu.be/5VE4DXIlelY
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Old 12-15-2021, 04:39 PM   #17
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No propane, then complain!
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Old 12-15-2021, 10:11 PM   #18
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Usually the LPG Versions of the Gasoline generators have a bit less capacity for example 2,500 watts LP compared to 2,800 watts Gasoline. At half load the 2,500 LP will be using 1.3 lbs of propane per hour which is a lot when your talking about the carry capacity of a coach that typically would carry a generator that small while at full load your looking at 2.5 lbs per hour propane consumption which is huge. A typical 5,500 watt LP generator could use 3.3 lbs or LP per hour at half load and end up using 1/3 to 1/2 or more of your total available propane supply in 1 day running at just half load or all the propane at higher loads. A day at the beach could for example use up 30 to 50 lbs of your 80 lbs of available propane contained in whats considered a 100 lb tank. Propane would have to be more readily available at filling station type venues for this to become the norm since you could be filling up every day or two unless you doubled or tripled your LP tank capacity which for most is not physically going to be possible.

See: https://www.cummins.com/sites/defaul.../0983-0101.pdf

Note that there is no extended oil and filter change schedule listed for the propane version of the 5,500.

Having an LPG Generator generally has been a deal breaker for me since I boon dock a lot and use my coach for disaster relief in areas where a working propane station might not be available for many days so it would require regular drive outs to find more in both situations.

I know a lot of people say that an LP generator is more efficient however 3.3 lbs per hour of more costly and more difficult to acquire liquid propane for a 5,500 watt generator running at half load is not really that efficient and with it having the exact same oil change schedule as the gasoline version does not show any savings there either. The data sheets and service manuals such as the one I posted above are to my eye really not showing this great comparative economy when running on propane especially when you consider how little propane you actually get even in a 100 or 120 lb tank such as is found in most Class A Motor Homes.

In stationary applications where you can get an on-site 300 lb or larger propane tank with municipal delivery or be piped into a municipal natural gas system is another matter and somewhat more workable.
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Old 12-16-2021, 09:40 AM   #19
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What jumped out to me, in the article was:
"The ban on sales will only apply to new generators. Owners of older engines will be permitted to continue using their existing equipment."
As to the Zero emissions, that would seem an improbable objective. I guess we'll see.
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Old 12-16-2021, 11:21 AM   #20
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What jumped out to me, in the article was:
"The ban on sales will only apply to new generators. Owners of older engines will be permitted to continue using their existing equipment."
As to the Zero emissions, that would seem an improbable objective. I guess we'll see.
Hopefully this includes sales of pre-owned RVs with generators.
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